Most Scrapper-ish Villain?!?


Bill Z Bubba

 

Posted

The Villain counter-part of the Scrapper is the Brute.

`nuff said !


 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bill Z Bubba
They have the same sets. They play nothing like scrappers.

Even after the not so recent buffs.
I think you're under the misconception that the recent buffs were made to make them similar.

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Originally Posted by SlyGuyMcFly
Of the two Villainside ATs being discussed, one has most of it's offensive potential tied to being able to achieve and maintain scrapperlock. The other one stops fighting at regular intervals to get the most out of it's offensive power set. Which is more Scrapper-like?
This is exactly the *wrong* way to play a Stalker. The only reason you'd need to stop fighting in the middle of combat is if you want to do something to aid the team (good luck doing that on a Scrapper) by using a mid-fight Assassin's Strike to demoralize all foes. You don't stop on regular intervals to get the most offense from the AT, you stop on regular intervals to get the most *defense* from the AT.

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Originally Posted by MrLiberty
I find it sad when my then level 34 (Pre Shield charge) Elec/SD was more survival and could dish out more damage with one small purple insp than my 47 Elec/EA/Mu stalker was while under the effects of overload. (Who is also HP capped during this time).

If you want something that really can hang with a Scrapper, go brute.
Kind of unfair to compare the survivability of Stalkers to an AT *more* survivable than even Scrappers...

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Originally Posted by Eldorado
I know there are scrappers that can routinely solo +4/x8 missions -- I SUSPECT that a stalker in a room full of +4/x8's would probably, after Assassin Strike and the loss of "Hide", faceplant fairly quickly. I'm not going to claim to be certain, since I haven't got a high level stalker myself, and even if I did who's to say I built it "right?"
Not exactly. If it was a resist based Stalker (with no +def bonuses) then perhaps. Defense based sets can capitalize on demoralizing the mass with an unresisted -7% ToHit and a chance to fear *any* of them 25% of the time. It's an alpha killer. How it's handled from there depends on the set and players. Not every scrapper can solo +4/8x spawns either.

Quote:
and HAVE any stalkers pulled off the "find a spawn with 3 Rikti bosses, no kiting, no inspies or temp powers" challenge? I'd imagine (again) that that many Rikti would be hard to placate and impossible to Hide from again without kiting away.
Kind of unfair to Stalkers, as their specialty is misdirection and what-not. But yes, I remember seeing a video of a Stalker performing this challenge (Energy Aura too). She kept the minions around to feed the heal in Energy Drain. Eventually, she drained everything and they couldn't fight back.

Jade_Dragon is probably the only person to post a truthful, unbiased, well thought out and logical post on this. Scrappers are the generic melee with the others being more specialized (Brute being generic melee too but not as generic). Basically, *any* melee AT can be a 'Scrapper' because the only thing that defines a Scrapper is a melee type that dishes it out and takes it too. Brutes just take a little more and need to be mad to dish it out. Stalkers are everything Scrappers are but take less with opportunistic Sneak attacks added in.


 

Posted

Let's look at it this way and step back from the flames thrown because I can't co sign on half the reasoning because I play all 3 of ATs. I just happen to have more scrappers then the others. The OP is a "scrapper" player and wanted to know if they played red side, what AT would be the most like a scrapper. Meaning, what would be the easiest transition

Now, looking at the basic form of game play solo or on teams, this is a brute, plain and simple. My first villain was a stalker. Knowing nothing about the AT, I saw that it had the same sets so I thought it would be the same. I was wrong. When you learn to play a stalker, you can play one like a scrapper but it still wouldn't be the exact clone of your play style you had with your scrapper with the same sets. The replacement of most of the aoe attacks and taunt auras play a huge part in this.

With a brute, you can play it exactly the same. No adjusting to the different powers because they are the exact same. You can pick up right where you left off.

Its as simple as that. The fact that a stalker can or can't solo AVs (they can) or can or can't do the RWZ challenge isn't even the point. Not all scrappers or brutes can do those things anyway. The difference in the powers coin a different playstyle. That's not bias. That's a fact.


