Would you mind posting your Fire/Shield/Blaze build? I've got an alt that I plan to go this route with and I'd like to see some builds along these lines.
Mainly, I'm looking to make one that is fun to play and slices through crowds with AoEs. Also, for concept purposes, I'd really like to fit Fly into his build. I just hope I can figure out how to do all that and still reach the softcap.
I am sure a Fire/Shield/Blaze will be a beast, but I'm having far FAR FAR too much fun with my Elec/Shield so far. She is BRUTAL, there's just no other way to describe it. Shield Charge + Lightning Rod is just awesome. I haven't even gotten to the softcap yet, 30% at all positions is enough because everything dies so fast! Level 42, Can't wait to get to 50 and have Fireball and have the proper sets slotted instead of freakish frankenslotting on everything.
I run at x4 instead of x8 because that way I can pull two spawns together for the SC + LR (or three if one of the spawns has two bosses), much faster when doing story arcs for the merits. Those clear alls aren't so bad this way 
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Agreed. An IO'd Elec/shield will easily outperform a fire/shield any day IMO. Now if scrapper fire melee had combustion like it should have it would be the other way around. But since it doesnt, the elec/shield definitely wins out.
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I beg to differ. I have an IO'ed out electric/shield/mu brute and fire/shield/blaze scrapper, and can easily compare them side by side. LR and shield charge are great but FSC recharges extremely fast (20 seconds base vs. 90 seconds for LR) as do fireball. Combustion is not needed.|
Originally Posted by Windenergy21
Agreed. An IO'd Elec/shield will easily outperform a fire/shield any day IMO. Now if scrapper fire melee had combustion like it should have it would be the other way around. But since it doesnt, the elec/shield definitely wins out.
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What I've noticed is while both the electric/shield and fire/shield can wipe out an entire spawn (electric/shield in two attacks - LR+SC, fire/shield in 3 - FSC+SC+FB), the electric/shield will kill the second group noticeably slower while the fire/shield can still use FSC and fireball. Both can wipe out every other mob group pretty much instanteously, the difference is in the mobs in between. Thunderstrike, Jacob's Ladder and Chain Induction are no match for Fire Sword Circle.
I'd say Elec/Shield/Blaze will probably end up at the top of the list.
I don't much go for +4's just +2's on mine and you don't need L-Rod + Shield charge to clear the group. Just L-Rod, then clean up. Next one Shield charge, then clean up. *note* I don't have Fireball on mine, went for an all around scrapper with some tastey Regen and Physical Perfection.
I imagine if you just wanted to farm, an Elec/Shield/Blaze would be the way to go. L-Rod/Fireball/Thunder strike for the first mob Shield Charge/Fireball/Thunder strike for the next. If you are running it as a farm type situation its not that difficult to get serious perma buffs from inspirations by just burning your first row (Jamming F1 between spawns) so the lack of Build up for one spawn or the other means less than it normally would.
FSC is extremely awesome but alternating nukes wins the day in that situation. And from personal experience thunder strike with the armaggeddon proc makes the power about twice as sexy an an AoE. 
Try the Force Feedback +Rech proc in TS, I don't know if it's placebo effect or what (the mechanics of that proc make my head hurt) but it seems to go off a lot, and it's TASTY!
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So, any chance that y'all that prefer Fire/Shield/Blaze could post a build?
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yar, not to mention fire/shield is better for AV soloing :3
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Originally Posted by Fury Flechette
I beg to differ. I have an IO'ed out electric/shield/mu brute and fire/shield/blaze scrapper, and can easily compare them side by side. LR and shield charge are great but FSC recharges extremely fast (20 seconds base vs. 90 seconds for LR) as do fireball. Combustion is not needed.
What I've noticed is while both the electric/shield and fire/shield can wipe out an entire spawn (electric/shield in two attacks - LR+SC, fire/shield in 3 - FSC+SC+FB), the electric/shield will kill the second group noticeably slower while the fire/shield can still use FSC and fireball. Both can wipe out every other mob group pretty much instanteously, the difference is in the mobs in between. Thunderstrike, Jacob's Ladder and Chain Induction are no match for Fire Sword Circle. |
Fire/shield/blaze sounds like an END pig to me. How you gonna deal? Just slotting?
Kinda seems like spines will still be a better AoEer to me.
Just saying.
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Yes FSC is DPS wise far better than lightning rod, but elec doesn't JUST have lightning rod. Oh, and um... you can still pick up fireball on the elec/shield too......|
Originally Posted by Fury Flechette
I beg to differ. I have an IO'ed out electric/shield/mu brute and fire/shield/blaze scrapper, and can easily compare them side by side. LR and shield charge are great but FSC recharges extremely fast (20 seconds base vs. 90 seconds for LR) as do fireball. Combustion is not needed.
