I can't say my Fire/Psi, Ice/Ice, Plant/Ice or Earth/Fire's end bars have radically changed since the increaed. None of them have Perma Dom, but /Psi and /Fire both have End gaining powers.
How many toggles are you running? Hot Feet can be a pain by itself let alone with power pools.
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Since Psi got hit the hardest with the nerf bat, its End costs have been raised the most. Not only do you have more End cost for the single target attacks you have that do more damage, but you don't have the huge End DISCOUNT you used to have with Psi Shockwave being treated as a single target attack. Short version is, you may be much better off overall, not having to depend entirely on PSW, but you are also paying much more End.
Quite a few people have also reported high End costs for /Fire as well, and /Energy, even though in the latter case the player usually say the damage is worth it. I think /Fire could be improved by staying away from Flares, but it's still going to be more costly than before. /Ice is about the same, and /Electric is actually somewhat more efficient than it was before, not that End cost was ever really an issue with Electric.
I'd try some new Secondaries if it's a concern to you. The devs have said they are watching the concerns over End, but since that varies by Power Set and there really haven't been any further tweaks to it, I'm guessing things will stand as they are. And really, I'm not sure that refilling the End bar with Domination more often really does make up for the fact that you're just spending more End on attacks.
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Depends at what frequency you are able to refill.|
Originally Posted by Jade_Dragon
And really, I'm not sure that refilling the End bar with Domination more often really does make up for the fact that you're just spending more End on attacks.
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For instance perma dom is considerably more endurance friendly than 1% off of perma dom just by nature of having to refill the entire bar again even though domination is recharged and ready to go a sec or two later than that of a perma dom.
There is also no rule stating that a perma dom can't slot for end reduction as most sets that provide global recharge also reduce endurance cost. Yes a different build could franken-slot more end reduction in, but I'm not sure they would necessarily push it above 60%+ end reduction slotting which is what you get with 5 pieces of decimation/crushing impact + 1 piece from anther set to fill it out. Additionally many of the sets that improve recharge also improve recovery or boost max end.
IME people frankenslotting often push for more recharge enhancement within the power because they don't have it globally in the build, but people spending time on their build recognize the desire to have attacks/powers cycling more often and with less gaps. At any rate frankenslotters aren't that different in their goal, both aim for tighter more seamless power activation and once you remove any sizable gaps your end burn scope really starts to narrow into a set range.
So unless you deliberately go about using a horrible DPE attack(s) as often as possible once you have more recharge having domination come up more often pretty much always increases the amount of available endurance more than it burns. Which really, it makes little sense to use poor dpe powers once you have high recharge because your other powers will be up much sooner. ie a low recharge dom might end up using an aoe attack in their st chain, but a high recharge one would rarely run into that necessity. The recharge also makes other end management tools such as DP, consume, or powersink up more often, which also increases end beyond what you are burning.
I won't pretend that a high recharge dom is more end friendly than a low recharge dom that sits around doing nothing, but they aren't even in the same category of powerfulness so comparing them beyond stating they might belong to the same AT is pretty pointless.
Edit: OP doms went from being perhaps the most endurance friendly non-MM in the game to being not so endurance friendly. Psy assault specifically underwent the largest swing. If you couldn't feel a difference I'd be worried, which has made me question the validity of some posters comments inthe past. Basically your best option without spending huge inf to get domination and DP cycling more often is to pick up powersink. Or start ditching powers like hotfeet or drastically slow down your gameplay. I'd personally go for powersink.
I have a few /Psi doms varying from a 50 Fire/Psi Perma to a lvl 26 Grav Psi on just SO's. My perma, doesn't notice any end usage issues. Sometimes endurance runs out before Dom refills it..but that's rare..and usually because I haven't been paying attention.
My lower lvl /Psi Doms, notice the changes and suffer from them the most. Even after Drain Psyche. Pretty much picking up (and slotting) stamina helps. Even after that carrying blues helps somewhat. The end cost issues were brough up in test and we never really received official word on if they'd be adjusted. /Psi is still pretty much the best AoE set Doms get access too..so I think this is being used to justify the overall end cost. It does make sense..I don't like it..but there you have it. Also with or without perma a Fire/Psi is rolling machine of death, so most people won't be sympathetic to any complaints you may have about the changes. I know..I've been that route already.
