For what you're asking, you simply can't do.
If you are in Defensive/Follow, for instance, and then have the pets attack a target, they'll attack and return to Defensive/Follow after the attack.
What you do instead is 'tankermind'. Get that enemy to attack you and then your pets will defend you against the threat.
This may appear like a wall of text, but try to read it, this is what i learned when i played with my MMs.
You can completely control BG mode and Damage output at the same time. But you gonna be "playing/mashing buttons" like hell, it is not passive. It is just not real obvious on how to figure it out.
When i play my mm, I am usually a taunt bot, but i have storm which is an aoe. On my dark, generally don't have any problems, i use aoe attack or taunt.
i need to dust off my mm again. I don't play them that much anymore, it has been OVER a year, so my syntax on the commands might not be exactly right. maybe someone else who is more current can correct my syntax on the commands in the example. You need to find the guides on naming and commands. So you may have to look for commands help. I may not be giving you the exact right terms since it has been so long since i worked up the MMs.
This is what i came up with when first tinkering with this whole taunt/body guard thing. MM pets can act basically a dull pain/shield/heal (ie a damaging but expendable hitpoints/buff), so tank it. That might not make alot of sense at first, but keep reading. Taunt/provoke (ie pool power) or an aoe mm attack that refocuses foes attention on you, will generally solve the problems with pets in BG mode. Keep damage coming at you, and leave pets in BG mode, so they attack AND Buff you.
i think this stuff below is important, and makes the whole bg mode/damage work
There is a way to drag the pet commands icon from the pet window to the power tray, and then edit them. or You can make custom binds but they are a pain in the **** based on my khelds. I am too lazy to make a boat load of binds, so i drag and edit the pet commands.
Naming of pets can be important, and here is why, proper naming and using commands, allows for COMPLETE control over BG mode.
For example, Larry Barry and Moe are ninjas. Sonny, and Johnny are Jounin and Oni is M O F O
By example, So if the flame thrower is the only pet with (ie Moe ), once you edit the dragged command pet_com_all i think, to pet_name_ Moe then the command becomes for that one pet only with moe in his name, with the spelling of moe. if you use just the spelling "mo" the command works for both Oni (tier three) and Moe (tier one).
Editing the commands based on names of the pets, gives an enormous amount of fexiblity. You can custom control the pets, purely by their name spelling, combination of tier one, tier two, or combination of tier one, two AND three at the same time all by name spelling. A command for petcom_name mo then, controls oni and only one ninja. Using "petcom_name defensive follow? y" controls all pets with y in their name, in this case for larry, barry sonny and johnny go defensive. That leave Mo pets in a different mode (attack whatever). So the MO pets attack, and the y pets defend (aka attack too, but stay in BG mode to buff you)
So, you can drag/edit "attack my target petcom_all" to "petcom_name oe", use that and only send a tire one (named moe) around a corner, have him attack, follow that command after he attacks with "defensive follow petcom_all?" command to all pets, and Moe will return to you (if he lives), and all your other pets sitting right next to you, are already in defensive mode to brunt the incoming alpha. You edit the command to just "mo" and oni and the ninja go, and the rest stay in BG mode. Sweet eh?
But you might need to buff up to hold the alpha in bg mode, or you might need more damage output, less buff. Just depends on the pull and aggro.
Once the foes are incoming, if there is enough range, you can taunt/aoe attack as they come, refocusing their attention. Pets generally stay in defensive mode/bg mode, and you have tried to pull and control aggro. Time to adjust BG mode/buffing and damage output. That technique is fun but unpredicatble. Any pull can be unpredicatble, a buffed up pet etc improves the chances of that working.
You can pull or attack using ANY combination of tier pets AND choose to leave certain pets in defensive BG mode to buff yourself. So you can have tier twos and tier three attack, while keeping tier ones in bg mode. (remember i was talking about using the pets as a damaging expendable hitpoints, now you can see how). You can progressively change the pets attacking and the number of pets in BG mode on the fly using this stuff. So if the pull or damage is going to be hi, you would "DP/heal/buff/turn on MOG" as a tanker but for the MM, you will switch your different tiers pets into BG mode, and leave other tiers in attack mode. If you are taking a beating, switch them all off attack to BG mode on the fly, keep summoning or vice versa swap them back to damage when you can . I can swap out my bg mode and balance my pet attacks this way all from the power tray.
