I want to take a moment to commend je saist for that post. It is thoughtful and interesting, and well worth the read. Good show 
More to point, though, when we talk about "items," we go back to the old paradigm about why items don't fit with all characters in a super hero universe. In fact, that's the primary reason why Natural enhancements are types of training, Science enhancements are chemical and energy exposures and Mutation enhancements are... Well, mutations. Unlike in other MMOs where items make the hero, here POWERS make our own. These powers could come from items, obviously, but just as easily, they may not.
Let's say I'm the Silver Surfer. Am I really going to want, much less need, a pair of pants, a ring or a hat? What if I'm Ben Grim, the Thing? What am I going to do with armour when my skin is harder than that just naturally? Or, to give you a more specific example, what if we look at my ridiculously human robot/cyborg woman? All of her powers are neatly tucked away into her INTERNAL workings, serving to reinforce her central point - the perfect duplicate of a human being. She has no use for weapons or armour, because she is both naturally tougher than any armour and naturally stronger and faster than any weapon. About the only thing she can hope for is clothes that don't disintegrate around her at the first sign of danger, like after running through a fireball or taking a rocket to the face. And that's more for the sake of maintaining a PG rating than for actual utility.
The whole reason we even HAVE enhancements and why we DON'T have items is because, in this universe, it just doesn't fit that many of the heroes and villains. This was discussed five years ago, and it has been discussed intermittently since then. I even remember the quote: "Oh, right, I remember that episode where Neo beats up Agent Smith and then rummages through his suit for his tighty-whities." It doesn't make sense. It never did.
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Originally Posted by Arcanaville
Samuel_Tow is the only poster that makes me want to punch him in the head more often when I'm agreeing with him than when I'm disagreeing with him.
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Sorry Herc but I agree with Memphis Bill. I enjoy the fact that I don't have to go on a "special quest or whatever to earn the "HOOD or Healing" to increase my Regen powers or whatever. I don't have to buy, barter, or beg for things to add to my outfit I just go play the game and earn inluence and buy my enhancements as slots become available. Basically its like as I run missions I am constantly training and honing my powers to make them better till level 50.
And if this idea of your's did occur then what? Back to the tailor to PAY to add it to your costume? I've siad it before here I am not even crazy about how I earn extra costume slots. I do the Tailor a HUGE favor and get a villain group to leave him/her alone so I can EARN the right to BUY an outfit? "Hey pal I just beat the snot of 30 Tsoo for you ... now you want to charge me for a new costume too?" Fortunately after almost 4 years in game I hav so many free custume rewards and tokens I could change about 10 times and still not have to pay but I think you see my point. Let's just keep my powers and my clothing seperate.
Then look at classic comic, which is what this game is based on, and you don't find a lot of Super Heroes that have that much junk attached to their spadex to help them battle evil. Superman? Nope Spiderman? Nope Wolverine? Nope Batman? Okay he's into gadgets but his utility belt aside his strength omes from constant training to hone his body... not a knee pad. There are a few that have bracelets of power or the Green Latern with his ring.. but those are solo items that grant a nomral person with all their super powers. The Green Latern doesn't wear ear rings of defense and a necklace of strength.. he has ONE Ring. This is not Dungeons and Dragons, It's not WOW, it is City of Heroes and the mechanics involved in giving us the abilities we have are fine. I don't need to start running around looking for clothin accessories.. I have the Rikti and Nemesis to deal with.
�We�re always the good guys. In D&D, we�re lawful good. In City of Heroes we�re the heroes. In Grand Theft Auto we pay the prostitutes promptly and never hit them with a bat.� � Leonard
�Those women are prostitutes? You said they were raising money for stem cell research!� � Sheldon
Would rather not play City of Herocraft thanks.
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Originally Posted by Dechs Kaison See, it's gems like these that make me check Claws' post history every once in a while to make sure I haven't missed anything good lately. |
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This.|
Originally Posted by Megajoule
No.
Just no. If I wanted to be playing That Other Game, I would be. |
I really don't think it would be much of a draw tbh.
Very unsigned
This topic just screams 'we want to be more like wow' to me, i like how costumes work in CoX and having all that medieval armour type stuff (that i HATE with a passion) would just ruin the game because to be the best your char could be you would have to cover up your cossy.
It's the same problem as granite just with worse (IMHO) looks, and the devs are trying to find a costume alternative to granite because of how many people dislike the added coverup effect.
Not 100% certain why I'm even posing this, when it appears the OP's idea has been destroyed about the same way an Amtrak express train will destroy a ming vase placed on the railroad tracks.
That said, I'll add my voice to the masses and point out that disconnecting appearance and functionality is one of the best things this game has going for it. The options that exist to look unique are just huge. Costume creator, customized weapons, and now with I16 customized powers.
You also have a lot of options for how to build your character - SO's, HO's, IO's, Sets, Purples, Frankenbuilding ...
Just don't EVER tie these to each other.
Scrappers are just like chainsaws. Somewhat hard to handle, EXTREMELY dangerous, and by far the most fun when wielded by the slightly insane.
