Mission levels messed up?
By
Hellguard,
Posted on: 2009-09-19 20:25 in ALL ACCESS Gameplay Technical Issues Bugs
If the mission has an AV in it, or one of the enemies hard-coded to be an EB (think FrostFire) then you will get EB's in the mission. I wasn't expecting any change here and I don't think we got any change. Seeing EB's in missions is likely WAI.
Even before the changes, I occasionally got +2 enemies in missions when set on Heroic, oddly enough it was mostly on lower level missions in the 8 to 14 range. But I didn't get bosses. I've only gotten bosses on the Midnight Club entry missions unless I had my difficulty raised, or on the extremely rare occaisions that I teamed. Getting +1 to +2 enemies in missions seems to be WAI as well.
I've gotten bosses only in the Midnight Club entry missions so far since I16 released. I've only been running my (now) level 15 TA/Arch Defender, and haven't teamed any or messed with any difficulty settings.
From what I've seen so far, and from what you described your settings as, it seems to me it's WAI unless you are getting bosses in the missions and they aren't the Midnight Club missions. Are you gettingj bosses in other missions? What missions are they?
*shakes Magic 8-Ball just to be on the safe side*
If the game spit out 20 dollar bills people would complain that they weren't sequentially numbered. If they were sequentially numbered people would complain that they weren't random enough.
Black Pebble is my new hero.
Adding to this, some missions also seem to have certain mobs that will spawn below the mission level, specifically the Spelunker badge mission, which, at settings like houtex described, will spawn at least some -2 Minions. There are others in the lower level ranges, but I can't recall which off the top of my head. I've always assumed that those were supposed to happen to make you feel tougher, but it's just as possible that they are bugged, and in need of a clean-up pass done to get them to spawn within the normal rules.
"I wish my life was a non-stop Hollywood movie show,
A fantasy world of celluloid villains and heroes."
*hates the 'click a quick reply button' thing...*
@Texas Justice:
Pardon my ignorance, but what's 'WAI'? I'm guessing something about Way ... Intended or such... but I didn't find it in Google either... help a brother out? 
I've not seen an AV unless my missions are being run with 4 people or so... and each time it was "What, really?! An AV in this one?" Everyone was in a 'huh' moment.
The EBs for 4 is... I guess normal. But not for a lowest level, single person mission. At least, it didn't use to be. Not that I remember... Boss maybe. Certain characters, given what I'm seeing, couldn't solo any more if this were the case. Not with any decent decorum of time vs XP. It might be possible, but it certainly is irritating, the amount of extra time being force upon a character...
Bosses in all missions. All the time. Any character, any server. 10s, 20s, 30s... doesn't matter what level. I'll sometimes go sweeping to get a level rather than try to put up with it, so I can at least get some semblance of balance my character against 3 +0 LTs...
It just seems... harder than the settings indicate. I'm going to have to look into it more deeply... the last couple of characters were sweepers, and contactless, only doing missions if someone else had me on the team, in which case, I didn't care what the fairness was.
---
@ Ms. Mesmer:
Every once in a blue moon, the -1 mobs will show up... but it's not frequent.
---
Here's something to note... while the missions are spawing +1s and EB end bosses, the ambushes are all +0. So there's that. So far.
Needs more experimenting... maybe it's an 'old character vs new character' thing... Hm...
August 31, 2012. A Day that will Live in Infamy. Or Information. Possibly Influence. Well, Inf, anyway. Thank you, Paragon Studios, for what you did, and the enjoyment and camaraderie you brought.
This is houtex, aka Mike, signing off the forums. G'night all. - 10/26/2012
Well... perhaps I was premature about that whole 'signing off' thing... - 11-9-2012
Quote:
Working As Intended
|
Originally Posted by houtex
Pardon my ignorance, but what's 'WAI'? I'm guessing something about Way ... Intended or such... but I didn't find it in Google either... help a brother out?
|
Quote:
The "no AV" setting only makes AVs appear as EBs, so that is why you see EBs so much - you're getting them instead of AVs. I don't remember that many lower level missions on hero side that have AVs/EBs in them, though - only a few at the end of story arcs (The Hollows arcs come to mind).|
Originally Posted by houtex
I've not seen an AV unless my missions are being run with 4 people or so... and each time it was "What, really?! An AV in this one?" Everyone was in a 'huh' moment.
