Help ? Best use of architecht tickets redside
By
Adeon Hawkwood,
Posted on: 2009-10-25 10:52 in The Market and Inventions
Best use for tickets imho always is bronze 10-14 for the -KB IOs, Reg Tissue, Steadfast +Def and Kismet +Acc.
Well seeing as the self professed altruists of the market haven't seen fit to help, I guess the man who takes a dim view of people gets to.
There are three factors that determine my use of tickets they may be able to help you use yours better.
1. How many tickets do I have ?
2. Am I willing to take a chance
3. How much time do I want to spend on the effort ?
If you take a look at the bronze rolls in the low level range there are a few good ones
Kismet +6
regen tissue +regen
steadfast +def
steadfast KB
2 basiliks gaze pieces
2 eradication pieces
Karma KB
Thats from a field of 149 so it would look like you have a about a 1 in 15 chance. The problem is its not a uniform distribution all except the steadfast and the karmas are rare and occur 1/5th as often the uncommons. So putting it another way you have a 20/745 chance of getting something good. So taking that and looking at the competition and making the completely wrong assumption you will get one once every 37.5 rolls and combing your salvage sale price of 3500/ticket. You need to male about 7.8 million off the rolls for it to be profitable.
Thats really not to likely and if someone argues that you can do it by crafting well you can just buy the recipes and craft them
Thank you both the replies are appreciated.
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I occasionally use random rolls with spare or small accumulations (20 a shot) of merits, but seldom if ever with tickets. Those, I save and use to buy rare and uncommon salvage that I am out of stock with, so I can craft the merit rolled SOs for use or sale. I always craft them rather than selling the recipe; selling recipes scatters the inf among several characters, while crafting them lets them be sold by my banker character.
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Originally Posted by B_L_Angel
Hi there, I know this has been likely asked and answered before but I couldn't find it, So I hope no one minds if I ask it again.
What are the good uses of Tickets for redside ? |
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I don't understand why anyone would waste tickets on salvage, unless they were allergic to making money.
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Originally Posted by Heraclea
I occasionally use random rolls with spare or small accumulations (20 a shot) of merits, but seldom if ever with tickets. Those, I save and use to buy rare and uncommon salvage that I am out of stock with, so I can craft the merit rolled SOs for use or sale.
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Would you like to elaborate ?
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Originally Posted by Nethergoat
I don't understand why anyone would waste tickets on salvage, unless they were allergic to making money.
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Bronze recipe roll 60-75 tickets
Rare Salvage 540 tickets (or 7-9 bronze rolls)
Over any sort of reasonable timeframe for averaging to occur, bronze rolls will consistently outperform the rare salvage.
Using on uncommon salvage (80) you could see a niche for when crafting during the height of the AE farming as uncommon prices were higher and very unstable. These days It is much better to just buy the salvage. Heck even at buy it NAO prices, I don't think I have spent more than 5001 inf on a uncommon. In most cases for a recipe I have placed on the market since the last issue, the uncommon component has been cheaper than the commons.
@Catwhoorg "Rule of Three - Finale" Arc# 1984
@Mr Falkland Islands"A Nation Goes Rogue" Arc# 2369 "Toasters and Pop Tarts" Arc#116617
what Cat said.
Even at the absolute height of MA fever, when many uncommons and some commons were regularly selling for 100k+, it just wasn't an efficient use of tickets compared to rolling bronze.
For a while I was rolling piles of common salvage, but just for fun. It was a hoot seeing stacks of vendor trash like Nevermelting Ice (which my friend called 'Neverselling Ice') go for a million inf.
But if your goal is profit, blowing tickets on salvage is a waste.
Especially now, when most of it has returned to historical price points. It's ridiculous to blow 80 tickets on a Yellow you can pick up for a few thousand inf, especially when that's enough to get you a bronze roll with a potential payoff of millions.
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My City Was Gone
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Originally Posted by Catwhoorg
Bronze recipe roll 60-75 tickets
Rare Salvage 540 tickets (or 7-9 bronze rolls) Over any sort of reasonable timeframe for averaging to occur, bronze rolls will consistently outperform the rare salvage. Using on uncommon salvage (80) you could see a niche for when crafting during the height of the AE farming as uncommon prices were higher and very unstable. These days It is much better to just buy the salvage. Heck even at buy it NAO prices, I don't think I have spent more than 5001 inf on a uncommon. In most cases for a recipe I have placed on the market since the last issue, the uncommon component has been cheaper than the commons. |
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Originally Posted by Nethergoat
what Cat said.