You can use BG mode kinda like a heal/buff if you understand how. And you can control BG mode buffing and adjust the number of pets attacking this way.
Back to bodyguard mode, so when fighting a slowed foe that can not attack, (an EB or something, with snowstorm (slow -recharge) and pulse hurricaine (-to hit) the pets will quit attacking in body guard mode, if there is no incoming damage. I had to Attack my target petcoma_all, then revert them back to "defensive follow" again once damage starts coming back your way. Or keep issuing an attack only to certain pets using the name command, and leave the others in bg mode/defensive mode to buff me. Sometimes there are noticble delays in solo play with switching back and forth from pet stances globally, hence allowing certain pets to attack while others are in BG mode really helps.
they weren't kidding when they named this AT the MM, it is purely on you to figuring it out tho. Dynamic as you want it to play. All of my MMs were "set up" meaning all these commands and naming over a year ago, and i haven't messed with it since. My syntax and commands may be off from memory, but all of this is possible with proper planning in naming and commands. I do it automaitcally now (since all the commands are set up) from the power tray and dragged commands.
I never mastered this completely but got down some decent work arounds, the possiblities are pretty amazing. You just have to figure out how to make the naming/commands work for you, to keep some/any/all of your pets in bg mode at anytime you want. That depends on play style.
Hope that helps. Check out a guide to the pet commands, and naming conventions. I am sure my syntax is wrong on the some of the commands, mine were "set up" over a year ago, but that is how i did it. I only did it for each MM and it was all trial and error based on the set of pets. Each set behavies differently. Once you get commands and pet control down, start "playing" with the commands, and controlling combinations of pets using names, and you will completely master bg mode.
Bodyguard works in Defensive/Follow, Defensive/Stay, and Defensive/GoTo
Pretty much it.
Or to put it simply; if you want to attack and stay in Bodyguard, only order SOME of your pets to attack and leave the rest in Defensive/Follow. And yes, you can drag icons from your pet window to your power tray to make new command buttons, as well as edit the ones there.
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Originally Posted by Obscure Blade
Or to put it simply; if you want to attack and stay in Bodyguard, only order SOME of your pets to attack and leave the rest in Defensive/Follow. And yes, you can drag icons from your pet window to your power tray to make new command buttons, as well as edit the ones there.
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Defensive/Stay and Defensive/Go To are also viable options.
The way I look at it is, you can sacrifice the initiative and have protection, or you can sacrifice protection and have initiative. If you let your foes shoot first, your henchmen will protect you, but if you make your henchmen make the attack, then they're too busy. A happy medium is getting some of your henchmen to attack and some to defend.
In addition to the suggestions above, you can usually get your henchmen to draw fire if you move them into aggro range. So while you can tell a henchman or two to attack, you could also use goto to place him in range of a foe. If he's in Defensive mode he won't attack first, but he will start firing when he's shot at. Note that your Defensive mode henchmen will shoot anyone that shoots at you or any of your other henchmen, but they will NOT shoot at foes that shoot at your teammates. (Aggressive henchmen will shoot at anything, but foes that are shooting at you still get priority)
Another thing to remember is that if you tell your henchmen to attack with "petcom_all attack" and then set them back to Bodyguard with "petcom_all follow defensive" they will stop firing for 10 seconds. So while you could do that to initiate an attack and then have Bodyguard from then on, it's not as efficient as the partial Bodyguard idea.
Personally, I like to use Aggressive and Defensive instead of Attack and (Defensive) Follow. That lets my henchmen choose when and what to attack, and I just control the attack by moving them into range. I think most people prefer concentrating their fire, though, as this allows the most dangerous foes to be deal with quickly, instead of having your henchmen defeat all foes all at the same time.
Heck I just wish I could BG without my pets running to the four corners of the map ><
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I'm one of those who prefer concentrating fire at a single target at a time, usually with an 'Attack my target' command. A mob of 8 half injured enemies are still going to return 8 enemies worth of fire, whereas a mob of 4 down and 4 up will only return half that fire. Mathematically, it is best to eliminate one than to injure another.|
Originally Posted by Jade_Dragon
I think most people prefer concentrating their fire, though, as this allows the most dangerous foes to be deal with quickly, instead of having your henchmen defeat all foes all at the same time.
