The Perfect 10
By
Ace_of_Hearts,
Posted on: 2009-09-09 07:20 in Archetypes and Powers General Discussion
Quote:
Yeah, we can debate around Scrappers and Blasters all we want, but Khelds are just better at L10.|
Originally Posted by Dechs Kaison
Another point in favor of Kheldians is that you'd have your travel power at level 10 as well. Fly as a PB or in nova.
As already stated, nova gives you a really nice damage and tohit buff, so you could use the slots for solid damage if you'd like. |
Another point in their favour: If you respec at L10 you can re-assign all your early slots from L3 and L5 into the Nova form and its attacks - put endmod in nova form's base slot, 2 extra slots into all 4 nova form attacks and slot them up with damage (maybe some recharge) and you're good to go.
Go Warshade and you have a much more useful debuff effect as well (not sure -def from PB is necessary as at L10 you'll still have half the starting +ToHit from the newbie bonus plus extra from your form).
Quote:
Hey, make that level 16 and I'll give it to the Claws/Rgn Scrapper. But at level 10 I think only SR and WP have mez protection, and those are a bit more late-blooming.
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Originally Posted by Sailboat
Heh. Another dramatic difference of opinion.
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Quote:
But then with the notable exception of The Lost there aren't many mezzes around at L10-13, so mez protection would be a wasted power pick anyway if you're just looking to farm.
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Originally Posted by Silverado
Hey, make that level 16 and I'll give it to the Claws/Rgn Scrapper. But at level 10 I think only SR and WP have mez protection, and those are a bit more late-blooming.
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Quote:
Given the choice of "better than Stamina" or some mez protection against low levels enemies with few mezzes (or none, if we choose which mobs we fight as farmers often do), I'll take "better than Stamina." I'd probably choose "better than Stamina" even vs. Lost and Arachnos though.|
Originally Posted by Silverado
Hey, make that level 16 and I'll give it to the Claws/Rgn Scrapper. But at level 10 I think only SR and WP have mez protection, and those are a bit more late-blooming.
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How good is the +recovery of a Nova form Kheld?
Why Blasters? Empathy Sucks.
So, you want to be Mental?
What the hell? Let's buff defenders.
Tactics are for those who do not have a big enough hammer. Wisdom is knowing how big your hammer is.
Quote:
Off the top of my head it's 15% - so half what QR gives (30%) and less than Stamina (25%) - but still decent.|
Originally Posted by StratoNexus
How good is the +recovery of a Nova form Kheld?
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And you're also getting the +dmg (45%?), +ToHit (think it's 9-10%) and +res (just energy and neg energy - something minor like 10-15%) that nova gives.
Quote:
Well, with the great damage output of Nova, that might be a great choice. Fast Healing and Reconstruction probably still make the Regen scrapper the "best" choice, but a lot of the builds in this thread seem worthwhile.|
Originally Posted by Lord Mayhem
Off the top of my head it's 15% - so half what QR gives (30%) and less than Stamina (25%) - but still decent.
And you're also getting the +dmg (45%?), +ToHit (think it's 9-10%) and +res (just energy and neg energy - something minor like 10-15%) that nova gives. |
If only Reform Essence came sooner.
Why Blasters? Empathy Sucks.
So, you want to be Mental?
What the hell? Let's buff defenders.
Tactics are for those who do not have a big enough hammer. Wisdom is knowing how big your hammer is.
Quote:
But then if you're just looking to farm, you go with something that has a lot of AoE damage (Fire/EM Blaster) not a single target specialist (Claws/Rgn) |
Originally Posted by Lord Mayhem
But then with the notable exception of The Lost there aren't many mezzes around at L10-13, so mez protection would be a wasted power pick anyway if you're just looking to farm.
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Quote:
While its nice that a Fire/EM can kill 3 spawns and then be out of endurance, I'd rather Spin-Spin-Spin (or Flashing Steel in my case) my way through a mission without needing to stop. |
Originally Posted by Silverado
But then if you're just looking to farm, you go with something that has a lot of AoE damage (Fire/EM Blaster) not a single target specialist (Claws/Rgn)
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Edit:
Although, if we did go "all the way" to level 12, a Fire/EM blaster and a Kin/Sonic defender would be a good farming duo.