Even at the absolute height of MA fever, when many uncommons and some commons were regularly selling for 100k+, it just wasn't an efficient use of tickets compared to rolling bronze. For a while I was rolling piles of common salvage, but just for fun. It was a hoot seeing stacks of vendor trash like Nevermelting Ice (which my friend called 'Neverselling Ice') go for a million inf. But if your goal is profit, blowing tickets on salvage is a waste. Especially now, when most of it has returned to historical price points. It's ridiculous to blow 80 tickets on a Yellow you can pick up for a few thousand inf, especially when that's enough to get you a bronze roll with a potential payoff of millions. |
I think you'll be pleasantly surprised by the result. =)
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Gave the bronze rolls a try/ got some mixed results
I was working up to level 30 and didn't want to burn tickets on the way so I bought some salvage that was selling for around 2 million and listed it on the market
BBOE 1,755,555
Mil cyb 2,500,000
Pangean 2,000,000
soul trapped gem 2,111,111
Or about 4000 inf/ticket
Here are my results for rolling 30 rolls in the 10-14 category
I was planning on working my way up but the process of rolling checking prices and recording them was taking too long and I have an early day tomorrow. I will do some of the higher level ranges then.
10-14
You received Unquestioning Loyalty: Acc/End (Recipe). 16 sale 0 bids 25k
You received Explosive Strike : Knockback/Dam (Recipe). (20) 0 sale 1 bid 1500
You received Curtail Speed: Dam/Slow (Recipe). 1 for sale 0 bidding 1000
You received Triage: End/Rech (Recipe). 9 for sale o bidding
You received Horror: Acc/Rech (Recipe). 14 for sale 0 bidding
You received Cleaving Blow: Dam/Rech (Recipe). 1 for sale 0 25-35 k
You received Paralytic: End/Hold (Recipe). 14 for sale 0 bidding 1k
You received Befuddling Aura: Acc/End (Recipe). 8 for sale 500, 1000
You received Neuronic Shutdown: End/Hold (Recipe). 1 for sale 0 bidding 100k
You received Discouraging Words : To Hit DeBuff (Recipe). 1 for sale 100k-150k
You received Bone Snap: Acc/Rech (Recipe). 2 for sale 10k-25k 1 outlier 500k
You received Salvo: Acc/Dam (Recipe). 0 for sale 50k or so
You received Paralytic: Acc/Hold/Rech (Recipe). 7 for sale 10k or so pricing
You received Bone Snap: Dam/End (Recipe). 3 for sale 25k
You received Far Strike: Acc/End (Recipe). 15 for sale 3k to 10k
You received Commanding Presence: Acc/Dam (Recipe). 100k to 300k
You received Befuddling Aura: Confuse/Range (Recipe). 1k
You received Triage: Heal/Rech (Recipe). 2k
You received Unquestioning Loyalty: Acc/Dam (Recipe). 2k to 10k 2 for sale 1 bid
You received Bone Snap: Acc/Dam (Recipe). 25k 0/0
ou received Air Burst: Dam/End (Recipe). 10k
You received Eradication: Acc/Rech (Recipe). 1,000,000 4 for sale
You received Razzle Dazzle: Acc/End (Recipe). 555,555 -1,000,000
You received Stagger: Acc/Stun/Rech (Recipe).1000- 5000
You received Far Strike: Acc/End (Recipe). 3k to 10k
You received Unspeakable Terror: Acc/Rech (Recipe). 900
You received Air Burst: Dam/End (Recipe). 10k
You received Befuddling Aura: Acc/Confuse/Rech (Recipe). 4k
You received Salvo: Acc/Dam (Recipe). 50k
Call it 2 million for 1800 tickets ? I vendored most of the cheap stuff and listed the more expensive items.
So that gives about 1,111 inf /ticket
Its a small sample and I may be having hard luck.
10-14 isn't really a good spot to roll, unless you are level 10-15 or so.
The value there is in the procs, and requires a good low level.
35-39 is a good spot if you can roll that high.