"All problems can be solved by throwing enough scrappers at it."

@Riez on Virtue, Protector, Champion, and Exalted server.

 

Posted

Quote:
I think you're under the misconception that the recent buffs were made to make them similar.
Nope. The buffs were to make them more team friendly in PvE. But I have had several stalker players tell me to give them another chance since those changes went it from players that know I predominantly PvE.

I have. I still found the hide mechanism annoying and the low HP made them too weak for my liking.

Far as I can tell, stalkers are still more closely associated to melee blasters (plate glass short range canons, in this case) than scrappers or brutes regardless of their sets.


Be well, people of CoH.

 

Posted

The only melee I played redside were brutes. When I decided to start a toon blueside the closest thing I could find and enjoy, like I do brutes, was a scrapper. I now have my first hero above level 40. Just my two cents.


Active 50's
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Proud Member of Repeat-Offenders

 

Posted

Quote:
The fact that a stalker can or can't solo AVs (they can) or can or can't do the RWZ challenge isn't even the point.
It's definitely the point when it's specifically answering someone's else comment claiming the difference in survivability between stalkers and scrappers is negligible. Let's try to not make it look like people were saying things they didn't.


 

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Brute...










lol Stalkers


 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Leo_G View Post
This is exactly the *wrong* way to play a Stalker. The only reason you'd need to stop fighting in the middle of combat is if you want to do something to aid the team (good luck doing that on a Scrapper) by using a mid-fight Assassin's Strike to demoralize all foes. You don't stop on regular intervals to get the most offense from the AT, you stop on regular intervals to get the most *defense* from the AT.
*shrugs* My stalkers' M.O. against (solo) bosses and up is to placate -> BU -> AS whenever possible. That is stopping at regular intervals to get the most offence, as placate effectively stops the fight, albeit briefly.

In teams I play all three AT's in pretty much the same way: Jump in and flip out. Helping squishies optional yet encouraged.


 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rieze View Post
The OP is a "scrapper" player and wanted to know if they played red side, what AT would be the most like a scrapper. Meaning, what would be the easiest transition

Now, looking at the basic form of game play solo or on teams, this is a brute, plain and simple. My first villain was a stalker. Knowing nothing about the AT, I saw that it had the same sets so I thought it would be the same. I was wrong. When you learn to play a stalker, you can play one like a scrapper but it still wouldn't be the exact clone of your play style you had with your scrapper with the same sets. The replacement of most of the aoe attacks and taunt auras play a huge part in this.

With a brute, you can play it exactly the same. No adjusting to the different powers because they are the exact same. You can pick up right where you left off.
I was thinking about this earlier, and this IS the point of the OP -- and it sounds like your experiences mirror my own. "When you learn to play a stalker, you can play one like a scrapper...." For my stalker, there was a learning curve, with a different playstyle (and one that I didn't like as much.) With my brutes, I rolled them up, saw my contacts, and went and played just like a scrapper -- with the addition of the rage bar. Plain, simple, and (for me) tons of fun.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rieze View Post
Its as simple as that. The fact that a stalker can or can't solo AVs (they can) or can or can't do the RWZ challenge isn't even the point. Not all scrappers or brutes can do those things anyway. The difference in the powers coin a different playstyle. That's not bias. That's a fact.
Yeah, I fell victim to the flame war and got away from the original post. The point I think I was trying to make -- and missed -- was that sometime, somewhere, some SCRAPPER decided to see how much abuse they could take while soloing Rikti, which is sometimes indicative of the scrapper mindset. If a stalker had come up with it, we'd have the RWZ Stalker Challenge, which would probably require more cunning and skill than just diving into a pile of Rikti with a scream.


"But it wasn't anything some purples and oranges and lots of screaming in fear couldn't handle." -- Werner

30 level 50's: 12 scrappers, 7 other random melee types, 11 blaster/blapper/support squishies, two accounts, and a TON of altitis since 4/28/04