Still more Edit:
Hero Plan by Mids' Hero Designer 1.401
http://www.cohplanner.com/
Click this DataLink to open the build!
lowbie power A: Level 12 Magic Defender
Primary Power Set: Kinetics
Secondary Power Set: Sonic Attack
Hero Profile:
Level 1: Siphon Power -- Acc-I:15(A)
Level 1: Shriek -- Acc-I:15(A), Acc-I:15(3), EndRdx-I:15(9)
Level 2: Scream -- Acc-I:15(A), Acc-I:15(3), EndRdx-I:15(9), Dmg-I:15(11)
Level 4: Howl -- Acc-I:15(A), Acc-I:15(5), EndRdx-I:15(5)
Level 6: Transfusion -- Acc-I:15(A), Acc-I:15(7), RechRdx-I:15(7)
Level 8: Increase Density -- EndRdx-I:15(A)
Level 10: Siphon Speed -- Acc-I:15(A), Acc-I:15(11)
Level 12: Speed Boost -- EndMod-I:15(A)
Hero Plan by Mids' Hero Designer 1.401
http://www.cohplanner.com/
Click this DataLink to open the build!
lowbie power B: Level 12 Magic Blaster
Primary Power Set: Fire Blast
Secondary Power Set: Energy Manipulation
Hero Profile:
Level 1: Flares -- Acc-I:15(A), Dmg-I:15(7), Dmg-I:15(7)
Level 1: Power Thrust -- Acc-I:15(A)
Level 2: Fire Ball -- Acc-I:15(A), Dmg-I:15(3), Dmg-I:15(3), Dmg-I:15(5), Dmg-I:15(5)
Level 4: Build Up -- RechRdx-I:15(A)
Level 6: Energy Punch -- Acc-I:15(A)
Level 8: Fire Breath -- Acc-I:15(A), Dmg-I:15(9), Dmg-I:15(9), Dmg-I:15(11), Dmg-I:15(11)
Level 10: Bone Smasher -- Acc-I:15(A)
Level 12: Aim -- RechRdx-I:15(A)
Why Blasters? Empathy Sucks.
So, you want to be Mental?
What the hell? Let's buff defenders.
Tactics are for those who do not have a big enough hammer. Wisdom is knowing how big your hammer is.
Quote:
Have you LOOKED at Spin?
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Originally Posted by Silverado
not a single target specialist (Claws/Rgn)
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If we are to die, let us die like men. -- Patrick Cleburne
----------------------------------------------------------
The rule is that they must be loved. --Jayne Fynes-Clinton, Death of an Abandoned Dog
I can't add any better suggestions than this thread has already gathered. But I would like to say that given the topic, this is one of the best titled threads I've come across. Well played sir!
Actually, I do have a question now that I think on it. Would the availibility of veteran awards change what you guys might recommend? Say that someone (like me!) has all the vet awards up to Reveal. This gives three fairly potent attacks at low levels. I usually go with Sands of Mu, Blackwand (all my characters are magic origin) and Nemesis staff. They don't get much use on my older characters, but they seem pretty darned helpful for the lowbies. Pretty much ANY character I start has a fairly decent attack chain early on.
I don't know what vet awards the OP has available, but what difference would they make, in your opinion? Might they open up some of the far less AT choices like say any of the defenders or tanks?
I'm Tealeaf, and I approve of this message.
See [URL="http://boards.cityofheroes.com/showthread.php?p=2134817#post2134817"]Useful Tagging for the good of the Forum[/URL], my guide to tags.
Quote:
Leveraging the Vet Rewards are one of the reasons I've been saying Rad. I had a Dark/Rad Defender who used them all the time up to the 20s quite happily. Defense Debuffs & the Resist Debuffs go very nicely with them.
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Originally Posted by Tealeaf
I can't add any better suggestions than this thread has already gathered. But I would like to say that given the topic, this is one of the best titled threads I've come across. Well played sir!
Actually, I do have a question now that I think on it. Would the availibility of veteran awards change what you guys might recommend? Say that someone (like me!) has all the vet awards up to Reveal. This gives three fairly potent attacks at low levels. I usually go with Sands of Mu, Blackwand (all my characters are magic origin) and Nemesis staff. They don't get much use on my older characters, but they seem pretty darned helpful for the lowbies. Pretty much ANY character I start has a fairly decent attack chain early on. I don't know what vet awards the OP has available, but what difference would they make, in your opinion? Might they open up some of the far less AT choices like say any of the defenders or tanks? |
Quote:
Which is why I haven't advocated Scrappers once and have been suggesting a Warshade or a Blaster |
Originally Posted by Silverado
But then if you're just looking to farm, you go with something that has a lot of AoE damage (Fire/EM Blaster) not a single target specialist (Claws/Rgn)
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Quote:
I would like to further enforce the WS, as dark nova form has two really nice AoE attacks without KB and an almost full attack chain at level 6!|
Originally Posted by Lord Mayhem
Which is why I haven't advocated Scrappers once and have been suggesting a Warshade or a Blaster
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Couple that with the inherent damage buff, tohit buff, and the ability to soar above melee, you have the Perfect 10 right there.