For a lowbie rare salvage isn't that bad a choice, I apologise for missing that snippet before.
http://paragonwiki.com/wiki/User:Catwhoorg#30-34_3
give a breakdown of over 400 rolls I made at the 30-34 level.
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I believe you mean globals not procs. The IO level of a proc is irrelevant (except insofar as it determines when you can slot it) the level of global IOs is what matters |
Originally Posted by Catwhoorg
10-14 isn't really a good spot to roll, unless you are level 10-15 or so.
The value there is in the procs, and requires a good low level. |
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I always roll 30-34 bronze, it avoids the snipe sets and lets me dip on the sets that cap at 30 (Steadfast, Karma, Regenerative Tissue, etc.).
Maybe not the most profitable range, but I enjoy the variety.
*Ka-ching!*
Bugger!
*Ka-ching!*
Bugger!
*Ka-ching!*
Bugger!
*Ka-ching!*
Bugger!
*Ka-ching!*
Bugger!
*Ka-ching!*
Whee!
*Ka-ching!*
Bugger!
*Ka-ching!*
Whee!
And so on.
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I usually go for this roll as well, especially when I can use some of the recipes for the character rolling. There are some excellent sets available at this range: Crushing Impact, Thunderstrike, Reactive Armor, Smashing Haymaker, etc.|
Originally Posted by Aliana Blue
I always roll 30-34 bronze, it avoids the snipe sets and lets me dip on the sets that cap at 30 (Steadfast, Karma, Regenerative Tissue, etc.).
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Many of the uncommon sets tankers and scrappers use to soft-cap defense are in this range, and even if you're not using them for yourself, they can sell for quite a tidy profit. Not everyone cares about purpling out characters because the bonuses for purples are limited to relatively few types, not all of which are useful for many characters (except the vaunted +recharge, of course!).
I'll often buy rare salvage with tickets when I need a particular piece to craft a recipe, especially when all my slots are already filled with bids or items for sale. When you make bronze rolls you get a lot of good stuff, but it doesn't always sell immediately.
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Just a point of reference and I appologize for jumping on my hobby horse in your thread but this has bearing on best use. You said it was taking too long ? How would you say the recipe vending/marketing/crafting compared to salvage sales ?
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Originally Posted by B_L_Angel
Gave the bronze rolls a try/ got some mixed results
I was working up to level 30 and didn't want to burn tickets on the way so I bought some salvage that was selling for around 2 million and listed it on the market BBOE 1,755,555 Mil cyb 2,500,000 Pangean 2,000,000 soul trapped gem 2,111,111 Or about 4000 inf/ticket Here are my results for rolling 30 rolls in the 10-14 category I was planning on working my way up but the process of rolling checking prices and recording them was taking too long and I have an early day tomorrow. I will do some of the higher level ranges then. 10-14 You received Unquestioning Loyalty: Acc/End (Recipe). 16 sale 0 bids 25k You received Explosive Strike : Knockback/Dam (Recipe). (20) 0 sale 1 bid 1500 You received Curtail Speed: Dam/Slow (Recipe). 1 for sale 0 bidding 1000 You received Triage: End/Rech (Recipe). 9 for sale o bidding You received Horror: Acc/Rech (Recipe). 14 for sale 0 bidding You received Cleaving Blow: Dam/Rech (Recipe). 1 for sale 0 25-35 k You received Paralytic: End/Hold (Recipe). 14 for sale 0 bidding 1k You received Befuddling Aura: Acc/End (Recipe). 8 for sale 500, 1000 You received Neuronic Shutdown: End/Hold (Recipe). 1 for sale 0 bidding 100k You received Discouraging Words : To Hit DeBuff (Recipe). 1 for sale 100k-150k You received Bone Snap: Acc/Rech (Recipe). 2 for sale 10k-25k 1 outlier 500k You received Salvo: Acc/Dam (Recipe). 0 for sale 50k or so You received Paralytic: Acc/Hold/Rech (Recipe). 7 for sale 10k or so pricing You received Bone Snap: Dam/End (Recipe). 3 for sale 25k You received Far Strike: Acc/End (Recipe). 15 for sale 3k to 10k You received Commanding Presence: Acc/Dam (Recipe). 100k to 300k You received Befuddling Aura: Confuse/Range (Recipe). 1k You received Triage: Heal/Rech (Recipe). 2k You received Unquestioning Loyalty: Acc/Dam (Recipe). 