@Alissara - an Angry Angel
The Angry Angels. When it absolutely positively has to be spanked today.
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Sorry to disagree, but in no way has my idea has been destroyed.|
Originally Posted by Alissara
Not 100% certain why I'm even posing this, when it appears the OP's idea has been destroyed about the same way an Amtrak express train will destroy a ming vase placed on the railroad tracks.
That said, I'll add my voice to the masses and point out that disconnecting appearance and functionality is one of the best things this game has going for it. The options that exist to look unique are just huge. Costume creator, customized weapons, and now with I16 customized powers. You also have a lot of options for how to build your character - SO's, HO's, IO's, Sets, Purples, Frankenbuilding ... Just don't EVER tie these to each other. |
Short synopsis of responses:
1. "Wow has something like this and I strongly dislike WoW. Therefore we shouldnt have it." - this is a statement of your personal preference, one with which I disagree. I could give a long list of stuff I dislike about WoW, and an equally long list of things I do. Your personal prejudice shouldnt narrow what this game can and should implement in the future.
2. "I dont want items to dictate my appearance." This response given by people who read about 2 lines of my idea. Nowhere did I say the items would change your appearance.
3. "I dont want to farm for items" - no one would force you. I explicitly said the items would be 'nice to haves', and not particularly overpowering.
4. "CoH should not be taking ideas from other games" - follow this philosophy and CoH will be digging itself into a very tiny, unchanging, stagnant hole. Taking ideas from other games, where it makes sense, is not a bad thing.
5. "My toon doesnt thematically use items" - ok, then dont use items, no one would force you to. They would be completely optional.
6. "IO's already serve this purpose." My idea is additive, not meant to replace IOs. As I've already stated, these items could add additional procs or abilities that you wouldnt get with an SO or IO or serve as global enhancements ( similar to a permanent inspiration ).
131430 Starfare: First Contact
178774 Tales of Croatoa: A Rose By Any Other Name ( 2009 MA Best In-Canon Arc ) ( 2009 Player Awards - Best Serious Arc )
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The only way you can say this with a straight face is that you keep changing your idea and claiming it was something different each time you post. | Sorry to disagree, but in no way has my idea has been destroyed. |
Get over it. You've been hammered harder than Firi and QuiJon were in that thread about bringing back old-Sk. At this point, I think you've gone beyond simply raising questions to outright flame-baiting and trolling the forums.
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Perhaps you could point out where I've changed my idea? |
Originally Posted by je_saist
The only way you can say this with a straight face is that you keep changing your idea and claiming it was something different each time you post.
Get over it. You've been hammered harder than Firi and QuiJon were in that thread about bringing back old-Sk. At this point, I think you've gone beyond simply raising questions to outright flame-baiting and trolling the forums. |
As far as trolling goes, your post qualifies.
131430 Starfare: First Contact
178774 Tales of Croatoa: A Rose By Any Other Name ( 2009 MA Best In-Canon Arc ) ( 2009 Player Awards - Best Serious Arc )
As you are not listening to us, I am done listening to you.
Goodbye.
My characters at Virtueverse
Faces of the City
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Denial . . . Gotta love it.|
Originally Posted by Hercules
Sorry to disagree, but in no way has my idea has been destroyed.
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| 1. "Wow has something like this and I strongly dislike WoW. Therefore we shouldnt have it." - this is a statement of your personal preference, one with which I disagree. I could give a long list of stuff I dislike about WoW, and an equally long list of things I do. Your personal prejudice shouldnt narrow what this game can and should implement in the future. |
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| 2. "I dont want items to dictate my appearance." This response given by people who read about 2 lines of my idea. Nowhere did I say the items would change your appearance. |
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What I'd propose are the following item slots: 1. Necklace ( Focus: Buff, Debuffs, Control, Special ) 2. Left Ring ( Focus: Damage/Accuracy ) 3. Right Ring ( Focus: Damage/Accuracy ) 4. Belt Buckle ( Focus: HP/Endurance Regeneration ) 5. Left Kneepad ( Focus: Defense/Resistance ) 6. Right Kneepad ( Focus: Defense/Resistance ) 7. Left Ankle Bracelet ( Focus: Running/Flight Speed ) 8. Right Ankle Bracelet ( Focus: Running/Flight Speed ) 9. Cape Brooch ( Special ) I would not make these items overly powerful - more like "nice to have", but not a huge advantage. Examples: Necklace of Control: 2% extended duration on hold powers Ring of Domination: 2% extra single target damage Ring of Fire: 10% of your smashing/lethal damage is converted to fire damage Buckle of Fortitude: 1% increase to endurance regeneration and 2% extra hit points Bracelet of Akira: 2% increase to flight speed Brooch of Arachnida: 1% chance to spawn several spider pets ( 10 min cooldown after proc ) Crimson Kneepads: 3% increase to fire resistance Kneepad of Conversion: 10% of energy damage taken is treated like S/L damage. Kneepad of Punishment: 1% of damage taken is mitigated and reflected back to your attacker. |
"I'd leave it up to the devs whether these items would be visible or not."