My level 50 Dominators:
Madame Mindbender 50 Mind/Energy
Fly Agaric 50 Plant/Thorn
Nate Nitro 50 Fire/Psi
Psi especially, some of the endurance cost issues you're seeing are coming from the increased end cost of Mind Probe, Mental Blast, and especially PSW.
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This is my argument, really. Certainly you want to use the best DPE attacks you possibly can. However, as you use higher damage attacks, your EPS increases. Since those attacks are coming up more often, you are using them more often, and thus you are using more Endurance over time. While it might be less efficient from an DPE standpoint to have a lower recharge, and thus be forced to use a poor DPE power, if the EPS of that power is good (because it has a low DPS) then you will use less Endurance over time. |
Originally Posted by Frosticus
So unless you deliberately go about using a horrible DPE attack(s) as often as possible once you have more recharge having domination come up more often pretty much always increases the amount of available endurance more than it burns. Which really, it makes little sense to use poor dpe powers once you have high recharge because your other powers will be up much sooner. ie a low recharge dom might end up using an aoe attack in their st chain, but a high recharge one would rarely run into that necessity.
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In short, high Damage = high Endurance. It's a direct proportion. (Or as I like to put it, "an attack is a tool for turning Endurance into damage") The more damage you do, the more End you spend. That's obvious. So if you have higher recharge, you are accordingly doing more damage, and spending more Endurance.
The question is whether the EPS recovery of having Domination up more often equals or exceeds the EPS loss of just throwing more high DPS attacks. I agree there is a dramatic jump point where the ability to activate permadom without having to wait for the bar to refill, but that's just for that one small range of recharge. If you compare the recharge required for permadom to the base recharge of a Dominator, or even the recharge with just Hasten, it's quite a different story.
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| The recharge also makes other end management tools such as DP, consume, or powersink up more often, which also increases end beyond what you are burning. |
With Electric Assault it should be the other way around. The more often you can throw melee attacks (which should be up more often anyway) the less Endurance you use compared to the old version. And since you are potentially throwing faster attacks more often, you should be recovering more End with the End drain capability as well. The only wild card is how often you throw Thunder Strike.
Most of the people who say that their change in End cost is minimal appear to be those whose recharge slotting is minimal, and I believe that's significant. You can refuse to believe them if you wish, but since their DPS would be much less than yours anyway, you would probably not want to build that way even if it was more End efficient.
Actually, I suppose it is silly of me to forget this, but the fact that outside of Domination you are doing nearly twice as much damage for the same amount of Endurance is relevant as well. Not that this means that you spend less Endurance, in fact End costs in most cases should have gone up. However, most foes will be dead well before you expend the same End that you spent before. You really should not notice the increase unless you are taking on twice the number of foes. And I think under those circumstances the End cost increase would not be noticed, as much as the larger pile of dead bodies. Obviously if you are never outside of Domination, this performance is not noticable, or is seen as merely the prelude to getting permadom up. (Possibly it is even seen as annoying, as more foes are required for the build up)
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I dont it doesnt really help the over all problem alot, but depending on the level you might frankenslot some IOs into the attacks that are the most expensive.|
Originally Posted by Airhammer
Im playing my Fire/Psi Dom lately and the end cost seems to be a bit over the top. Maybe Fire/Psi uses more end than others but if I didnt have perma-dom and drain psyche to refill my end bar i would say the toon would carry so many blues around he would start playing in clubs in St Louis...
Has any comment been made about the increased end costs??? |
There are a couple sets that have like acc/end and dam/end IOs that will help. I know i did this on a level 50 and only really lost about 1-2 percent on the overall power attributes. For instance, i had slotted damage IOs at 35, which buffed at 36 percent. Normally i would not really have changed those out unless doing full sets. But i put in a dam/end IO from some set, and i think an end/rech from another and then upgraded the common dam to a level 50. So now i have like 44 percent from that, and like 26x2 from the other IO sets. So i get like 96 percent damage buff rather then like 99 or something with all common IOs but i get 26 percent recharge and 26 percent end reduction on them also.