2k to 10k 2 for sale 1 bid You received Bone Snap: Acc/Dam (Recipe). 25k 0/0 ou received Air Burst: Dam/End (Recipe). 10k You received Eradication: Acc/Rech (Recipe). 1,000,000 4 for sale You received Razzle Dazzle: Acc/End (Recipe). 555,555 -1,000,000 You received Stagger: Acc/Stun/Rech (Recipe).1000- 5000 You received Far Strike: Acc/End (Recipe). 3k to 10k You received Unspeakable Terror: Acc/Rech (Recipe). 900 You received Air Burst: Dam/End (Recipe). 10k You received Befuddling Aura: Acc/Confuse/Rech (Recipe). 4k You received Salvo: Acc/Dam (Recipe). 50k Call it 2 million for 1800 tickets ? I vendored most of the cheap stuff and listed the more expensive items. So that gives about 1,111 inf /ticket Its a small sample and I may be having hard luck. |
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Yes, the variance is quite high with bronze rolls because there are so many things that are worthless, and a few things that are worth quite a lot but may take a few days to sell at their true value. If you don't have market slots or time, bronze rolls may not be a fast and reliable income generator.|
Originally Posted by B_L_Angel
Gave the bronze rolls a try/ got some mixed results
I was working up to level 30 and didn't want to burn tickets on the way so I bought some salvage that was selling for around 2 million and listed it on the market BBOE 1,755,555 Mil cyb 2,500,000 Pangean 2,000,000 soul trapped gem 2,111,111 Or about 4000 inf/ticket Here are my results for rolling 30 rolls in the 10-14 category ... Call it 2 million for 1800 tickets ? I vendored most of the cheap stuff and listed the more expensive items. So that gives about 1,111 inf /ticket Its a small sample and I may be having hard luck. |
To get the real answer you'd need to go through the list of bronze rolls you're targeting and figure an expected return for each recipe. Then multiply that by the probability for each one and add them up. That would give you the expected value of a bronze roll. Then do the same thing for salvage.
You also need to consider both the average and median value of each item. The average bronze roll may be worth 1,000,000, but the median is probably 5,000 (the vendor price). The average and median salvage price are pretty close, currently 1-3 million. The value of salvage is pretty stable over short periods, the demand is much higher, and you can pick exactly what salvage you want based on current market conditions.
Really, it depends on when you need the inf. If you need 1 million immediately and you're level 25, and you can generate 540 tickets in 30 minutes, you can basically be guaranteed of getting 1-2 million with salvage. With a bronze roll it's an "investment" with unknown potential.
Over long periods (many rolls) bronze probably outperforms salvage (I've sold many recipes for 10, 20 and 30 million), but in the short term salvage gives better returns. It's like the difference between a CD and a stock.
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You also need to craft to maximize the profit--so it does require extra work (comparing recipe and IO, buying, crafting) and extra investment. Heroside, at least, the low-tier heal IOs usually move for 1-3 million, and most acc/dmg melee or range for 1-2. The mez triples shouldn't be bad either (I think redside I saw a couple ~30 in the 1-2 million range), since they've become much rarer crafted. That Eradication has climbed to 10 or even 15 million before (again, crafted). |
Originally Posted by B_L_Angel
Gave the bronze rolls a try/ got some mixed results
I was working up to level 30 and didn't want to burn tickets on the way so I bought some salvage that was selling for around 2 million and listed it on the market BBOE 1,755,555 Mil cyb 2,500,000 Pangean 2,000,000 soul trapped gem 2,111,111 Or about 4000 inf/ticket Here are my results for rolling 30 rolls in the 10-14 category I was planning on working my way up but the process of rolling checking prices and recording them was taking too long and I have an early day tomorrow. I will do some of the higher level ranges then. 10-14 You received Unquestioning Loyalty: Acc/End (Recipe). 16 sale 0 bids 25k You received Explosive Strike : Knockback/Dam (Recipe). (20) 0 sale 1 bid 1500 You received Curtail Speed: Dam/Slow (Recipe). 1 for sale 0 bidding 1000 You received Triage: End/Rech (Recipe). 9 for sale o bidding You received Horror: Acc/Rech (Recipe). 14 for sale 0 bidding You received Cleaving Blow: Dam/Rech (Recipe). 