We pause this MA Arc for a Youtube video
By
airhead,
Posted on: 2009-09-09 18:52 in Mission Architect
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Roderick
So.... You'd have a problem if someone Rickrolled you, but not with getting Meatspinned?
O_o |
I take back my idea.....I can deal with Rickrolling....but....not.....THAT!!!
Now, to actually answer the OP's question:
I'll go look at a trailer beforehand, but I'm highly unlikely to pause in the middle of an arc and go consult an SSI book of text paragraphs... er, I mean YouTube.
The text limits aren't that small, and if you're still running out of space, then as both a storyteller and an editor, I suggest trimming for brevity and impact.
My characters at Virtueverse
Faces of the City
Quote:
Yes, you're right. In my opinion, though, the MA isn't realy anagolous to a professional newspaper, to use your example. The journalist inq uestion can write 9 and a half column inches, or nineteen thousand, and put it in his blog, and whilst he can't justifiably complain about not being allowed to publish said wossname in the paper because of the editors requirements, the editor has no right to stop him doing what he wants with the blog. |
Originally Posted by Venture
and some people have psychological issues with any unusual storytelling methods.
Does that include every editor on the face of the earth? Do they all have "psychological issues"? If a newspaper editor tells a reporter to write four column inches he writes four column inches. Not three and a half, not five, four. He'll have written it so that it can be cut down or extended if necessary, but what he turns in will be what the editor asked for. |
Quote:
|
and Writers in every field have to deal with similar requirements. The ability to meet specifications is part of the reason why the professionals get paid and we don't. People who can't aren't "creative", they're would-be prima donnas. |
I apologise if my choice of words offended you, venture. By 'psychological issues' I didnt mean you were nuts or anything. I merely meant that some people, yourself included, dislike MArcs that fall outside of what you consider acceptable, but that other people, myself included, are more open to give them a shot. I did point out in my response that it really comes down to which kind of player the OP wants to appeal to.
Each to their own.
Quote:
Quote:
| Expecting the material to fit in the space provided is not indicative of "psychological issues". It isn't an outrageous or unreasonable request. It isn't even an unusual one. |
Eco.
MArcs:
The Echo, Arc ID 1688 (5mish, easy, drama)
The Audition, Arc ID 221240 (6 mish, complex mech, comedy)
Storming Citadel, Arc ID 379488 (lowbie, 1mish, 10-min timed)
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Samuel_Tow
[The Incarnate System is] Jack Emmert all over again, only this time it's not "1 hero = 3 white minions" it's "1 hero = 3 white rocks."
|
Must a painter find and grind their own pigments, weave their own canvas, or create the universe before they are "allowed" to create what they imagine?
No, but if they're working for someone, or in an art class, or submitting work for a contest, or in any other situation wherein they are called upon to work within specified parameters, they work to those parameters or they fail.
Consider that (if I recall correctly), every single existing arc in the game follows the "just a bunch of stuff that happened" template
You don't.
It seems to me that by your same logic, mission architects should not seek to deviate from that established model by attempting to add meaning, persistent consequences, and other concepts not supported by the system.
The poor quality of the bulk of the canon stories are not the product of the requirements, i.e., it is not the case that it is simply not possible to write a good story under these conditions. Plenty of people already have.
And since Venture is the one who signed an agreement with every existing arc creator allowing them use of the Architect as long as they make an arc that fits his standards, it's entirely his call what the framework is and how much deviation from it is acceptable.
Everyone has standards. Mine are just better than yours.
Apparently, in the alternate reality Venture lives in, editors are only for traditional paper newspapers
I distinctly recall saying....
Quote:
...which they do. If you are, e.g., writing a short story to submit to a magazine that magazine will have standards for submissions that you have to meet. If you're writing a novel your publisher is going to assign you to an editor who is going to say things like "the focus groups thought it was too long at 600 pages, cut it to 450". Hell, if one of my professors tells the class to write 3-5 pages on topic X I'd better not come back with 2 or 7 if I care about my grade.| Writers in every field have to deal with similar requirements. |
And while I'm shooting from the hip here, I expect that if you are putting your work into MA in the hopes of getting "noticed" you'd better write arcs that fit into the space provided and look and feel somewhat like canon content. PS isn't looking to put someone on the payroll to write a 47-act magnum opus about their supergroup's Mary Sues. New hires are going to be told something like "we need 10 Skull and Hellion arcs for this new lowbie zone we're opening, get to work". You're going to be working on the company's material for a while before they start entertaining your ideas about new directions.
and there's never any reference to other articles, papers or books in any article.
In a technical article, sure, but that's an entirely different breed of catgirl. A short story that breaks in the middle and says you need to go read another short story before continuing is a failure.
