You can solo most AVs with some decent accuracy enhancement. Most of them don't have any defense, and they're your level, so they're easy to hit. I like a lot of to hit and accuracy, but that's for fighting uplevel, not for AVs.
"That's because Werner can't do maths." - BunnyAnomaly
"Four hours in, and I was no longer making mistakes, no longer detoggling. I was a machine." - Werner
Videos of Other Stupid Scrapper Tricks
Would I be able to pull it off with the +acc from scirocco's derv/c'ing impact (and later on purples) without losing too much defense from say kinetic combat, if I wanna fight uplevel?
Well, let's see. For the sake of argument, I'll look at a Blinding Feint -> Attack Vitals build with Crushing Impacts in Blinding Feint and Vengeful Slice, Scirocco's in Sweeping Strike, and Kinetic Combat plus an Accuracy IO in Ablating Strike. Stick a Kismet unique in Indomitable Will. Your chance to hit +3s will be capped at 95%, and your chance to hit +4s will be between 85% and 88% depending on the attack. That's probably good enough for almost anything.
I personally target 95% or higher to hit +4s. If you really want that extra oomph, it could be easily accomplished by adding Tactics, Focused Accuracy, or another 20-30% global accuracy (too lazy to calculate exact number for a hypothetical).
So yeah, you should be fine.
"That's because Werner can't do maths." - BunnyAnomaly
"Four hours in, and I was no longer making mistakes, no longer detoggling. I was a machine." - Werner
Videos of Other Stupid Scrapper Tricks
K thanks 
Oh! And that's completely neglecting the bonus from Blinding Feint itself. So once that hits, you'll be capped at 95% against +4s. You don't need Tactics or Focused Accuracy even for that.
"That's because Werner can't do maths." - BunnyAnomaly
"Four hours in, and I was no longer making mistakes, no longer detoggling. I was a machine." - Werner
Videos of Other Stupid Scrapper Tricks
great to hear - means I got both combos so I can still dish out that extra aoe dmg & KD, tough/weave & be able to hit +4s
I'm actually wondering - what'd be the least needed power?
- Strength of Will
- Focused Acc
- Conserve Power
I only got space for 2/3 & all seem useful
Quote:
Are you endurance sustainable without using CP (possibly by turning off FA, which shouldn't be needed at all times, especially once you've gotten FU active)? If you are, then ditch CP. If you aren't, ditch SoW. In an IO build, it's less than useful since you'll already be incredibly hardy by virtue of set bonuses and sheer damage recovery.
|
Originally Posted by dume
I'm actually wondering - what'd be the least needed power?
- Strength of Will - Focused Acc - Conserve Power I only got space for 2/3 & all seem useful |
Out of the three, I'd get rid of FA. 8% tohit (fully slotted) isn't so hot on a DB as you're going to run with 1 BF on at all times and 2 for a few of your attacks, plus eventually a kismet.
CP is so nice for AV soloing I can't imagine living without. The sacrifices needed to make a chain sustainable without it are just too much, lacking any mitigation in the primary you can't really afford to waste many slots for endurance management in my opinion (after the usuals like miracle, numina, perf shifter procs).
SoW is also big, it was the difference between either "not able to solo an AV at all" and "possible in a few tries" or "possible in a few attempts" and "win on the first try" on my own DB/WP. It's the only active mitigation WP gets, and when things start going south (and they will if you don't run a softcapped build) you really want the added resistance to take the edge off you.
Quote:
thanks|
Originally Posted by Nihilii
SoW is also big, it was the difference between either "not able to solo an AV at all" and "possible in a few tries" or "possible in a few attempts" and "win on the first try" on my own DB/WP. It's the only active mitigation WP gets, and when things start going south (and they will if you don't run a softcapped build) you really want the added resistance to take the edge off you. |
I thought of removing SoW at first, but I did some EBs & AVs in architect to see how I'd fare (keep in mind I'm lvl 40 atm with no tough/weave or CP) And SoW saved my as numerous of times especially against AVs with -acc it kept me long enough alive. Then again one could start the argument I'd be better off with FA - but atm another end toggle is scaring me a bit
I can't say for sure without checking endurance consumption, but chances are that I'd skip Focused Accuracy.
"That's because Werner can't do maths." - BunnyAnomaly
"Four hours in, and I was no longer making mistakes, no longer detoggling. I was a machine." - Werner
Videos of Other Stupid Scrapper Tricks
The great thing about the BF -> AV chain is that it only needs 127% recharge on BF, 108% recharge on SS, and 96% on VS (Ablating needs a negligible 8%). With good slotting that's only around 30-35% global recharge... easy to get on just about any build. You'll end up with 130 DPS or so not counting procs or Achilles debuffs, which is middle of the road for Scrapper chains but enough to take on an AV.