1 for sale 0 25-35 k You received Paralytic: End/Hold (Recipe). 14 for sale 0 bidding 1k You received Befuddling Aura: Acc/End (Recipe). 8 for sale 500, 1000 You received Neuronic Shutdown: End/Hold (Recipe). 1 for sale 0 bidding 100k You received Discouraging Words : To Hit DeBuff (Recipe). 1 for sale 100k-150k You received Bone Snap: Acc/Rech (Recipe). 2 for sale 10k-25k 1 outlier 500k You received Salvo: Acc/Dam (Recipe). 0 for sale 50k or so You received Paralytic: Acc/Hold/Rech (Recipe). 7 for sale 10k or so pricing You received Bone Snap: Dam/End (Recipe). 3 for sale 25k You received Far Strike: Acc/End (Recipe). 15 for sale 3k to 10k You received Commanding Presence: Acc/Dam (Recipe). 100k to 300k You received Befuddling Aura: Confuse/Range (Recipe). 1k You received Triage: Heal/Rech (Recipe). 2k You received Unquestioning Loyalty: Acc/Dam (Recipe). 2k to 10k 2 for sale 1 bid You received Bone Snap: Acc/Dam (Recipe). 25k 0/0 ou received Air Burst: Dam/End (Recipe). 10k You received Eradication: Acc/Rech (Recipe). 1,000,000 4 for sale You received Razzle Dazzle: Acc/End (Recipe). 555,555 -1,000,000 You received Stagger: Acc/Stun/Rech (Recipe).1000- 5000 You received Far Strike: Acc/End (Recipe). 3k to 10k You received Unspeakable Terror: Acc/Rech (Recipe). 900 You received Air Burst: Dam/End (Recipe). 10k You received Befuddling Aura: Acc/Confuse/Rech (Recipe). 4k You received Salvo: Acc/Dam (Recipe). 50k Call it 2 million for 1800 tickets ? I vendored most of the cheap stuff and listed the more expensive items. So that gives about 1,111 inf /ticket Its a small sample and I may be having hard luck. |
30 is a pretty good point to roll at (or 30+ if you're rolling 25-29 or under), since a number of the best level crafted 30s can be worth millions more than a 29.
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I roll 35-39, except on my lowbie mastermind (who i really should re-name 'The PROC-Tologist'). 10-14 is the 'home run or nothing' range, and the really big inf is in the lower level -kb's and whatnot.
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Originally Posted by Catwhoorg
10-14 isn't really a good spot to roll, unless you are level 10-15 or so.
The value there is in the procs, and requires a good low level. 35-39 is a good spot if you can roll that high. |
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My City Was Gone
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For me, there are other considerations. Making inf is one goal of several. |
Originally Posted by Nethergoat
Even at the absolute height of MA fever, when many uncommons and some commons were regularly selling for 100k+, it just wasn't an efficient use of tickets compared to rolling bronze.
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It's also important to me to make inf useful to me, by concentrating it on a banker character. This mean that valuable but unneeded recipes must be crafted, so that the resulting enhancement can be sold by the banker. If the recipe itself would simply be auctioned off by the character that got it via rolls or drops, then the inf would be scattered over multiple characters. That's what I try to avoid now.
I anticipate my character's wants. The banker bids recipes before they are needed and crafts them if they come available. If the market price is ridiculous or the bids fail, my characters buy with merits straight up and roll any leftovers. The banker makes sure the right salvage is available.
This means that I have to be able to craft stuff. Several rooms of my bases are devoted to salvage storage, so I usually have what I need to craft the drops. If I don't, I will look first to the market; the banker will buy what's needed and put it in the base. But if what's on the market is above an arbitrary cutoff point - usually around 2K for commons, 15K for uncommons and 1.2M for rares - that means its a ticket buy or at least roll-at. I do a fair amount of messing around in MA, so most of my characters have more than enough tickets to buy rare salvage to order.
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This is where I roll also (red primarily but also blue some), and it has generally served quite nicely.
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Originally Posted by Aliana Blue
I always roll 30-34 bronze, it avoids the snipe sets and lets me dip on the sets that cap at 30 (Steadfast, Karma, Regenerative Tissue, etc.).