This would be valid IF the MA was a finished product. As it is now it is a story telling medium in development. Our creativity will help the system grow.
There is no indication that any of the underlying parameters are likely to change any time soon. In particular I very much doubt the devs would even consider adding cut scenes.
Current Blog Post: "Why I am an Atheist..."
"And I say now these kittens, they do not get trained/As we did in the days when Victoria reigned!" -- T. S. Eliot, "Gus, the Theatre Cat"
Y'know, someone should really go and gather up the requirements and underlying parameters of the Mission Architect that the devs have stated are expected of authors.
"If I had Force powers, vacuum or not my cape/clothes/hair would always be blowing in the Dramatic Wind." - Tenzhi
Characters
From experience, I'd have to say, no, I wouldn't be willing to switch to YouTube to view a streaming video as part of the story arc.
I say "from experience" because, as it turns out, I've already run an arc that had a video linked to it (Ashley Porter and the Gorilla War, a fun WW2 era romp), and I didn't look at the video until some weeks later.
The video proved to be pretty awesome (I wish I had that author's skill at demorecording and video editing!), but I certainly didn't look at it while I was playing the arc; and even if I had, it would've been unfair to let my opinion of the video (which is really a different medium) color my opinion of the story arc.
However, if the MA interface changed so you could splice a "cut scene" seamlessly (or approximately so) into your story arc, I'd be totally OK with viewing those. That would essentially make the video clip part of the AE experience.
@PW - Police Woman (50 AR/dev blaster on Liberty)
TALOS - PW war journal - alternate contact tree using MA story arcs
=VICE= "Give me Liberty, or give me debt!"
Quote:
I'm an incredibly jaded individual when it comes to the internet. Meatspin would get at best a sigh from me. It certainly has more humor value than Rickroll due to shock factor. Rickroll went from slightly entertaining to downright stupid when it made Rick Astley a bigger celebrity than he ever was when he actually made the damn song.
|
Originally Posted by Roderick
So.... You'd have a problem if someone Rickrolled you, but not with getting Meatspinned?
O_o |
Re Venture (on iPhone, hence odd quoting method):
" [Must a painter find and grind their own pigments, weave their own canvas, or create the universe before they are "allowed" to create what they imagine?]
No, but if they're working for someone, or in an art class, or submitting work for a contest, or in any other situation wherein they are called upon to work within specified parameters, they work to those parameters or they fail."
i think the contest analogy you use is the best one for the AE. I would say that this pRticular contest has as many judges as there are Players, and so 'failing' it is, well, possibly even moot considering that different 'judges' have different success criteria.
Eco
MArcs:
The Echo, Arc ID 1688 (5mish, easy, drama)
The Audition, Arc ID 221240 (6 mish, complex mech, comedy)
Storming Citadel, Arc ID 379488 (lowbie, 1mish, 10-min timed)
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Samuel_Tow
[The Incarnate System is] Jack Emmert all over again, only this time it's not "1 hero = 3 white minions" it's "1 hero = 3 white rocks."
|
I don't think I'd like having to go out in the middle of an arc to look at youtube.
That said, trying something like having a video or series of videos where things related to the arc happen, and they compliment each other, doesn't sound like a bad idea. Kinda like what they tried with The Matrix, except I don't think it worked too well there because the game wasn't that good really (Enter the Matrix, that is).
Players' Choice Awards: Best Dual-Origin Level Range Arc!
It's a new era, the era of the Mission Architect. Can you save the Universe from...
The Invasion of the Bikini-clad Samurai Vampiresses from Outer Space? - Arc ID 61013
Quote:
And both our standards are of equal relevance to prospective MA authors: none whatsoever. The only relevant rules are the ones imposed by Paragon Studios and their GM team, who are the people actually running the game.|
Originally Posted by Venture
And since Venture is the one who signed an agreement with every existing arc creator allowing them use of the Architect as long as they make an arc that fits his standards, it's entirely his call what the framework is and how much deviation from it is acceptable.
Everyone has standards. Mine are just better than yours. |
Here, let me explain using bullet points:
Things you're not allowed to put in your Mission Architect arcs
- Farms
- Copyright infrigment
- Malicious code that breaks the arc server
Things that are perfectly okay to put in MA arcs
- Bad spelling
- Mary Sues
- Nonsensical plots
- Sweeping assumptions about the player character
- Specifically, treating the player character as a moron unable to spot the most obvious trap
- Spreading one clue across multiple fields to get around the character limit
- Breaking unspoken expectations the players have about plots
- Other kinds of playing with the format or conventions
Sure, some of the things on the second list may annoy other players, and if an author cares about making a good impression and getting favorable ratings, they can try to avoid those things. But that alone does not make them "outside the provided framework".