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Of course, the downside to this is that I'm no longer in BG mode when giving an attack order. But as I play a bots/traps, it's usually the bots who will draw fire after their attack anyway, and I'm rarely shot at while I'm stealthed laying traps and giving the bots targeting orders.
As noted in some posts here, some bots/traps and other MM's prefer to taunt and use BG to protect the MM and keep the bots/henchmen out of the line of fire. Note, though, that while BG provides additional protection for the MM, the bots/henchmen will still take a fraction of the damage as well. I think it's a matter of style preference, as I often find myself outside BG range to stealth-lay traps in the midst of the enemy or up front of the bots, while I focus their fire to quickly take out one enemy at a time.
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Exactly. It's a balancing act. But the opposite is true, as well. If you concentrate fire on a foe, particularly a Boss, the foes will all aggro on whoever does the most damage. By splitting up their fire, though, your henchmen split up the return fire as well. You already have enough of this with the Arsonist or any Tier 1 that tends to run into melee, they typically die before the battle is over because all fire gets concentrated on them. |
Originally Posted by perwira
Mathematically, it is best to eliminate one than to injure [two].
Of course, the downside to this is that I'm no longer in BG mode when giving an attack order. |
It's a matter of personal preference, though. Like whether a single target strategy or an AoE strategy is better for Tankers. And I can choose the target for my henchman to aggro on, I just do it by moving him into aggro range with goto, instead of using the attack order. And I always have attack to fall back on. I just don't direct ALL my pets to attack all at once, just enough to take out the foes I think are the greatest threat.
Oh, and for the Tankermind strategy, that's basically diverting attacks away from the henchmen. If they're taking damage as well as you, that's just going to be too much to handle. Plus, you really can't access all of the HP of your henchmen anyway, because of the way it's divided. You'll start to lose your Tier 1 first, and then Bodyguard pretty much starts to fall apart.
Truthfully, I hardly ever utilize BG mode.
My Necro/Dark is strictly solo though so I'm sure that helps. I've just never been in a situation that called for bodyguard.
I'm not a fan of my henchmen acting with a will of their own so 99% of the time I run around in Passive/follow.
The way I work missions is to pull groups into my waiting pack of cannibals. I'll usually goto command them to wait behind a corner, then I'll pick out the boss and lay Darknest Night on him. Generally I never even get hit. By the time the group gets to my location I've laid down Tar Patch. I wait until a large chunk of em are in the patch then hit Attack mode! On the off chance one starts gunning for me I just hit attack again, this gets my guys to hit em enough to get off me. Then a Twilight Grasp has me back at full.
In the past 42 levels I've used BG mode once, that I recall, when everything started falling apart because the Longbow Warden refused to focus on the zombies pounding him in the face and picks me outta the crowd. Dark Servant saved me that time.
Maybe its just /Dark saving my bacon, I just haven't had the need for Bodyguard mode. Even with my settings being +1x8.
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We haven't heard Dech_Kaison enter into this discussion yet, but a key strategy he uses is to def-cap the whole group so that the bot/henchmen are rarely hit, either in BG mode or otherwise. From what I've read in his posts, he prefers the taunt/BG style of play whereby the bots/henchmen as well as the MM will take little damage while delivering a lot more upon the enemy.|
Originally Posted by Jade_Dragon
If they're taking damage as well as you, that's just going to be too much to handle. Plus, you really can't access all of the HP of your henchmen anyway, because of the way it's divided. You'll start to lose your Tier 1 first, and then Bodyguard pretty much starts to fall apart.
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I've tested the non-BG focused-fire stealthed-traps tactic with a currently 45th level MM against 50th/51st/52nd level Cimerorans on the wall and it has proven to be successful, albeit a bit scary at times due to the chancy hit numbers. Sometimes the knockbacks are a blessing in disguise as a few fall over the wall, reducing the fight to a few on few. It's important to take out one Cimeroran at a time with all of their hit points to reduce their attack potential. If my MM gets noticed and then hit, it can get hairy (and scary) as I withdraw while laying traps along the way and putting the bots into def-follow mode to shore us up as a squad. I think this is a pretty good accomplishment - fighting serious foes 6 to 7 levels above you and still managing to hold your own and eventually defeating them. I'm not sure how well this would work with a BG/aggressive style (perhaps someone here can say), but I'm fairly satisfied with how the MM bot/traps combo works with selective 'attack my target' concentrated fire in combination with MM debuff/support actions even outside of BG mode.