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Why, don't you have any friends who can help you move inf around if you want too?|
Originally Posted by Heraclea
It's also important to me to make inf useful to me, by concentrating it on a banker character.
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And I don't see the utility of concentrating your inf on one character unless you're into bigtime marketeering.
What's the attraction?
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| This mean that valuable but unneeded recipes must be crafted, so that the resulting enhancement can be sold by the banker. If the recipe itself would simply be auctioned off by the character that got it via rolls or drops, then the inf would be scattered over multiple characters. That's what I try to avoid now. |
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| I anticipate my character's wants. The banker bids recipes before they are needed and crafts them if they come available. If the market price is ridiculous or the bids fail, my characters buy with merits straight up and roll any leftovers. The banker makes sure the right salvage is available. |
Let the inf fall where it may and people can buy their own stuff.
Or a richer character can buy it for them and stick it in base storage.
It seems to me you're needlessly complicating the whole process.
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| This means that I have to be able to craft stuff. Several rooms of my bases are devoted to salvage storage, so I usually have what I need to craft the drops. |
What an INCREDIBLE waste of resources.
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| If I don't, I will look first to the market; the banker will buy what's needed and put it in the base. But if what's on the market is above an arbitrary cutoff point - usually around 2K for commons, 15K for uncommons and 1.2M for rares - that means its a ticket buy or at least roll-at. I do a fair amount of messing around in MA, so most of my characters have more than enough tickets to buy rare salvage to order. |
You know a better, simpler, more efficient, easier and more value-stable way to do all this?
1: Sell everything that drops for a big pile of inf.
2: Use that big pile of inf to buy what you want when you want it.
It works great.
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My City Was Gone
Wandering onto my hobby horse again, this goes to the overall question of how to best use your currencies though.
I took a look at Heraclea's replies and with the exception of uncommon/uncommon salvage it looked like a remarkably time effective strategy.
Setting up the SG for storage and crafting saves much time right from the start. Concentrating market activities on specialized market toons makes much sense. The only problem I have with the strategy as a playstyle is that to maximize the benefits you have to target a server and decide to do that from the start. Its an upshot of the fact that the devs have decided to turn crafting into an exercise in running back and forth between stores, crafting tables, vaults, and auction houses. Having the centralized character doing the crafting/market play means keeping far fewer lists and worrying much less about where things are.
Edit: Going back to the original poster, At level 30 you have something like 12 recipe slots, 30 salvage storage (in the bag of holding not the vault), 15 ??? auction slots ?? As was noted in another thread the redside market is moving very slowly how did you manage to move your loot and what did you do with it and how long did it take ?
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Not at all. But some useful things sell for more than around 15-20M inf, and that's fairly close to what a typical character carries. I do have a stable of about 18 regularly played heroes on my home server, and around 8 villains. Using a banker means that I can afford to buy things that cost more than what any one single character is likely to own.|
Originally Posted by Nethergoat
And I don't see the utility of concentrating your inf on one character unless you're into bigtime marketeering.
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Or a richer character can buy it for them and stick it in base storage. It seems to me you're needlessly complicating the whole process. |
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Devoting several ROOMS of a base to storing junk that can nearly always be bought for a few thousand inf? What an INCREDIBLE waste of resources. |
It costs the princely sum of 1900 prestige to keep the base storage operational, and one levelling character can make that with a couple of radio missions. "Waste" suggests there's something more worthwhile to do with a SG base. I already have the teleporters, and obviously a lot of storage and crafting stuff. What else is there?
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Hi there, I know this has been likely asked and answered before but I couldn't find it, So I hope no one minds if I ask it again.
What are the good uses of Tickets for redside ?
I have been mostly been buying whatever the expensive salvage is at the moment and listing it on the market. This has worked out to about 3500 -6000 inf/ticket. My problem is that I just cant buy the stuff I want to on the blackmarket. I just haven't been able to find middle level stuff in multiple enhances unless its in the super expensive category. This is with leaving bids up for weeks at a time and over a 4 level span. I am at the point where I either have to knuckle under and just use commons and SOs till I get to 50 or bite the bullet and start buying the stuff I don't like to put into a character till I know I want to go all out.