I say try something like that on a few of those more expensive powers and see if that helps some You dont have to give up to much to do it. And your really only trying to cover until your cosume or domination or whatever is recharged.
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If you are using seismic smash to kill things with a sliver left because it is up so often then ya you'll burn a lot more end.|
Originally Posted by Jade_Dragon
This is my argument, really. Certainly you want to use the best DPE attacks you possibly can. However, as you use higher damage attacks, your EPS increases. Since those attacks are coming up more often, you are using them more often, and thus you are using more Endurance over time. While it might be less efficient from an DPE standpoint to have a lower recharge, and thus be forced to use a poor DPE power, if the EPS of that power is good (because it has a low DPS) then you will use less Endurance over time.
In short, high Damage = high Endurance. It's a direct proportion. (Or as I like to put it, "an attack is a tool for turning Endurance into damage") The more damage you do, the more End you spend. That's obvious. So if you have higher recharge, you are accordingly doing more damage, and spending more Endurance. The question is whether the EPS recovery of having Domination up more often equals or exceeds the EPS loss of just throwing more high DPS attacks. I agree there is a dramatic jump point where the ability to activate permadom without having to wait for the bar to refill, but that's just for that one small range of recharge. If you compare the recharge required for permadom to the base recharge of a Dominator, or even the recharge with just Hasten, it's quite a different story. |
Like I said, if you go out of your way to use poor dpe attacks (that includes situationally poor dpe attacks such as massive overkill and aoe vs too few targets) then you can expect to burn a lot of endurance.
Yes High Damage = High End Burn, until you go beyond just improving the recharge value which you seem to be stuck at.
I'll gladly show some examples, but I know you will just quibble about it so why don't you post a powerset combo and state what powers it uses and I'll happily demonstrate what I'm saying.
Unless you are actually just interested in debating over nothing at all...
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Oh, definately. I still think you're underestimating the End cost for pushing your damage over time up so high, though. The problem is that the faster you throw attacks, and the more often you use attacks that have been changed by the rebalance, the more obvious the changes become. Recharge in essense multiplies the difference, both multiplying the increase in damage that has been given, but also multiplying the increase in End Cost. The End management tools, by contrast, have not really changed. With Electric Assault it should be the other way around. The more often you can throw melee attacks (which should be up more often anyway) the less Endurance you use compared to the old version. And since you are potentially throwing faster attacks more often, you should be recovering more End with the End drain capability as well. The only wild card is how often you throw Thunder Strike. Most of the people who say that their change in End cost is minimal appear to be those whose recharge slotting is minimal, and I believe that's significant. You can refuse to believe them if you wish, but since their DPS would be much less than yours anyway, you would probably not want to build that way even if it was more End efficient. Actually, I suppose it is silly of me to forget this, but the fact that outside of Domination you are doing nearly twice as much damage for the same amount of Endurance is relevant as well. Not that this means that you spend less Endurance, in fact End costs in most cases should have gone up. However, most foes will be dead well before you expend the same End that you spent before. You really should not notice the increase unless you are taking on twice the number of foes. And I think under those circumstances the End cost increase would not be noticed, as much as the larger pile of dead bodies. Obviously if you are never outside of Domination, this performance is not noticable, or is seen as merely the prelude to getting permadom up. (Possibly it is even seen as annoying, as more foes are required for the build up) |
Again just state what powers you'd like me to use as an example for you, but if we make the assumption that your doms is always doing something it is unlikely that a decently built +recharge build is less endurance efficient than otherwise. This was drastically so with old domination, but still holds true.
I think what is largely skewing your perception is that without high recharge toons (doms in this case) tend to stand around doing nothing a heck of a lot more than most people realize. A lot more.
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Would you actually do an example without including Domination, or considering Domination only up part of the time, or is that unimportant to you?
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Originally Posted by Frosticus
I'll gladly show some examples, but I know you will just quibble about it so why don't you post a powerset combo and state what powers it uses and I'll happily demonstrate what I'm saying.
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Domination is pretty much consume these days for endurance management. Considering my new and old doms (that aren't perma) and many players I have talked to are primarily using it as an endurance management tool I would consider it to be clicked when necessary provided it is recharged. For this discussion at any rate.|
Originally Posted by Jade_Dragon
Would you actually do an example without including Domination, or considering Domination only up part of the time, or is that unimportant to you?