You can complain about the arcs not living up to your personal standards (I'll leave aside the question of how one person's standards can be "better" than another's), but if you want any authority over what belongs in player-created missions, *you're* the one who's going to have to design and produce their own game.
Character index
Well put, Silver.
Eco.
MArcs:
The Echo, Arc ID 1688 (5mish, easy, drama)
The Audition, Arc ID 221240 (6 mish, complex mech, comedy)
Storming Citadel, Arc ID 379488 (lowbie, 1mish, 10-min timed)
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Samuel_Tow
[The Incarnate System is] Jack Emmert all over again, only this time it's not "1 hero = 3 white minions" it's "1 hero = 3 white rocks."
|
I think the best reply is already in MrCaptainMan's signature...
Quote:
| Creating something is not a democracy. The people have no say. The artist does. It doesn't matter what the people witter on about: they and their response come after. They're not there for the creation. - Russell T Davies |
Sure today is the first day of the rest of your life. But so was yesterday. And look how that turned out.
Quote:
While a creation is purely in the hands of a creator, that doesn't mean that outside advice is completely useless or unwarranted. Just because a creator is well within their rights to do pretty much anything, that doesn't mean that anything that they do will be liked by their audience, or be a good idea.
|
Originally Posted by Mr_Bandwagon
I think the best reply is already in MrCaptainMan's signature...
|
Good grief.
I think you'd limit your audience by using a Youtube video, but you might still have an audience. You might offend people if the video requirement is sprung on them after they've already started, or you might just have people not start your arc if you mention it up front.
But there's absolutely no harm in trying this. I am stunned at the linear, lowest common denominator philosophy of some of the posts above. Sure, write a formulaic arc that everyone can play, everyone can understand. Flip burgers. People need people to do that.
Or try something different. The City of Heroes crowd may be too insular to ultimately appreciate your efforts to get out of the box, but your inventiveness may someday stretch to other things, other facets of life, other worlds... and the cute little gimmick you perfected here may find a nice big luxury home in another context.
Long live creativity.
Arc: 379017: Outbroken See all your old friends in the Outbreak Tutorial sequel!
Arc: Coming Soon: The Incarnate Shadow Shard of Fire and Ice Mender Rednem needs you!
Massively.com opinion poll: Please Help Save CoH!
Quote:
This is a fair point. My own personal view is something like Consumerism: |
Originally Posted by LaserJesus
While a creation is purely in the hands of a creator, that doesn't mean that outside advice is completely useless or unwarranted. Just because a creator is well within their rights to do pretty much anything, that doesn't mean that anything that they do will be liked by their audience, or be a good idea.
|
Writer: "Here's my arc - its intended for X and it does Y"
Player: "OK, I'll give it a go"
or
Player: "Hm, not my cup of tea sorry"
The OPs request for comment from the forum-goers here has hopefully given him the answer - some people will accept a youtube video as part of his arcs narrative, and some won't
It's still up to him alone to decide whether or not to use one.
Eco.
MArcs:
The Echo, Arc ID 1688 (5mish, easy, drama)
The Audition, Arc ID 221240 (6 mish, complex mech, comedy)
Storming Citadel, Arc ID 379488 (lowbie, 1mish, 10-min timed)
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Samuel_Tow
[The Incarnate System is] Jack Emmert all over again, only this time it's not "1 hero = 3 white minions" it's "1 hero = 3 white rocks."
|
I'd say go for it if that's what you really want to do and damn the naysayers. If only two people "get" what you wanted to do with it, then the arc is a success. Only a few people might "get" it, but it'll be the right few people.
I was going to mention MrCaptainMan's arc but hey, here he popped up and did that for me. It does build tension pretty well, so I'd recommend you look into that arc and see if the technique or something like it might apply to your story.
Lastly,
Quote:
made me laugh a lot! I have no idea why, but that song has been stuck in my head the past couple of days; just this morning I was humming it in the shower and then Heraclea went and posted it
|
Originally Posted by Heraclea
|
Quote:
Wow, I wonder why he turned off his forum reputation thingy...
|
Originally Posted by Venture
Everyone has standards. Mine are just better than yours.
|
Wow, I wonder why he turned off his forum reputation thingy...
I got tired of immature hate speech in the reputation track.
Current Blog Post: "Why I am an Atheist..."
"And I say now these kittens, they do not get trained/As we did in the days when Victoria reigned!" -- T. S. Eliot, "Gus, the Theatre Cat"
Quote:
Lol i kbow what you mean, but i've come to sort of anticipate the amusement of some of them. I had one which said "I'm not the only person who thinks you're incompetent at Life!", which i thought was a bit harsh. |
Originally Posted by Venture
Wow, I wonder why he turned off his forum reputation thingy...