What I've noticed is while both the electric/shield and fire/shield can wipe out an entire spawn (electric/shield in two attacks - LR+SC, fire/shield in 3 - FSC+SC+FB), the electric/shield will kill the second group noticeably slower while the fire/shield can still use FSC and fireball. Both can wipe out every other mob group pretty much instanteously, the difference is in the mobs in between. Thunderstrike, Jacob's Ladder and Chain Induction are no match for Fire Sword Circle. |
Alternating LR/SC for each mob. t-strike and FB as one above mentioned, will be the key. Chain and jacob's are icing.
Assuming conditions are the same, 65% damage from AAO, not quite max but good high average when farming. And assuming 1/3 recharge on attacks when IO slotted.
Fire Melee:
FSC: 96.98 + 20.03 (avg damage of dot per chance) = 117.01/20s rech/10 targets
BoF: 85.08 + 20.03 = 105.11/10s rech/10 targets
Fireball: 79.8 + 20.03 = 99.83/32s/16 targets
Shield Charge: (133.46 is current, should be fixed soon to 188.86)
188.86 x 2.6 = 491.04
FSC: 117.01 x 2.6 = 304.23/ 6.66s/ 10 targets
BoF: 105.11 x 2.15 = 225.99/ 3.33s/ 10 targets
FB: x 2.6 = 259.59/ 10.66s/ 16 targets
SC: 188.86 x 2.6 = 491.04/30s/16 targets
Elec Melee:
Lightning Rod: 200.20 x 2.6 = 520.52/30s/16 targets
T-strike: 60.06 x 2.6 = 156.15/6s/10 targets
Chain: 58.39 x 2.6 = 151.82/4.66s/5 targets
Jacob's: 103.2 x 2.6 = 268.32/2.66s/5 targets
Fireball: 99.83 x 2.6 = 259.59/10.66s/16 targets
Shield Charge: 188.86 x 2.6 = 491.04/30s/16 targets
And don't forget, brutes don't have the same damage as scrappers. Even yes nice you get fury, when farming will have time in between mobs to dissapate, but fury works as a damage buff, not as higher base damage, and the big one is that brute melee isn't as strong as scrappers. For a strict example, Brute lightning rod is only 133.47 damage, whereas scrapper melee is 200.20 damage. Compared to every attack that's a huge difference. And editing CI/t-strike with these configured off of tomax's brute values.
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its a placebo effect, the buff doesn't last anywhere near long enough to really matter for the most part. I even tried placing one in both psy tornado, and one in repulsion bomb on my ff/psy defender. Even when they seemed to fire each time i used the powers, they were much better off when slotted with a common recharge IO. And likewise for the reliability i didn't really even notice it on anything else that mattered either.
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Originally Posted by Aliana Blue
Try the Force Feedback +Rech proc in TS, I don't know if it's placebo effect or what (the mechanics of that proc make my head hurt) but it seems to go off a lot, and it's TASTY!
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You won't get 10 targets in T-strike very often. Same with getting 5 in Chain Induction and Jacob's Ladder. I love theory craftng too, but even in densely packed farms it would be difficult to max out the numbers for these attacks while it's trivial to do the same with FSC and fireball. The actual, and more realistic numbers, you'd get is about a third or half of the max number. And yes, that's even with spending the time to try to position the cones every single time. I've logged many, many hours on my electric brute and while I'm happy to get a max number of targets, I know realistically I get far less.|
Originally Posted by Windenergy21
Elec Melee:
Lightning Rod: 200.20 x 2.6 = 520.52/30s/16 targets T-strike: 60.06 x 2.6 = 156.15/6s/10 targets Chain: 58.39 x 2.6 = 151.82/4.66s/5 targets Jacob's: 103.2 x 2.6 = 268.32/2.66s/5 targets Fireball: 99.83 x 2.6 = 259.59/10.66s/16 targets Shield Charge: 188.86 x 2.6 = 491.04/30s/16 targets And don't forget, brutes don't have the same damage as scrappers. Even yes nice you get fury, when farming will have time in between mobs to dissapate, but fury works as a damage buff, not as higher base damage, and the big one is that brute melee isn't as strong as scrappers. For a strict example, Brute lightning rod is only 133.47 damage, whereas scrapper melee is 200.20 damage. Compared to every attack that's a huge difference. And editing CI/t-strike with these configured off of tomax's brute values. |
And the dissipation rate of fury on +4 x 8 maps is very low; you've superjumped or superspeeded to the next large group before it's dissipated. In farms, my brute is constantly at 80-90 percent fury except for the very first group where I'm building it up. While I'm not sure of the actual amount of damage, largely because I haven't paid attention to it, I'm pretty sure it's comparable to or better than what a scrapper can do. Also note that brutes and scrappers do exactly the same damage with shield charge.