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easy math example. Base recov = 1.67 eps if we pretend domination recharges in 2 min and is clicked at that time it would equate to an additional 0.835 eps of recovery. If you improve the size of your endurance pool through accolades and/or some IO sets this number will also increase.
Powersink is a little harder to account for and we have to make assumptions about # of targets hit and slotting.
With absolutely no recharge domination is equivalent to 0.5 eps of recovery.
I can pretty much assure you that what you are interpreting as disproportionate end burn with higher recharge is cause almost solely by being able to actually use powers continuously rather than standing around doing absolutely nothing upwards of 40% of the time which is what a lot of doms with no recharge end up doing.
A low recharge dom that found a way to use powers without pause would find themselves out of endurance much faster than a high recharge dom. Conversely, a high recharge dom that stood around doing nothing as often as a low recharge dom would probably never budge on endurance because they could simply wait for the most endurance efficient attack given the situation (ie no overkill, no aoes on singles) and of course have their end management tools up more often.
What ends up happening is people rarely compare apples to apples.
There are a lot of factors that go into it, but that is the jist of the matter.
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So for this discussion it is not relevant that attacks outside of Domination are doing ~37% more damage before, with no proportionate increase in End cost? Sure, if you've got Domination up 75% of the time, you're getting that overall damage boost down into the single digits. But again, is that what counts as relevant to you? Are the only figures that matter those from people who have 67% or greater recharge? AND who are on teams large enough to have their Domination bar ready to go the moment the power recharges?|
Originally Posted by Frosticus
Domination is pretty much consume these days for endurance management. Considering my new and old doms (that aren't perma) and many players I have talked to are primarily using it as an endurance management tool I would consider it to be clicked when necessary provided it is recharged. For this discussion at any rate.
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How about another question, would you say that Electrical Assault is using more Endurance than before? Or would powers from that set not be a valid example?
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Originally Posted by Jade_Dragon
So for this discussion it is not relevant that attacks outside of Domination are doing ~37% more damage before, with no proportionate increase in End cost? Sure, if you've got Domination up 75% of the time, you're getting that overall damage boost down into the single digits. But again, is that what counts as relevant to you? Are the only figures that matter those from people who have 67% or greater recharge? AND who are on teams large enough to have their Domination bar ready to go the moment the power recharges?
How about another question, would you say that Electrical Assault is using more Endurance than before? Or would powers from that set not be a valid example? |
Put your goalpost in somewhere and leave them. I don't know what you want me to tell you, but I've said what I've said and offered what I can offer. If you have no interest in the discussion then ok.
I've already stated that if you give the powersets I'll gladly do w/e comparisons you want. The only reason I haven't done it yet is I know you will just **tch about the choices I made. You aren't doing that so I don't know what you want. I'm guessing nothing as usual.
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I'm just trying to establish the boundaries of this discussion, that's all. I've already said that the End costs are higher for perma-Dom and near perma-Dom builds, for the Power Sets that I mentioned. Psi is clearly the worst of it, because it has undergone a rather serious nerf. For the most part, I am in complete agreement with you, you just chose to latch on to a minor statement, in the last paragraph of my original post, and argue that one point. |
Originally Posted by Frosticus
Put your goalpost in somewhere and leave them. I don't know what you want me to tell you, but I've said what I've said and offered what I can offer. If you have no interest in the discussion then ok.
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You have gone on and on about DPE, but continue to ignore EPS. You are in effect saying, "I'm more efficient now, I do more damage for the End I'm using, I should be using less End." But as has been stated previously, that's not the case if you are doing more damage. If the End increase due to damage is greater than the End saved by efficiency, there will be an overall increase. Efficiency is not the same thing as reduction.