I got tired of immature hate speech in the reputation track. |
mind, i dont get a lot of hate. If it was worse, i might get fed up too.
Eco
MArcs:
The Echo, Arc ID 1688 (5mish, easy, drama)
The Audition, Arc ID 221240 (6 mish, complex mech, comedy)
Storming Citadel, Arc ID 379488 (lowbie, 1mish, 10-min timed)
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Samuel_Tow
[The Incarnate System is] Jack Emmert all over again, only this time it's not "1 hero = 3 white minions" it's "1 hero = 3 white rocks."
|
Quote:
As long as you have the option of TURNING IT OFF or skipping the cut scene, sure.
|
Originally Posted by PoliceWoman
From experience, I'd have to say, no, I wouldn't be willing to switch to YouTube to view a streaming video as part of the story arc.
I say "from experience" because, as it turns out, I've already run an arc that had a video linked to it (Ashley Porter and the Gorilla War, a fun WW2 era romp), and I didn't look at the video until some weeks later. The video proved to be pretty awesome (I wish I had that author's skill at demorecording and video editing!), but I certainly didn't look at it while I was playing the arc; and even if I had, it would've been unfair to let my opinion of the video (which is really a different medium) color my opinion of the story arc. However, if the MA interface changed so you could splice a "cut scene" seamlessly (or approximately so) into your story arc, I'd be totally OK with viewing those. That would essentially make the video clip part of the AE experience. |
Blazara Aura LVL 50 Fire/Psi Dom (with 125% recharge)
Flameboxer Aura LVL 50 SS/Fire Brute
Ice 'Em Aura LVL 50 Ice Tank
Darq Widow Fortune LVL 50 Fortunata (200% rech/Night Widow 192.5% rech)--thanks issue 19!
Quote:
True. But I often assume when an OP comes and ASKS he/she wants folks to PLAY such an arc. If they didn't they would just make it and put it up and not care if folks played it.|
Originally Posted by MrCaptainMan
This is a fair point. My own personal view is something like Consumerism:
Writer: "Here's my arc - its intended for X and it does Y" Player: "OK, I'll give it a go" or Player: "Hm, not my cup of tea sorry" The OPs request for comment from the forum-goers here has hopefully given him the answer - some people will accept a youtube video as part of his arcs narrative, and some won't It's still up to him alone to decide whether or not to use one. Eco. |
Personally, no, I would NOT play the external video. And if your arc doesn't make sense without it, it's taking a hit in stars. Basically if you plan to do it make sure you have the same text of said speech in the ACTUAL ARC SOMEWHERE.
If streaming directly from Youtube did ever become an option for MA authors, the devs better make damn sure you can auto turn it off BEFORE they start an arc. The griefing potential alone with that is astounding.
Blazara Aura LVL 50 Fire/Psi Dom (with 125% recharge)
Flameboxer Aura LVL 50 SS/Fire Brute
Ice 'Em Aura LVL 50 Ice Tank
Darq Widow Fortune LVL 50 Fortunata (200% rech/Night Widow 192.5% rech)--thanks issue 19!
Quote:
The irony being your condescending attitude, holier-than-thou 'I'm better/correct' arrogance and eagerness to insist if someone's opinion differs from yours they can 'make their own game' reeks of childishness in and of itself.
|
Originally Posted by Venture
Wow, I wonder why he turned off his forum reputation thingy...
I got tired of immature hate speech in the reputation track. |
People can go after my opinions until the cows come home, but there is a line between attacking an opinion and attacking a person. Writing things like "you have mental issues" in someone's rep track pole-vaults over it.
Current Blog Post: "Why I am an Atheist..."
"And I say now these kittens, they do not get trained/As we did in the days when Victoria reigned!" -- T. S. Eliot, "Gus, the Theatre Cat"
Quote:
Sort of like that time you said, and I quote, I 'committed a litany of sins too great to list' and that if you had your way you'd have my arc removed from the AE server? Where exactly do you draw that line, because that seems like there's not really any difference between saying 'you have mental issues' and 'hey, not to judge you as a person (WINK WINK), but your work is an affront to my senses and should be striken from the game'. They're both equally insulting and outright rude to the person you're saying them to.
|
Originally Posted by Venture
People can go after my opinions until the cows come home, but there is a line between attacking an opinion and attacking a person. Writing things like "you have mental issues" in someone's rep track pole-vaults over it.
|
This would be valid IF the MA was a finished product. As it is now it is a story telling medium in development. Our creativity will help the system grow.
Drawing outside the box is the point of the system.