While BF -> SS -> AS -> SS is far higher DPS I'm not sure why that matters for an AV build. You can't make that chain seamless solo, and you can't make it anywhere close to seamless and still have the defense you need for AVs unless you are /SR. DB/SR with lots of purples and LotGs could make a very deadly Dual Blades build but for any other secondary you won't get anywhere near 273% recharge even with Hasten without sacrificing too much defense. I'd say for non-/SR builds go with BF->AV, grab 35% or so global recharge, and use the rest of the build to softcap and toss in things like +HP, +regen, and +recovery.
(Hmmm... this makes me want to trick out my DB/SR Brute to use that attack chain. Double stacked BF, stacked -resist procs, and Fury would be quite a sight. Too bad I'm a couple billion short of what I'd need to do it. 
)
Cascade, level 50 Blaster (NRG/NRG since before it was cool)
Mechmeister, level 50 Bots / Traps MM
FAR too many non-50 alts to name
[u]Arcs[u]
The Scavenger Hunt: 187076
The Instant Lair Delivery Service: 206636
I agree. Don't even consider the two top DPS chains unless you're Super Reflexes and very rich, and even then, weigh them carefully. Using my DPS comparison template build, the Blinding Feint -> Attack Vitals chain still pulls off 214 DPS, and that's without any specific optimizations for that chain (the template has WAY more recharge than needed for it). I don't think that's far enough off the 238 DPS of the top chain to sacrifice your entire build for it.
Unless I was specifically making a DPS Super Reflexes build, I would definitely use the Blinding Feint -> Attack Vitals chain.
"That's because Werner can't do maths." - BunnyAnomaly
"Four hours in, and I was no longer making mistakes, no longer detoggling. I was a machine." - Werner
Videos of Other Stupid Scrapper Tricks
Quote:
It's a bit higher than that, around the 150-160 DPS range before procs.
| You'll end up with 130 DPS or so not counting procs or Achilles debuffs, which is middle of the road for Scrapper chains but enough to take on an AV. |
What sets are generally good for slotting into the toggles for WP(+tough and weave). I'm working the BF+AV+PS chain now, and will eventually get it down to BF+AV, but I'm not sure what to slot in the toggles. I've got decent resources, but probably won't be dropping the inf for PVP IOs unless they come way down(the only one I'm considering is the chance for -res proc for Sweeping Strike). Any help would be appreciated, I'm not too concerned with Soft Capping as I rarely solo, but it would certainly be easier for me, as I duo a lot with an Empath who keeps me buffed with Fort and AB.
Quote:
I'm curious why you think there are that many sacrifices to make the attack chain sustainable? */WP is already packing QR, and the OP is going for Fitness and Body Mastery. He shouldn't have any problems with endurance, considering all of the passive +end he's going to be pulling in. He's not running Spines/Invinc or MA/Dark. He's running DB/WP. Endurance sustainability is pretty much a foregone conclusion once he nabs the passive accolades and the Perf Shifter procs, not to mention the fact that he should be getting respectable amounts of end redux slotting tangentially when slotting up his attacks. Going overkill on endurance won't allow him to do anything more. It would just going to sit there doing nothing.
|
Originally Posted by Nihilii
CP is so nice for AV soloing I can't imagine living without. The sacrifices needed to make a chain sustainable without it are just too much, lacking any mitigation in the primary you can't really afford to waste many slots for endurance management in my opinion (after the usuals like miracle, numina, perf shifter procs).
|
Quote:
I don't *think* there are that many sacrifices to make the attack chain sustainable. I *know* it.| I'm curious why you think there are that many sacrifices to make the attack chain sustainable? |
I've had a DB/WP at 50, with numina, miracle, both perf shifter procs, some end slotting in attacks. It couldn't solo AVs without CP. Making it able to solo AVs without CP would have required even more sacrifices.
Quote:
And I know that the sacrifices aren't there, especially with the additional benefits of Physical Perfection. CP isn't nearly as necessary as you seem to be trying to make it, especially with the advent of Physical Perfection and the ability to super-slot the endurance recovery capabilities of the procs thanks to the presence of End Mod IOs within it.|
Originally Posted by Nihilii
I don't *think* there are that many sacrifices to make the attack chain sustainable. I *know* it.
I've had a DB/WP at 50, with numina, miracle, both perf shifter procs, some end slotting in attacks. It couldn't solo AVs without CP. Making it able to solo AVs without CP would have required even more sacrifices. |
With Stamina (Perf Shifter proc, Perf Shifter End Mod, common End Mod), QR (same as Stamina), Physical Perfection (Numina proc, Miracle Proc, Perf Shifter proc, Perf Shifter End Mod, common End Mod), and the passive +end accolades, you will generate 5.26 end/sec. Running all of the */WP toggles, the Fighting pool, and CJ would cost 1.55 end/sec without any end redux slotting. The BF>AV attack string would cost another 3.91 end/sec. That's a total of 5.46 end/sec without any endurance reduction anywhere. You'd be able to run for ~550 seconds before you run out of endurance. With 150 DPS, that's more than enough time to defeat an AV (~30000 damage overcoming regeneration). Endurance consumption for DB/WP is not an issue any more, if it was ever a major issue before.
