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That missing element is body mastery (which has conserve power and physical perfection) which, coupled with electrics oddly endurance efficient attacks, is why you see a more bottomed out end bar. Electric also has more mitigation due to KD in thunderstrike, so it's totally reasonable to expect less health to be taken.|
Originally Posted by Windenergy21
I don't understand Fury's video. It looks like she's at zero endurance the entire battle. Also noting it seems like its taking her longer. From what i could see i'm assuming she has bosses in hers where MR's did not. However she also had fireball whereas the elec/shield did not. Was also getting hurt much more than the elec/shield was. Going to assume moreso if she had bosses as to the reason.
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I expect these combos will perform exceptionally, but in different circumstances. Fire/shield/Fire may outperform Ele/shield/X on lower difficulty settings, with bosses allowed, where recharge is paramount, and where LR is over kill.
-However, Electric is the more AoE oriented primary! For it to simply be better at fighting large spawns of enemies is likely the case.
Fighting Level 54's, the huge damage from LR+Shield Charge is necessary to get the spawn diminished enough to finish off with any sort of speed. That's apparent in the videos.
This is why generally* speaking though, fighting +4's isn't recommended. The reward vs time falls off, just an interesting challenge.
*Res/Def Debuffs can make a 54 feel like fighting a 52 or less easily, and those can be handled by builds like these in about the same time as anything else so there would be no reason NOT to fight 54's with that present.
"Fascinating. I'm not bored at all, I swear." -Kikuchiyo
They were actually really close, first as far as times go. Both of us took on 4 spawns worth of +4's each with two bosses in them. (If you look close you can make out Archons have a different hat/helmet than the LT's, that and the HP difference) FF did stop to reply a few times which would have made the times even closer (As I just ran through mine)
Bosses weren't exactly part of the plan, more that Fireball/FSC were better at clearing LT spawns. Elec's advantage in that situation was a very consistent AoE DPS between two bosses. Where fire likely brings a heavier DPS to one at a time.
As for damage taken, I think like Katten said, between Lightning Rod and Thunder strike Elec has more mitigation and luck might have been on my side. I've had runs in the past where I've dipped into red because a few unlucky eagles claws and +4 bosses do tend to hit hard when they connect. As for end, having /Blaze over Physical perfection with a performance shifter proc definitely makes a big difference. That and elec (for me) has always been pretty efficient. In this situation a +4 boss is definitely much more of an endurance strain than just LT's and Minions though.
I think in the end though if you were to remove the bosses from the equation the times would be much closer.
cool vids, you guys should run it with +2's though, just cause +4's are kinda lame.
I think it would highlight each builds ability to roll quickly through spawns that would be more akin to what happens in teams (even fighting +4's).
Also given that the elec/shield's blue bar didn't even budge have you considered going with fireball yourself? I realize it largely didn't budge because of CP and PP, but would be neat to see an elec/shield/blaze in action. Fireblast should also help with st damage for stragglers.
The spawns also looked a little small for 8man setting? I run that same map on my plant/kin +2-3/8 and I feel like I have bigger groups, but maybe not.
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Nono, that's not what i meant. I mean, you can't SEE the end bar. I know its not at zero the entire time, and that PP helps with end. Also to the health more-so pertaining to wondering how she has her build set up, and to the fact to figure out if she was fighting bosses.
| That missing element is body mastery (which has conserve power and physical perfection) which, coupled with electrics oddly endurance efficient attacks, is why you see a more bottomed out end bar. Electric also has more mitigation due to KD in thunderstrike, so it's totally reasonable to expect less health to be taken. |
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And so far what i'm hearing from multple people verifies my point. When you're all saying, that the elec/shield is better. Better mitigation, better end efficiency, and is better at aoe damage, and then between chain/jacob's/t-strike that when the couple bosses are left that elec pulls ahead even.
You even more-so proved when you saythe times are close, yet didn't account for the fact, that the elec/shield, did not have blaze mastery, which if it would it would have been killing faster.
The only instance i see the fire/shield being better, is for strict 1 on 1 combat.
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Quote:
Can't make a Spines/Shield guy. I was so disappointed about this that I went to villainside, which has Super Strength/Shield as an option. |
Originally Posted by Metacreativity
Kinda seems like spines will still be a better AoEer to me.