My perception so far is that the people who seem happiest with the changes, and seem to care the least about the End changes, are those who have low recharge builds, and do not concentrate on Domination. My belief is that this is partially the increase in damage which they notice while not in Domination, and partially that while their is an increased End cost, it is not so greatly increased that their current slotting does not come close to compensating. It may be "idle time", where they are waiting for an attack to recharge, but I consider it more likely it is the down time between foes, or the use of low DPA attacks or control powers with lower DPE. (Properly slotted with End to minimize the End over time)
If you can come up with an explanation for that that does not involve questioning the trustworthiness of an observation, I welcome it. I personally think that the uniform solution of trying to throw more recharge at the problem is not best for all sets. The other ATs are able to function just fine without the End recharge advantages of an Inherent like Domination, and that's with base damages that are far lower than Dominators, now. The problem is not the End cost of Dominators overall, it is the comparison of Dominators to what they were before. Those who are adapting a current build seem to have more problems than those who are coming new to the AT. Which is why my suggestion was to try a new combination.
Very few AT's in the game have active primaries and active secondaries that consume endurance on par with a dominator. In fact I don't think any do. Blaster blast sets tend to be incredibly endurance friendly whereas doms have endurance intensive primary control sets and what amounts to endurance intensive assault sets.
You have to look at specific combos within AT's that can burn end like a dom can.
I latched onto your one comment in your first post because it is inaccurate without some heavy qualifiers. Simply put being able to refill domination more often via increased recharge in a build can and does off-set the increase endurance burn that goes along with that increased recharge. The recharge on domination was not changed with the dom revamp so you could only be talking about a global rech build vs a more OEM build. Alone it doesn't, but as a build it does. I agreed with everything else you said in that post, but I though that went without saying as I highlighted what I found incorrect.
I'm not going to explain something within the confines of your observations because that's all they are; your observations. Suffice to say I disagree with them.
That nerf to Psi was ONE OF (many) the most unprofessional blunders I've ever seen in this game... well besides some of the nerfs in WoW. It would have been more work to bring other powers up to par with it's strength, so it gets nerfed lazily, and the next day we wake up, log in, our beloved character we've been paying for for 3 years, is weakened. This still pisses me off.
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Blaster blast sets are no more endurance friendly than the blasts in Dom assault sets, outside of the fact that Blasters have a 1.125 damage modifier, and Doms are only 0.95. The formula is the same, though, End cost and damage scale should be in the same ratio, and Doms should only have more End cost if they have more damage, with the same attack. And most melee attacks in Blaster Secondaries do more damage and cost more Endurance than Dominators, pretty much the opposite. |
Originally Posted by Frosticus
Blaster blast sets tend to be incredibly endurance friendly whereas doms have endurance intensive primary control sets and what amounts to endurance intensive assault sets.
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Of course, the rarity of using Blaster melee attacks if you do not use the Blapper strategy probably compensates for that. Still, I would say the End friendly nature of Blasters is due more to their simply having a higher damage modifier. Doms should have lower end costs than Defenders, Tankers, and certainly Controllers. Even considering that their Primary costs more Endurance, the benefit they gain from those powers is more than mere damage.
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| I latched onto your one comment in your first post because it is inaccurate without some heavy qualifiers. |
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| Simply put being able to refill domination more often via increased recharge in a build can and does off-set the increase endurance burn that goes along with that increased recharge. The recharge on domination was not changed with the dom revamp so you could only be talking about a global rech build vs a more OEM build. Alone it doesn't, but as a build it does. I agreed with everything else you said in that post, but I though that went without saying as I highlighted what I found incorrect. |
Certainly I am talking about a comparison to the OEM build, but I am also talking about the comparison to the previous build. You can make any build End efficient with slotting of End Enhancements, most people slot only the minimum required to maintain an even End level. In the case of Dominators, I believe that people, myself included, only slot enough to reach the minimum End level just before you re-activate Domination, in order to maximize the output of the End bar refill. An increase in End cost will cause you to reach the red earlier than expected, whereas if you'd slotted for End more heavily, you probably would not notice the loss since you wouldn't even be losing End. (Which is the behavior I see with my /Electric)
Approaching this from the other direction, are you making the claim that if you do NOT slot for perma-Dom, and instead leave your recharge at the default, your End costs will actually go UP? This seems to be a claim that I've noticed a lot, (even the OP seemed to express it) that it is impossible to play a Dominator without perma-Dom, as the End cost is so high that the build is unplayable. That you do not want to lose the damage associated with high recharge, that I can understand, that you do not feel like "standing around", or wasting time on Primary powers or long animating attacks, that I can understand. But I cannot understand contradicting people who do not have perma-Dom, myself included, who say that their builds play just fine.