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Well, see, while I like the pulling strategy, and use it, I'm not patient enough to use it all the time. Most of the time I prefer to steamroller into the spawn, instead of making them come to me. With my Thugs/Dark this is simple enough, I just send the Bruiser into the middle of the pack, following immediately with a Fearsome Stare. Between the Stare (it's heavily slotted for -Acc) and healing, if needed, I can keep the Bruiser tanking until he gathers the group to him, then my Enforcers start dropping Blast Clips on them. |
Originally Posted by MaestroMavius
The way I work missions is to pull groups into my waiting pack of cannibals. I'll usually goto command them to wait behind a corner, then I'll pick out the boss and lay Darknest Night on him.
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Bots/Traps I don't move in so closely, typically I will flank the group with my Assault Bot and one Drone on one side, and the other two Drones on the other. As they open fire, the return fire is split between them. I don't spend a lot of time laying traps, but I do drop an Acid Mortar, and then basically watch for where I am needed. I'm more passive as the MM on my Bots. I pretty much only use Bodyguard when things are going south, and I try to run in and grab aggro myself to save the Bots. (Or the team)
Honestly speaking, 90% of the time I don't need Bodyguard either, that's why only half of the Henchmen on my team are even in that mode. It's just a sense of security, in knowing that even if I draw some aggro, I will be well protected, even better protected than my Bruiser. I've never used the Tankermind strategy, even though I will likely end up using it for my Ninjas/FF once I get her up to higher levels.
I think it comes down to whether you can stand the way the AI acts. If you can't stand it even in Defensive mode, then you likely will prefer the Passive/Attack strategy.
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Well, I was going to stay out of this, but since my name got dropped...|
Originally Posted by perwira
We haven't heard Dech_Kaison enter into this discussion yet,
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Originally Posted by perwira
but a key strategy he uses is to def-cap the whole group so that the bot/henchmen are rarely hit, either in BG mode or otherwise. From what I've read in his posts, he prefers the taunt/BG style of play whereby the bots/henchmen as well as the MM will take little damage while delivering a lot more upon the enemy.
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In ugly fights, I put provoke on auto before jumping in. In particularly ugly fights, I open up with seekers.
With regards to the concentrate fire thing: 95% of the time my bots are in full bodyguard mode, but I do have a macro that makes the protector bots and the assbot attack and leaves the drones out. Bodyguard is still in effect, but reduced from 75% effective resist to only 60%. Combined with the softcap to ranged/AoE and the caltrops at my feet to keep things out of melee, I still don't take much damage. Throw in triage beacon for icing to the cake. I don't end up using this much, but the times I need it... It's really worth it.
I'm not going to say this is the only way to do things. I'm not even going to claim it's a good way. I'm just saying that "This is what I've done, and it's gotten me this far."
P.S. Thanks for the name-drop. It made me feel special.
EDIT TO ADD:
I've recently started doing this same strategy with a necro/thermal MM. It's only level 12, so the character has yet to feel ... well... like my bots/traps. Regardless, it seems to play similarly enough. I soak alpha then heal myself and the zombies/GK. I expect the strategy to be completely different in the later levels though. I imagine this character as more of a "team player."
EDIT AGAIN TO ADD:
So as not to /threadjack and in an attempt to provide something actually useful to the thread: I know a little trick to get your pets back into bodyguard mode immediately without the 10 second delay of the defensive follow command. I have "g" bound to "petcomall defensive goto" Pressing "g" and then clicking at my feet brings all the robots back to me, even if they were in attack/aggressive mode, but there's no delay before they start firing again.
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I'm new to MM and was wondering how to keep bodyguard on while ordering your pets to focus fire on a target, currently I keep the pets in defensive mode and use a macro "petcom_all attack" so they stay in defensive mode, but once I click this I'm no longer in bodyguard so incoming attacks start to hurt
Normally this is not a problem but if I start getting focused I have no clue how to return to bodyguard while in combat...
Is it possible to order pets to focus fire and stay in bodyguard mode?
How do I return to bodyguard while in combat?
Thanks for the help