Where to now?
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by ClawsandEffect
Well, with some IOs, like the +Stealth IOs and the unique procs (Miracle and Numina's) It simply doesn't matter what level they are. If you have a Miracle +recovery in Fast Healing it will function at level 1, even if the enhancement is level 40, because the power it is in is available.
Luck of the Gambler +recharge is the opposite, you get the bonus if you are within 3 levels of the IO itself, whether the power it is in is available or not. So, if you took Combat Jumping at level 24 and put a level 25 LotG in it, it would function down to level 22, but any lower and it would stop working. I'm not sure which category KB Protection IOs fall into, perhaps someone else can clarify? |
I did some low level mishes on one of my trollers against CoT before real numbers were available for mez resist. I had two KB resist IOs slotted one in a power that was unavailable and both being > 3 levels above the exemp. With all the Earth Thorns and Ruin Mages the rest of the team - tank included were bouncing all over the place from the stacked knockup whilst I was unaffected - I got the impression both IOs were giving benifit.
I seem to recall a post shortly after this hat this was WAI - I'll try to remember to check later to check the exact circumstances.
Mind of Gaia lvl 50 Defiant's first Mind/Storm 'troller.
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Hey all! This has turned into a project for me, and a friend has been participating.
I've made some of these suggested powerset combinations so far; I plan to make more, the idea being to test how the combinations that you've recommended suit my playstyle.
I toyed with leveling to 12 for the additional slots and power and most of all, access to level 15 DOs. Level 10-13 DOs slottable at 10 do exist, but they're infrequent drops, and I've been having trouble acquiring them. But I decided to stick with the original level goal, my personal level cap of 10, partly because it's more of a challenge. So I've been slotting TOs and Bronze-rolled level ten set IOs, or even leaving slots empty for now (I know I need to get some IOs or DOs in there to assess relative performance; it's just taking longer than I thought.)
I don't have access to the builds from here so I'll be vague.
I made the Kat/Regen Scrapper and the Archery Blaster, but I switched secondaries on the Blaster from Energy to Fire. I thought two frequently-available PBAoEs would better suit my mass-killing than an early Build Up every 90 seconds (or a little sooner with a lvl 10 recharge IO). Not having SOs or decent levels of IOs really alters the calculations about long-recharge powers -- they're a lot less useful.
I am definitely digging Divine Avalanche and Flashing Steel as a crowd-surviving and crowd-killing combo, especially the six-second recharge on FS. The speed of Gambler's Cut is sort of mesmerizing too. Reconstruction is less useful than I thought, at least until I can get one or two recharges into it...it just takes so long to come back.
The Blaster has been pulling a lot of aggro off my friend's Rad/Rad Defender even after waiting for him to herd up a rad cloud's worth. Only the Rad Defender's heal is saving me.
I made a baby Warshade but have yet to level him up for the project.
More updates eventually.
If we are to die, let us die like men. -- Patrick Cleburne
----------------------------------------------------------
The rule is that they must be loved. --Jayne Fynes-Clinton, Death of an Abandoned Dog
Quote:
I was going to suggest this also.
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Originally Posted by Dechs Kaison
What about a Kheld in nova form? Aren't they kind of strong at that level? Lots of AoE on quick recharge and they give a recovery boost.
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Blue
American Steele: 50 BS/Inv
Nightfall: 50 DDD
Sable Slayer: 50 DM/Rgn
Fortune's Shadow: 50 Dark/Psi
WinterStrike: 47 Ice/Dev
Quantum Well: 43 Inv/EM
Twilit Destiny: 43 MA/DA
Red
Shadowslip: 50 DDC
Final Rest: 50 MA/Rgn
Abyssal Frost: 50 Ice/Dark
Golden Ember: 50 SM/FA
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Dechs Kaison
I would like to further enforce the WS, as dark nova form has two really nice AoE attacks without KB and an almost full attack chain at level 6!
Couple that with the inherent damage buff, tohit buff, and the ability to soar above melee, you have the Perfect 10 right there. |
A Peacebringer is a better bet, since the -Def is going to help more than the Snare. Especially at low levels.
Plus, the PB gets Essence Boost (Heal, +Max HP) and BU by level 12, while the Shade only gets Sunless Mire.
Quote:
This.|
Originally Posted by Dechs Kaison
I would like to further enforce the WS, as dark nova form has two really nice AoE attacks without KB and an almost full attack chain at level 6!
Couple that with the inherent damage buff, tohit buff, and the ability to soar above melee, you have the Perfect 10 right there. |
As many blasters as I have levelled into their teens, and even knowing how powerful they can be at high levels there is nothing I have yet enoutered with the low level killing power of a Kheldian in Nova form. Pre-i16 posi runs where you had a Kheld and a kin were so much easier than when you were without either of them.