In addition, as far as I know, it is established for other Archetypes that as recharge goes down, their damage and End cost goes up. And Consume and Power Sink are shared by other ATs. So that leaves Domination as the only variable.
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| I'm not going to explain something within the confines of your observations because that's all they are; your observations. Suffice to say I disagree with them. |
Let me ask you, though, while you certainly know about perma-Dom, have you ever actually tried removing all recharge from your build? Not, "I played up to 22, of course I did", or "I could stand around doing nothing, yeah" I mean actually creating a high level build, using all available powers, and slotting appropriately for the build to be successful? I already said previously that I don't believe you would enjoy playing such a build, and I won't argue that. But experience here is far more valuable than blind analysis of numbers.
(And just to say it, the nerf to Psi does throw any analysis of that Secondary out of the ballpark. Some people say it plays well in the early levels, some hate it. I still say that you're going to see a huge increase in End cost, even if you never had PSW to start with. I don't know that it's honest to say it's unplayable without perma-Dom, but at best it's just still playable)
I didn't create dominators for years to use "domination" as a means to refill my end bar.The simple fact that the dominator inherent "domination" has been reduced to an endbar filler( with mez stuff) has turned me off the archetype completely.
Yes, Op in high level play it is not unusual to experience an end problem with Fire//Psi. Try to reslot a few of your most frequently used powers with some end red. Additional amount of recharge for the set has also become somewhat of a neccesity(in my opinion) for end management. Hopefully that will help. I won't play my fire//psi any longer. The change of the pace in play is simply to clunky for me.
Sorry to include my opinion with my response.
Having lost track of exactly what point Jade and Frost are argueing I think I will go back to the OP's original question and attempt to answer it by taking an overall look at the changes made to all dominators, then the specific changes to psi assault.
First, the dev's made 3 general changes to dominators in general and the dominator secondaries:
1) They removed the damage buff from domination and raised the dominator AT mods to .95 ranged and 1.05 melee. The net result of this is that dominators now do the same or slightly better damage than they did in domination all the time. A side effect if this is that a dominators overall max damage is now higher because your maximum damage is your base damage * your damage cap (400% for dom's). The damage buff in domination counted against your damage cap but a higher AT mod does not, which means the effective max damage is now higher.
2) In addition to the damage change it appears that the dev's noticed the popularity of electric assault and based on that decided that dom's would be better off with slower recharging, higher damage attacks, although it also appears they decided that electric assault was to good. As a result, they increased the recharge and damage of many of the asault set powers which also required an increase in end cost (the exception was electric assault where they reduced the recharge, damage and end cost of the melee powers a little). As a result the DPE of most sets stayed the same but the DPA, overall DPS and EPS went up.
3) Finally, the dev's decided to finally fix some of the clearly broken powers/sets in dominators secondaries. While this involved nerfing the clearly overpowered psychic shockwave it also involved fixing the rest of psi assault so that the path to L32 was not as ugly. In addition they fixed energy assault so that it is now the premier single target damage set, primarily by changing power push from an almost no damage control power into a full attack with normal damage for an 8 second recharge attack. For some odd reason they also slightly nerfed flares and combustion in fiery assault by increasing the recharge/end cost but NOT increasing the damage as much as they did for other powers.
Net result: If you where a perma-dom you won't notice much change except for the fact that you now do higher DPS at the cost of more end and even those attacks that didn't change now do slightly higher damage than you did in domination. If you where not a perma-dom you will now see higher damage all the time and may or may not notice the extra end costs (depends on the set). The exception to this is two powers in fiery assault and psi assault users who had built to rely on Psi Shockwave - this power was clearly broken as it had the end costs and recharge of a single target attack but was an AE with a higher than usual area. Even after the changes it is still one of the better PBAE attacks in the dominator sets - with a cast time of 1.97 seconds, which is better than ANY other AE attack, it still has a higher DPA than pretty much any other AE. Overall you will find that Psi assault costs more end to use but that's because it was relying on a broken tier 9 power. ON the other hand, I am working up a mind/psi dominator right now and I don't find it any more end hungry in the teens than any other dominators I have played since i15, so for new players to psi assault I expect the change was an overall win.