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The proc's not there to recharge Thunder Strike.|
Originally Posted by Windenergy21
Even when they seemed to fire each time i used the powers, they were much better off when slotted with a common recharge IO.
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It's there to recharge Lightning Rod and Shield Charge, which should already be at 90%+ recharge
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Let's stop with the hyperbole in this topic. On average, LR+SC or FSC+SC+FB will not kill a +4 x8 spawn, even with BU and maxed AaO, even without considering bosses.
Numbers :
At level 54, minions have 435 hp. Lieutenants have 865 hp. Bosses have 2730 hp. The purple patch means powers deal only 48% damage.
FSC does 126.5 base damage (averaging dots and crits).
Fireball does 74 base damage (averaging dots and crits).
SC does 133.5 base damage.
Lightning Rod does 200.2 base damage.
Assuming maxed AaO (+80% damage), good damage slotting (+95% damage), and BU (+100% damage), we're at 3.75 damage.
FSC = 126.5 * 3.75 = 474.5
FB = 74 * 3.75 = 277.5
SC = 133.5 * 3.75 = 500.7
LR = 200.2 * 3.75 = 750.8
FSC + FB + SC = 1252.7
Against +4s = 601.3
LR + SC = 750.8 + 500.7 = 1251.5
Against +4s = 1251.5 * 0.48 = 600.7
Under BU and maxed AaO, these combos will kill minions, but leave lieutenants and bosses alive. With ~250 hp left for lieutenants, adding procs won't do the trick either. In actual gameplay for fire, crits will often kill one lieutenant, maybe two, but killing all of them happens once per hour at most, it's definitely not the average. Regardless, bosses are still alive and well.
I've got my Elec/Shield/Blaze scrapper to 48 now. with the exception of a couple LOTG 7.5s and the Zepher proc he's completely IO'd slotted up Fireball.. and most of the time you can go in with Lightning Rod + Fireball and the mob is dead.
Next mob, Shield Charge + Thunderstrike and then clean up bosses and anything that may have survived.
Eventually when I get purp sets on him he'll have Shield Charge and Lightning Rod recharging every 30 seconds.
If you want a good laugh though, run a Katie TF with 2 Elec/Shield scrappers or Tanks. With the new Exempting lvls you'll have both Lightning Rod and SHield Charge.
The mobs that spawn with Mary are dead in seconds leaving only the AV to go.
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Yes i know, but for only lasting 5 seconds what i was saying was that for when it goes off which isn't guaranteed, it doesn't last long enough to be even much use to anything else that recharges. It simply doesn't last long enough, that i get better mileage having the aoe in this case t-strike, recharge faster than the super tiny bit it helps on the other powers.
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Originally Posted by Aliana Blue
The proc's not there to recharge Thunder Strike.
It's there to recharge Lightning Rod and Shield Charge, which should already be at 90%+ recharge |
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HEHE, yeah can't wait to do that :P
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Originally Posted by Radmind
I've got my Elec/Shield/Blaze scrapper to 48 now. with the exception of a couple LOTG 7.5s and the Zepher proc he's completely IO'd slotted up Fireball.. and most of the time you can go in with Lightning Rod + Fireball and the mob is dead.
Next mob, Shield Charge + Thunderstrike and then clean up bosses and anything that may have survived. Eventually when I get purp sets on him he'll have Shield Charge and Lightning Rod recharging every 30 seconds. If you want a good laugh though, run a Katie TF with 2 Elec/Shield scrappers or Tanks. With the new Exempting lvls you'll have both Lightning Rod and SHield Charge. The mobs that spawn with Mary are dead in seconds leaving only the AV to go. |
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Yes, "now" because it's incorrect. But it should be fixed shortly. And all the other attacks for the scrapper will have a higher base damage as well. For example lets look at jacob's ladder: Lets assume the 65% from AAO, and you're 85% fury| Also note that brutes and scrappers do exactly the same damage with shield charge. |
Brute: 62.56 x 4.3 = 269.01
Scrapper: 103.2 x 2.6 = 268.32
About the same right? But now though you can't say when, when dealing with aoes its almost a certainty for a few, so figure in critical hits. Also any +damage bonuses per set will push the scrapper much higher than the brute will, and this is all with you HAVING to be at that high fury to try to reach the scrappers damage. For both builds which have 27.5% damage bonus in my builds:
Brute: 62.56 x 4.575 = 286.21
Scrapper: 103.2 x 2.875 = 296.7
And if you're herding you def get in close to 10 on t-strike. But when i farm i dont usually herd, but they still tend to gather in close, getting usually a minimum of 7 in t-strike. Starting the attack chain with Chain induciton, i always get 5 targets with chain. And jacobs, i usually get 3 on average in it. But likewise you'd have to reconfigure BoF as well. I certainly wouldn't say that fire mele isn't "easier" with FSC, but i wouldn't say that it trumps the elec/shield.