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| 3. "I dont want to farm for items" - no one would force you. I explicitly said the items would be 'nice to haves', and not particularly overpowering. |
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| 4. "CoH should not be taking ideas from other games" - follow this philosophy and CoH will be digging itself into a very tiny, unchanging, stagnant hole. Taking ideas from other games, where it makes sense, is not a bad thing. |
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| 5. "My toon doesnt thematically use items" - ok, then dont use items, no one would force you to. They would be completely optional. |
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| 6. "IO's already serve this purpose." My idea is additive, not meant to replace IOs. As I've already stated, these items could add additional procs or abilities that you wouldnt get with an SO or IO or serve as global enhancements ( similar to a permanent inspiration ). |
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If he or anyone else who has opposed your idea is trolling you then notify the mods. Oh wait you can't because no one has trolled you. Darn. You'll just have to grow up and deal with crticism like an adult.|
Originally Posted by Hercules
Perhaps you could point out where I've changed my idea?
As far as trolling goes, your post qualifies. |
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Universal Enhancement Slots was from the (in)famous Marketing Servey (as a way to reach a theoretical level 60) which was also the first place we heard hints of power customization, and the possibility of an expansion. BAB has said that some of the features meantioned in the servey have changed or been dropped so we don't know if UES will be part of Going Rogue.
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Originally Posted by je_saist
Then I caught Lemur Lad's comment:
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Thank you for answering this.
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Originally Posted by Shadow State
Universal Enhancement Slots was from the (in)famous Marketing Servey (as a way to reach a theoretical level 60) which was also the first place we heard hints of power customization, and the possibility of an expansion. BAB has said that some of the features meantioned in the servey have changed or been dropped so we don't know if UES will be part of Going Rogue.
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wanted to respond to this thread again after the Original Poster went and turned the intent of the thread on it's head. Many other posters have clarified exactly why Gear based bonus's are one of the particulars of City of Heroes that set the game apart from all other MMO's. While City of Heroes wasn't the first MMO to separate the armor and appearance from stats, that honor goes to Phantasy Star Online, City of Heroes was one of the, if not first, to completely decouple the two concepts.
Other MMO's have taken steps to help players customize their costumes, by including dyes to change colors, but there is a stark difference. In CoH, your Costume identifies Your Avatar.
As I read the thread, the Original Poster then tried to turn the idea around, saying that the Gear would be invisible. Well... as many other players have pointed out, that basically just makes the suggestion into Enhancements... which is what the game does already.
Then I caught Lemur Lad's comment:
Where yes, Mr. Miller does specify that and difficult tasks for level 50 characters to do that make them more powerful. .... But all this could mean is a Task Force or event that results in a guaranteed Purple Recipe drop. Remember back before Issue 9? When Hamidon Raid's were the only way to get the most powerful enhancements in the game? What is known about Going Rogue doesn't lean any credence, that I can determine, to an overhaul or addition to the Slotting system.
***
WoW is a great cannibalize of ideas from other games - something the CoH devs should also consider doing.
WoW is a bit like like having an Xbox with Halo back in 2002 through... well, now really. Nobody at work would mock you for having an Xbox. Nobody would think you a freak for playing Halo. Gamers wouldn't automatically dismiss you. It was a nice, happy, medium for the non-gamer. And it was utter rubbish.. In the same way, WoW is rubbish to the hardcore gamer. Those who like the Fantasy Genre will probably get more out of focused games like Aion, WarHammer, Everquest, or Final Fantasy XI.
Once you get away from the safe option though, you'll find that cannibalizing ideas is generally bad business. The empirical cases in point here are Auto Assault, Planetside, Star Wars Galaxies, Vanguard, and so on. Each of these games has at some point ripped off another popular game... and promptly found themselves headed to the rubbish bin as the player base evaporated. That 3 of these are SOE published games that still have operational servers should serve as a reminder that Everquest is still an 8,000 lb gorilla as well... since Everquest pretty much is the only thing SOE does that makes money.
It's also important the CoH developers don't lose focus on what they are making. Changing a game too much can also lead to certain death. Case in point here is Tabula Rasa. It started out as an epic Team-Based third-person shooter crossing CoH with Planetside. After launch, the dev leads that took over after Richard Garriot left for his space trip promptly turned the game around and focused on the Player versus Player market... and as NCSoft's financials showed just mere months later... there is not a PvP oriented market large enough to sustain a PvP Oriented MMO... not with the likes of Unreal, Quake, Far Cry, and Half Life that offer modding tools for their games.
This loss of focus is one of the concerns I held about Going Rogue. I wrote about how I felt that allowing players to change sides the game was a bad design choice. Now, I've changed my mind since I can see where Paragon Studios is going with the game. I can see the changing foundations of teaming and the concepts of teaming. What CoH is becoming is a more focused, and better, exploration of the Comic Book Super Hero Genre.
From a financial standpoint it would seem that continuing to be unique is what will set CoH apart from other attempts. Copying ideas, no matter how good they might seem, that don't fit the foundation or goals of the game... well... that will kill the game.