As for domination - yes, many people are using it as an end filler power but I don't think that is everyone - it certainly doesn't include me. Prior to getting stamina and SO's (which means I can frankenslot my attacks to include a reasonable amount of end reduction) I DO use it that way but after 22 I pretty much save it for the status effect protection and boost to control powers. What the change to domination means is that you don't HAVE to use it as soon as it's up in order to do decent damage, you can save it for a specific purpose. As far as I am concerned anything that makes you more flexible is good and NOT having to build a perma-dom in order to make a playable character is full of win.
Most of the complaints I have seen about high end use don't make any sense to me - every brute, scrapper, controller and corruptor I have played has about the same end use as my dominators. Heck, most defenders are actually WORSE on end due to having the lowest damage mod of all AT's and relying on a fairly end expensive secondary to overcome that. Only blasters, who are very end efficient due to having the highest AT damage mod in the game plus defiance, and masterminds are more end efficient than all other AT's, which means they are the exception to the rule. Add in the fact that EVERY dominator has a potential end recovery power (domination) and many of the assault sets also have end recovery powers and I find most of the complaints about end use to be petty whining. I would kill for a power like domination on any of the defenders I have played (which isn't many - I can barely stand defenders). Note I do understand the shock of coming back to a build that worked well prior to changes and now doesn't work the way you liked but in many cases all this requires is a slight rebuild to slot a bit more end reduction in attacks, maybe take stamina if you didn't before and you will find in most cases you now kill faster and more efficiently.
About the only folks who have some justification in labelling the changes an overall nerf are those who had domination double and triple stacked regularly. In this case they did get there damage nerfed overall - but the fact that thier damage base is now higher combined with the fact that double and triple stacking domination meant that you got little to no benefit from external buffs means that even in these dominators have more damage POTENTIAL than before the changes. In fact, from what I have heard it takes a pocket kin to regularly get triple stacked domination, which means that those with triple domination can probably use the kin to cap their damage mod now via siphon power and fulcrum shift and do even more damage than they did with triple stacked domination.
Globals: @Midnight Mystique/@Magik13
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I'm not sure there was a point. |
Originally Posted by EricHough
Having lost track of exactly what point Jade and Frost are argueing
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You've summed it up nicely. Really, Psi and Energy both had similar problems as the underperformers of the Dominator world, it's just Psi had PSW after 38. They got similar fixes, even down to what used to be a pure knockback power getting some serious damage, but for Energy that made things better, while with Psi the gains were countered by the serious loss to PSW.
On the surface it doesn't look like Psi is any worse off than Energy (it does a bit less damage, but should use less Endurance) but the drastic change from its previous performance is certainly going to be noticable. You can compensate for that with your slotting, or try something else, your choice. Either should be fine.
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It's a minor point, but I suspect Electric Assault was a testbed for the I15 changes, rather than the Devs noticing its popularity.
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Originally Posted by EricHough
2) In addition to the damage change it appears that the dev's noticed the popularity of electric assault and based on that decided that dom's would be better off with slower recharging, higher damage attacks, although it also appears they decided that electric assault was to good. As a result, they increased the recharge and damage of many of the asault set powers which also required an increase in end cost (the exception was electric assault where they reduced the recharge, damage and end cost of the melee powers a little). As a result the DPE of most sets stayed the same but the DPA, overall DPS and EPS went up.
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As a new player building Fire/Psi, will I now need Stamina? I had hoped to get by with Drain Psyche and Power Sink.
I didn't pick Fire/Psi to farm or revel in my overpowered set. I just like both power sets, and I won't miss the way things were pre-nerf. But I'd like to avoid repetitive resting. Can I do that now without Stamina?
Im playing my Fire/Psi Dom lately and the end cost seems to be a bit over the top. Maybe Fire/Psi uses more end than others but if I didnt have perma-dom and drain psyche to refill my end bar i would say the toon would carry so many blues around he would start playing in clubs in St Louis...
Has any comment been made about the increased end costs???
The hard things I can do--- The impossible just take a little bit longer.
If numbers are so much more important than a teammate who is fun to play with, forget about the game altogether and go play with a calculator instead. -Claws and Effect-