The EBs for 4 is... I guess normal. But not for a lowest level, single person mission. At least, it didn't use to be. Not that I remember... Boss maybe. Certain characters, given what I'm seeing, couldn't solo any more if this were the case. Not with any decent decorum of time vs XP. It might be possible, but it certainly is irritating, the amount of extra time being force upon a character... Bosses in all missions. All the time. Any character, any server. 10s, 20s, 30s... doesn't matter what level. I'll sometimes go sweeping to get a level rather than try to put up with it, so I can at least get some semblance of balance my character against 3 +0 LTs... ... --- @ Ms. Mesmer: Every once in a blue moon, the -1 mobs will show up... but it's not frequent. --- Here's something to note... while the missions are spawing +1s and EB end bosses, the ambushes are all +0. So there's that. So far. Needs more experimenting... maybe it's an 'old character vs new character' thing... Hm... |
Also, there is a separate setting for bosses which for some reason does not show on your mission tab. You can choose to fight bosses at boss strength or have them "demoted" to LT. You may have it set to fight bosses. I'm not sure what the default is for that particular setting.
As for the level of enemies, with difficulty set to +0, you should usually see only +0 and +1 enemies. However, there are some missions that will have larger groups of lower level baddies (-1 or -2) near the front of the mission and then gradually get higher level (and smaller/normal groups) as you progress through the mission. The mission in The Hollows where you fight Atta (Troll leader) is a good example of this.
Short answer: may be working as intended, depending on what your boss setting is.
If mission contains EB, it will be there even if you solo and on heroic. It was always like that.
WAI = Working As Intended
EB's/AV's : I haven't played with the settings yet, but if you run a mission that normally has an AV (such as Dr. Vahzilok, Captain Castillo and the other AV's in the Faultline arc, the Envoy of Shadows, or any other critter coded as an AV) they SHOULD show up as an EB if you have it set to No AV's, unless part of that is overriden by team size. Since you had mentioned soloing and your level 11 character I was assuming you were soloing most of this, in which case you will get that enemy as an EB. If you are on a team, it changes how the rules are handled, especially depending on team size and I'll defer to those more experience with how it affects teams to give the outcome there.
There is one mission that I can think of on the Hero side that the end boss is specifically coded to be an EB, and that is FrostFire. On the Villain side the Longbow Ballista's are EB's as is Emil Marcone. I don't think the coding exists to force these to spawn as AV's.
So far, the only missions I've had Bosses spawn in have been the Midnighter Club entry arc given by Montague Castanella. I've always had bosses spawn in these missions, and have gotten really really tired of filing /bug reports about it.
None of my other missions has had a boss spawn in it, even the ones with Named bosses, such as Bonebreaker. They've spawned as a Lt. each time, just as they are supposed to. It is such a rare occasion for me to team that I'm used to this behavior, especially at the lower levels. At higher levels it depends on what AT I'm playing as to what my difficulty is set to.
I guess it is possible that a setting is hung and you may need to change the setting to something else, and then change it back in order to get it to "stick". I generally recommend making the change, exiting all discussions with the NPC, zoning (bases are my prefered zoning choice for this) then zoning back and talking to the NPC again to change it back to the setting you want.
As for the old character vs new character thing, well, all of mine are old characters. The last new character I created was my BrSw/Shield Scrapper.
If the game spit out 20 dollar bills people would complain that they weren't sequentially numbered. If they were sequentially numbered people would complain that they weren't random enough.
Black Pebble is my new hero.
Another low level EB on blue side, besides FrostFire, is Atta.
BNY mission also contains Snaptooth EB, doesn't matter what level you are or what your diff settings
I'd forgotten about Atta, and the ParagonWiki article I looked at for reference didn't mention him specifically so I didn't get my reminder.
I believe the version of Snaptooth that spawns in the Valentine missions from DJ Zero also is limited to being an EB. I know he spawns first as a Lt., then as a Boss, then as an EB. You have to defeat the EB version 5 times to get the badge IIRC.
If the game spit out 20 dollar bills people would complain that they weren't sequentially numbered. If they were sequentially numbered people would complain that they weren't random enough.
Black Pebble is my new hero.
Boiling it down:
Ok, I think I get it... EBs may be a part of life, and if so, that's fine. As long as they're +0 EBs, then it makes sense, and I can live with that.
But if they're +1s, or the mobs are all +2s... that's jacked up. Is there NO consensus on this bit? Not even a little? I'm set to the LOWEST POSSIBLE SETTING... why am I even getting these results?
Please don't interpret the caps as yelling... It' more emphasis on the point. Lowest possible shouldn't produce +2s, at all.
Again, unless I missed something. I've been playing this game in a teamed or sweep mode, and haven't been paying as much attention to the missions as I probably should have... but it still seems like I don't remember the lowest settings producing these weird results.
August 31, 2012. A Day that will Live in Infamy. Or Information. Possibly Influence. Well, Inf, anyway. Thank you, Paragon Studios, for what you did, and the enjoyment and camaraderie you brought.