Just saying. |
I wish you could make a Spines/Shield. Maybe with some sort of shield that looked like an enormous sea urchin.
Dumb question. But I have a Shield/Fire/Fire Tank. Would a fire/shield/blaze or elc/shield scrapper kill much faster than him, like +3/8 man?
Not trying to threadjack, just curious if I should just reroll a shield scrapper since they might kill quicker for farming, and I havent got accolades or anything really on my tanker yet.
The scrapper would kill much faster in any situation where the tanker's extra survivability didn't help.
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Thanks for the reply. Yea I have a dm/shield scrapper, but all this talk makes me wanna make a elec/shield.|
Originally Posted by Nihilii
The scrapper would kill much faster in any situation where the tanker's extra survivability didn't help.
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Maybe after I make a decision on what pvp scrapper ill make, then ill make an elec shield. As if I needed more alts
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A Shield/Fire/Pyre tanker isn't actually all that bad for farming. If you can invest the inf to get the recharge of your big AoEs up while managing your end it will go through mobs plenty quick. I know my Shield/SS/Pyre (if I ever finished his build) would be right up there with some of the better ones. |
Originally Posted by snake1313
Dumb question. But I have a Shield/Fire/Fire Tank. Would a fire/shield/blaze or elc/shield scrapper kill much faster than him, like +3/8 man?
Not trying to threadjack, just curious if I should just reroll a shield scrapper since they might kill quicker for farming, and I havent got accolades or anything really on my tanker yet. |
I've run into at least one purpled Shield/SS that was actually keeping pace with a heavily IO'ed Spines/Fire. (Both were players I considered solid)
The nice part about Fire Melee on tanks is having two AoEs with a wide radius, 3 when you get the Pyre Mastery. (15 on Combustion 10 on FSC 15 on Fireball) Survivability is almost a complete non issue for tanks in that kind of situation also, so you can invest a little into soft capping and much more into +recharge. (Which again, isn't cheap)
I wish I had one to show off, but I will say from watching an SG mate with one, they definitely hold their own for speed. *note* Not saying its faster, or even that it would keep up, mainly that it is "Not slow"
Yeah a shield/fire/fire tanks is DEFINITELY viable. I still have a inv/fire/fire tank that i've had since i4. He has zero IOs in him, and he can still kill pretty well. Add IOs on to your shield/fire/fire, AAO boosting your attacks, and shield charge, and its defintiely a solid build.
For reference:
Scrapper:
SC: 200.20 x 2.6 = 520.52/46.5seconds = 11.19DPS
FSC: 121.86 x 2.6 = 316.84/12.67 = 25.01DPS
Fireball: 71.323 x 2.6 = 185.44/17 = 10.91DPS (calculated off tanker version, base i get as 71.323 damage, not sure where someone else got 99.83 for fireball on scraps, may have to check in game value but doesn't seem right unless tomax has the wrong value for Fball.)
Total DPS: 47.11 (went with halved recharge, fully enhanced damage, average high value for AAO)
Tanker:
SC: 133.47 x 2.4 = 320.33/46.5 = 6.89 DPS
FSC: 83.2 x 2.4 = 199.68/12.67 = 15.76 DPS
Combustion:57.84 x 2.4 = 138.82/10.5 = 13.22 DPS
Fireball: 50.72 x 2.4 = 121.73/17s = 7.161 DPS
Total: 43.03DPS
As you can see the difference is relatively small. You need to use another attack, but for aoe attack chaining won't mean much. And its damage is on a wider area with combustion so that can help to actually increase its dps compared to the scrapper version who's most of its dps is in FSC, so when an enemy is just out of range itll lower what it can do where combustion will fill that gap some. Making the overall difference much less.
Of course not counting build up, which helps push the scrap up a bit more, but still, the builds are fairly close in aoe DPS. Much easier to get high enough defense on the tanker though. So you CAN afford to go for more recharge, or damage bonuses, accuracy, etc.
In other words, i'd say keep going with the tanker.
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I don't understand Fury's video. It looks like she's at zero endurance the entire battle. Also noting it seems like its taking her longer. From what i could see i'm assuming she has bosses in hers where MR's did not. However she also had fireball whereas the elec/shield did not. Was also getting hurt much more than the elec/shield was. Going to assume moreso if she had bosses as to the reason.
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Plasmic Fire - 50 Fire/Rad Victory Server