Also to Nihili, for what you were trying to prove, is exactly the reason i'd never suggest farming +4s by yourself. +3s when fully IOd is the sweet spot. Before your build is complete +2s go by very quickly as well. Also you're not giong to have build up up very mob, only every other mob. To average better, build up with one mob, and shield charge on the other for the fire/shield. On the elec/shield build up with SC, and then LR on its own for the other mob.
LR: 200.20 x 2.875 = 575.58
T-strike: 60.06 x 2.875 = 172.67
Fireball: 99.83 x 2.875 = 287.01
Total mob 1: 1035.26 x .65 = 672.92
Build up: +100%
Shield Charge (with upcoming corrected value): 188.86 x 3.875 = 731.83
T-Strike: 60.06 x 3.875 = 232.73
Fball = 99.83 x 3.875 = 386.84
Total Mob 2: 1434.56 x .65 = 932.46
So any level (soloing set for no bosses) will take out with the 2nd iterational mob. On mob 1, you'll be using Chain and jacobs to take care of most of anything that's left rather quickly.
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So enough theory crafting!
This is what an Elec/Shield looks like fighting +4's. No fireball, but by the time you are done with all the left overs, you give Lightning Rod/Shield Charge *plenty* of time to charge up. I'm not sure if fireball would be a *huge* impact to the point where you could seamlessly go from spawn to spawn simply because... stuff runs.
Not a build I built for farming or anything, just an all around scrapper I enjoy playing.
I'd be interested to see how a Fire/Shield/Blaze does it though for some comparison.
http://www.wegame.com/watch/Elec_Shield_Body_Scrapper/
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That's a great looking vid. Sadly, every time I've tried to make a video and upload it to Wegame, it looks really crappy. If you're still interested in seeing one in action, I'd be happy to invite a character you make onto a mission and have you see for yourself. My global is @Fury Flechette and I play almost exclusively on Virtue.
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Originally Posted by MrLiberty
So enough theory crafting!
This is what an Elec/Shield looks like fighting +4's. No fireball, but by the time you are done with all the left overs, you give Lightning Rod/Shield Charge *plenty* of time to charge up. I'm not sure if fireball would be a *huge* impact to the point where you could seamlessly go from spawn to spawn simply because... stuff runs. Not a build I built for farming or anything, just an all around scrapper I enjoy playing. I'd be interested to see how a Fire/Shield/Blaze does it though for some comparison. http://www.wegame.com/watch/Elec_Shield_Body_Scrapper/ |
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I'm also in the same boat as you. While fireball of course would add added aoe damage, i'm just not comfortable with all the next to useless prerequisites needed to get to there. I'm much happier on my build with 6 slotted FA for the Gaussian globals and physical perfection.|
Originally Posted by MrLiberty
So enough theory crafting!
This is what an Elec/Shield looks like fighting +4's. No fireball, but by the time you are done with all the left overs, you give Lightning Rod/Shield Charge *plenty* of time to charge up. I'm not sure if fireball would be a *huge* impact to the point where you could seamlessly go from spawn to spawn simply because... stuff runs. Not a build I built for farming or anything, just an all around scrapper I enjoy playing. I'd be interested to see how a Fire/Shield/Blaze does it though for some comparison. http://www.wegame.com/watch/Elec_Shield_Body_Scrapper/ |
If you wanted an aoe at that point you could go for energy torrent for extra if you wanted to. Not hard to use if you use cj/hurdle.
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Anyone out there still reading? Well here we go! Real live in game stuff, no numbers or theory crafting!
I hopped over to Virtue tonight and with permission Fury Flechette let me record the Fire/SD/Blaze in action. As it turns out? I'm a lousy cameraman. With me in the mission bosses decided to show up sooooo after recording that I went back and redid my Video to include bosses this time as well for my Elec/SD
The results!!!
http://www.wegame.com/watch/Elec_SD_Again/
http://www.wegame.com/watch/Fury_Fle...Fire_SD_Blaze/
Hate to say it, but I think this will be cat's meow for quite some time. I just spec'ed into blaze mastery and fire sword circle -> shield charge -> fire ball is as good as I thought it would be. I think there will be a lot of these rolled up in the coming weeks.
I've been farming +level 4 x 8 on the Axis America map and everything just disintegrates. IO'ed up, this build kills about as fast as a top end fire/kin.