This is houtex, aka Mike, signing off the forums. G'night all. - 10/26/2012
Well... perhaps I was premature about that whole 'signing off' thing... - 11-9-2012
If you are in a teamed mode, what are the other players settings at? If they have theirs set differently, it will likely cause different results from what you would get if you were solo.
I'm not sure what you are referring to by "sweep mode" so can't comment on that.
As for the mob levels, I've gotten the occasional +2 mobs in missions for a couple of years now. I don't think I've ever gotten a map with only +2's in it, it's generally a map that is back-loaded. Again, my results are solo so they would definitely differ from a teamed players results and possibly someone in this "sweep mode" whatever it is.
If the game spit out 20 dollar bills people would complain that they weren't sequentially numbered. If they were sequentially numbered people would complain that they weren't random enough.
Black Pebble is my new hero.
*still hating the 'click on a quick reply button' thing*...
Not a team. Just me. And I'm getting +2 mobs in missions. On Heroic. Wrong. My opinion, of course, based on memories that this used to not be the case.
Sweep Mode is to do street sweeping, not missions. I have characters which I don't do missions with. Kind of a concept thing. Wayfun.
I am getting maps with 80% +2s. And I just leveled, and started a new mission... +2s.
Not tryin' to argue, just reportin' in. Thanks for tryin' to help, I do appreciate the efforts, believe me!
August 31, 2012. A Day that will Live in Infamy. Or Information. Possibly Influence. Well, Inf, anyway. Thank you, Paragon Studios, for what you did, and the enjoyment and camaraderie you brought.
This is houtex, aka Mike, signing off the forums. G'night all. - 10/26/2012
Well... perhaps I was premature about that whole 'signing off' thing... - 11-9-2012
Quote:
Sorry, the bolded and colored part above is what confused me.|
Originally Posted by houtex
Again, unless I missed something. I've been playing this game in a teamed or sweep mode, and haven't been paying as much attention to the missions as I probably should have... but it still seems like I don't remember the lowest settings producing these weird results. |
I still think something is "stuck" in your settings and you need to set it to something different, zone, reset it to what you want it to be and zone again to see if it sticks.
As for street sweeping, mobs generally spawn in relation to team size and close to the level of the team, even if it's a solo team, as long as they are of an appropriate level for the zone. Also, many zones have sections that spawn only specific levels in specific areas so that those toward the bottom end of the zones level range have something appopriately levelled to fight. However, someone slightly higher level could have passed through the area and they spawned in relation to that player that came through first.
All in all, since I'm not seeing the same thing on my missions, and no one else seems to be reporting a problem with it, I still think it's something "stuck" in your settings.
If the game spit out 20 dollar bills people would complain that they weren't sequentially numbered. If they were sequentially numbered people would complain that they weren't random enough.
Black Pebble is my new hero.
Roger that, was kind of thinking a similar 'stuck' idea... gonna roll a new one and see what happens... keep notes... that whole boring "verify testing" thing. 
Thanks for yer inputs!
August 31, 2012. A Day that will Live in Infamy. Or Information. Possibly Influence. Well, Inf, anyway. Thank you, Paragon Studios, for what you did, and the enjoyment and camaraderie you brought.
This is houtex, aka Mike, signing off the forums. G'night all. - 10/26/2012
Well... perhaps I was premature about that whole 'signing off' thing... - 11-9-2012
Hey all.
Let's say I'm set to Challenge Level 0, aka Heroic (for Heroes), or as it's shown in the window:
Level: +0 (x0 players) No AV
Now, I interpret that to be...
+0, or the same level. Therefore, I'm an 18, the mission is an 18, I should expect level 18 minions, yes?
(x0 players), or I am soloing, and do not have it set to think there's more than me.
No AV is pretty self explanatory.
First question: Am I correct in this assumption of same level as mission, no additional critters beyond solo, no AVs?
---
Now, assuming that I'm right in my interpretation... I should expect same level critter minions and LTs, with the occasional bump up +1... and maybe a +0 boss every so often... right?
And yet... I'm winding up with +1 and even +2 critter minions, LTs and bosses... and +0 EBs at the end of some missions. Which seems a bit off, given I'm saying I'm milquetoast.
Did I miss some memo about increasing basic difficulties behind our backs or...?
I thought at first maybe it was on a particular character, but I'm finding that it seems to be all of them across the board.
Is it just me?
'Cause if it is, I want a special medal or something for puttin' up with that at level 11...
August 31, 2012. A Day that will Live in Infamy. Or Information. Possibly Influence. Well, Inf, anyway. Thank you, Paragon Studios, for what you did, and the enjoyment and camaraderie you brought.
This is houtex, aka Mike, signing off the forums. G'night all. - 10/26/2012
Well... perhaps I was premature about that whole 'signing off' thing... - 11-9-2012