Quote:
To overall succeed in AV soloing, I disagree on skipping Conserve Power. Assuming 150 DPS, that's practically equivalent to soloing an AV (with no resistances) in 507 seconds (28272 / 507 + 94.24 = 150.003). Despite the remainder of 43 seconds, it's still deprived of the ability to solo other AV's with resistances.
|
Originally Posted by Umbral
And I know that the sacrifices aren't there, especially with the additional benefits of Physical Perfection. CP isn't nearly as necessary as you seem to be trying to make it, especially with the advent of Physical Perfection and the ability to super-slot the endurance recovery capabilities of the procs thanks to the presence of End Mod IOs within it.
With Stamina (Perf Shifter proc, Perf Shifter End Mod, common End Mod), QR (same as Stamina), Physical Perfection (Numina proc, Miracle Proc, Perf Shifter proc, Perf Shifter End Mod, common End Mod), and the passive +end accolades, you will generate 5.26 end/sec. Running all of the */WP toggles, the Fighting pool, and CJ would cost 1.55 end/sec without any end redux slotting. The BF>AV attack string would cost another 3.91 end/sec. That's a total of 5.46 end/sec without any endurance reduction anywhere. You'd be able to run for ~550 seconds before you run out of endurance. With 150 DPS, that's more than enough time to defeat an AV (~30000 damage overcoming regeneration). Endurance consumption for DB/WP is not an issue any more, if it was ever a major issue before. |
Quote:
Excuse me for butting in but that's very much the case with your build that you posted not long ago. Which is a nice build, very similar to someone elses I know but that's not the only way to build.
|
Originally Posted by Nihilii
I don't *think* there are that many sacrifices to make the attack chain sustainable. I *know* it.
I've had a DB/WP at 50, with numina, miracle, both perf shifter procs, some end slotting in attacks. It couldn't solo AVs without CP. Making it able to solo AVs without CP would have required even more sacrifices. |
lol I was set on CP with alot +acc from other sets that aren't too expensive untill I reach the uberexpensive IO sets
Now umbral made me go haywire 
Quote:
Hmmm... you're right, I screwed up on the Blinding Feint buff. With around 152 DPS and the ability to slot an Achilles' proc I'm not sure why DB isn't more popular... that's higher DPS than any other Scrapper primary but Fire for moderate recharge builds (unless there's an odd attack chain I've not found, most primaries seem to run in the 130-140 DPS range without procs or extreme recharge) and probably pretty close to even the high recharge chains. In fact, it's slightly better than the mythical Headsplitter -> Headsplitter chain. Maybe it's because DB can't be used with Shield and has lower mitigation than some other sets? |
Originally Posted by Nihilii
It's a bit higher than that, around the 150-160 DPS range before procs.
|
As for endurance problems, with Stamina, QR, and Physical Perfection plus decent endurance reduction slotting I'm not sure you'd even need the recovery uniques. That's assuming you only run the WP toggles, CJ, Tough, and Weave... if you add Focused Accuracy you'll probably want the uniques and maybe Conserve Power but I can't see any need for FA with Blinding Feint and a 6% to-hit IO unless you like playing with +4s.
Cascade, level 50 Blaster (NRG/NRG since before it was cool)
Mechmeister, level 50 Bots / Traps MM
FAR too many non-50 alts to name
[u]Arcs[u]
The Scavenger Hunt: 187076
The Instant Lair Delivery Service: 206636
Quote:
Werner, what's your attack chain?| Well, OK. Here's my Katana/Dark. As the sig says, "coming soon". I'm still assembling all the IOs, so I don't yet have any AVs under my belt, but it should be able to handle several at once. Main weakness is defense debuffs. It's not an AV-specific build, though. Too little DPS for it to go quickly, wasted AoE damage, wasted fear, and so on. Just a general-purpose build. |
EDIT: Forget about it, Stryker.
Quote:
Keep in mind, Dual Blades was introduced in i11 whereas Shield Defense was introduced in i13.
|
Originally Posted by StrykerX
Maybe it's because DB can't be used with Shield and has lower mitigation than some other sets?
|
Quote:
You're forgetting that the 550 second endurance period was without any end redux. Getting the equivalent of a single end redux IO in each power (which is what most builds tend to manage on average) would reduce the costs down to 3.83 end/sec, which would give you 1.43 end/sec active endurance gain to play around with for additional toggles.
|
Originally Posted by BlazingBlue
To overall succeed in AV soloing, I disagree on skipping Conserve Power. Assuming 150 DPS, that's practically equivalent to soloing an AV (with no resistances) in 507 seconds (28272 / 507 + 94.24 = 150.003). Despite the remainder of 43 seconds, it's still deprived of the ability to solo other AV's with resistances.
|
hmm i'm wondering - could I get by soloing AVs without focused accuracy? that way I can keep my sweep combo,add tough/weave and have conserve power