Thoughts on Stamina

I'm actually considering skipping on Stamina. I took fitness, albeit a little late into the build, but I find that I only really have END problems soloing if I somehow run out of Blues or things to turn into Blues. Teaming it doesn't come up because I only make it through like one or two attacks per mob before said mob falls over.

Electric Melee/Super Reflexes. I haven't actually crunched any of the numbers, but I could definitely afford to grab another one of my defensive powers instead of the Hurdle I've got specced right now. I'm pretty good about sticking an END Reduction SO or IO in every power.

/SR without stamina? O.o

crazy... what level are you? I highly recomend stamina, unless you want to devour blues all the time for the rest of your life!!

Elec/SR w/o stamina? Err... dont recommed, but if you feel like it, give it a try!

Erm...so you rely on eating blues?

Unwise in my opinion. You will find situations in which you will have a drought of inspirations, and not having Stamina will suck then.

If you were Regen or Willpower I'd agree that Stamina is very skippable.

SR, Invuln, Shield, and Fire all need it, and you're insane if you skip it on a DA. Electric I don't have any experience with, but it seems like you could skip it without too much difficulty.

Any build can function without stamina. You can even build sustainable attack chains without stamina.

You will be vastly less efficient at the job of killing without stamina than any other scrapper that takes stamina.

Well, you can think about it this way too, which is more costly? Skipping fitness, which provides a quick way to get around, health regeneration (very nice for SR) and the ability to use all those non blue insps... OR sacrificing a slot in every power you have (giving up something, be it accuracy/rech/dam/def etc)

Elec Melee admittadly, is a low end cost power set, but once you take the dive and grab stamina, you'll suddenly find yourself much more free fighting enemies.

Also, have you considered taking swift rather than hurdle? Quickness + Swift is nearly a travel power itself, combat jumping is a good way to add a vertical component and a little extra D.

Lastly, what defensive power were you foregoing for fitness, what attacks have you taken? It's possible that another toggle would make you feel the need for stamina more than you do now, and it's likely there's a convenient way for you to fit fitness in that's just not easily visible, so posting a power list at least (if not a build) would "help us, help you, help yourself".

if you do skip stamina id suggest slotting elude with end mods and use it when you are about to run out of blue bar, that buys you 3 mins .
it caps def by itself with no def enhancements so you can drop your other toggles and go to town, but be ready for the crash, use rest and go back to fighting, by the time your end is about to bottom out again, elude will be near up again, but if you skip Stamina id skip Hasten too

It's true that SR is a very tight secondary, what you might consider is simply playing your scrapper without until you feel like you have the powerslots available to spare, then respeccing into it, thus skipping the time it takes to reach stamina's usefulness (by that I mean post slotting) It will also give you more time to figure out which powers you feel are definite keepers and which aren't.

Some things to look into are the travel temp powers (the jump, not jet pack from the kings row bank mission will leave you satisfied for about 30 levels).

Think about going to one of the pvp zones and doing a patrol mission to earn either

Bloody Bay: Hyper stealth (stealth with boosted speed)
Or
Sirens Call: Combat Invisibility (Invisibility that surpresses for combat but leaves a slight defense buff)

Those are both 30 minute in game powers, which is more than enough time to stealth all the missions you will ever need some extra stealth on, at least pre-eternal end game. Stealth IO's are out there as well.

I remember for my claws/SR I left evasion on hold for a long time, and never really hurt for it, choosing lower end cost/scaling dam res over defense in order to take stamina. This is because I like you, team often, so the offensive path was good enough to hold me over.

The Bottom line is, if you can find a way to fit it, you will have less downtime more often. However, if you're losing out on things you enjoy to do so, than don't bother. Do give it a shot sometime though.

I think the prereq's to stamina are rather good actually.

Hurdle + CJ is great battlefield mobility on any toon.

swift + quickness is damn near a travel power itself. You'll definitaly be faster then anyone on your team.

One more powerpick for endurance management. I think its kinda a no-brainer

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shadow Ravenwolf My favorite combo is Faceplant/DebtCap with the TeamWipe Ancillary

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dispari Yeah, I like Blasters too.

The beauty of this game is there's as many ways to play it as there are players. If you can make it work without stamina, by all means go for it. I personally wouldn't do it with that combination. But I've done it with a DM/Shield (albiet only breifly, then I decided to go back to the stamina build)... and I do it without any regrets at all on my fire/mind blaster. So if you think you can pull it off... go ahead. But if you do find yourself out of endurance frequently... stamina will go a long way to fixing that issue.

If its a level 50 build with endless supply of influence and the addition of PP, sure you could build around without it.
If we're talking about a leveling build, would strongly advice on picking it up at 20, unless you are a regen or WP.

maybe log out in pocket D for a month? that might help......

I've got a couple more Stamina free characters to 50 recently, a PeaceBringer and a Psi/Mental Blaster.

The thing is that they were both able to slot for about +20% recovery via set bonuses (Thunderstrike and Posi's Blast) and had an auxiliary end tool available if required. (Nova Form and Drain Psyche)

An Elec/SR Scrapper would be much harder - no extra end tools and your best bet for slotting +Rec would be piddly 1%'s from Bruising Blow or Cleaving Blow, which dont offer much else.

Maybe go for +Endurance bonuses too? Eradications about your best bet there for PBAoEs

Its still doable, so go for it. Stamina often gets a bit overrated because it kicks in around the same time as SO enhancements, so its accompanied by an increase in effectiveness of end redux slotting and greater damage for better DPE.

The Atlas Medallion Accolade for +5% End will help, that can be acquired by your mid 20s usually.

With IO sets to offer good end redux slotting, haste and conserve, I can't see why not.

Aye, i skipped Jacobs ladder on my EIM build and havent looked back. But by eg. skipping "only" Havoc Punch, Confront and Lightning clap you could still get for example 3 from fitness, 2 from leaping, 2 from fighting, 2 from Epic pool and Haste.

Or skip SJ and get SS instead (i still recommend the CJ, but could skip that and get weave instead)

So, why not skip stamina? Fully slotted with 100 endumax it gives you 0.88 endurance/s. Its a lot, but if you can manage, its ok.
(hope this is even a remotely correct number)

Stamina can be skipped on any build, most veterans understand the combat flow and correct attack chains in order to stay in battle. Obviously taking insps is a must with no stam, but it's not impossible. I would only recommend it on end heavy builds like SR. Having three toggles running is very taxing even with IO's. Also anything that tanks takes it, but thats been the Golden Age rule since beta.

Lastly, for long tf runs it might be annoying but Scrappers never really have problems on that end. Of course without stam your dps will drop. I would say its only needed for very long battles....like this one ; http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RDeiiX_ODpE

I'm in the category of those who think you can never have enough endurance.

I usually take all the +end/+recovery powers available.

I could see getting by on body mastery alone in late game cause you can double the effectiveness of the +recovery procs in PP and CP would help for longer fights. Numerically it is about as good as stamina+health slotted with the numi/miracle procs.

For leveling though I'd definitely take stamina and every form of recovery I can get my hands on.

YMMV.

I've actually died more because of my blue bar (running out of end and my toggles dropping) than my HP bar alone.

You can skip stamina you should make a spines/dark scrapper without stamina make sure to take concealment pool and the leadership pool with teleport as your travel power