I would put my vote towards Warshades because the slow really helps against low level opponents too, and negative energy is slightly less resisted than normal energy.
But from level 6 you get two good fast single target attacks and two great AoE attacks that give a perfect attack chain right from then. At level 10 you can respec and put all your slots into the attacks, possibly even ignore the single target attacks and just 6 slot those AoE's! Add onto that an increased chance to hit and a massive 45% damage bonus! And flight is a great ally to keep you out of trouble.
Also you can put the Performance Shifter: Chance for +end (If that is available at level 10 - I can't remember) into the form slot, which I think works out better than either an endmod or endrdx.
The downside is that you get the void slayers/quantums, but the single target attacks do KB and are a good way of dealing with them, you just have to pay a bit more attention than normal.
One other thing to remember is that with i16 exemping down gets you powers up to 5 levels higher, so you could get to level 14 then run the 1-9 flashback missions with more powers (And that would probably change the choice of AT), depending what kind of rewards you are after.
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Aggelakis
PrincessDarkstar: "RAAAAAAAAARRRRRRRRRGHHHHHHHHHH SOMEONE IS *WRONG* ON THE INTERNET!"
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Is the form bug still prent during a respec ?
Im specifically thinking putting the level 3 and 5 slots into nova form blasts.
that would certainly help out at level 10.
@Catwhoorg "Rule of Three - Finale" Arc# 1984
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Quote:
*Boggle*
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Originally Posted by Weatherby Goode
while the Shade only gets Sunless Mire.
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If you PL'd to 50 just to get an "epic" thinking you'd be �ber, you're going to be sorely disappointed with the HEATs, because the VEATs were designed so that anyone with one good finger and a braincell can rock the toggles.
On the Villain side of things, Archery (full attack chain, Aim, good quick cone attack), Fire (less ST, but more AoE burst), or Sonic (Good ST, good cone attack, excellent secondary effect) paired with either Dark, Rad, or Kin would make a good choice.
A DB or Claws/WP brute might be ok too, but it would be less optimal then a Regen Scrapper.
Also, a Huntsman should be nice. No Aim or BU, but you get Venom Grenade at level 12. A Blood Widow has Follow-Up, Spin, and Dart Burst to edge out the huntsman in damage, but the Huntsman will have better defence.
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It sure is.|
Originally Posted by Catwhoorg
Is the form bug still prent during a respec ?
Im specifically thinking putting the level 3 and 5 slots into nova form blasts. that would certainly help out at level 10. |
(And Dark Novas AOE, Dark Detonation, does do knockback, but since you can fly it's easily converted into knockdown).
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I think someone already mentioned that at level 10 you are still getting a good chunk of the early tohit bonus (And the Nova tohit bonus) so the -def wont be too big of an issue. The slow and -recharge on the other hand from a Warshade make a big difference. At low levels most mobs don't actually have many attacks, so slowing the ones they do use is a very good tactic, and stopping a melee toon from getting close to you is great (Though the fly also helps here not every mission has high roofing).|
Originally Posted by Weatherby Goode
A Peacebringer is a better bet, since the -Def is going to help more than the Snare. Especially at low levels.
Plus, the PB gets Essence Boost (Heal, +Max HP) and BU by level 12, while the Shade only gets Sunless Mire. |
The PB heal is good, but for farming most people would prefer slotting the attacks, so the heal would only be of limited use I think and the +hp wouldn't be that big at level 10.
Lastly the human immob power from Warshades can be really great. Immob the void/quantum, pull the rest of the mob, destroy the rest of the mob and then solo the void/quantum.
Princess Darkstar - Proud Member of the Handprints of Union, the #1 ranked SG in Europe!
British by act of union, English by grace of God, Northern by pure good fortune!
British by act of union, English by grace of God, Northern by pure good fortune!
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Aggelakis
PrincessDarkstar: "RAAAAAAAAARRRRRRRRRGHHHHHHHHHH SOMEONE IS *WRONG* ON THE INTERNET!"
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Quote:
A 120s recharge is nothing to sneeze at when you can only use DOs and TOs. BU's 90s is a little more manageable.
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Originally Posted by Obsidian_Force2
*Boggle*
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Still, depending on spawn size, I would think you would do great with any combination of:
Claws/Katana/Broadword - Regen/Willpower Scrappers
Mind (smaller spawns) or Plant (larger spawns) - Radiation Controllers
Nova form Kheldians (endurance recovery built in)
These all "bloom" early. You could get by with any number of Blaster combinations as well.
I don't think there is any "best" way to do it, but I use Claws/Regen for something similar.