How would this work with 5 toggles running?
Arc 55669 - Tales of the PPD: One Hell of a Deal (video trailer)
Arc 64511 - The Wrecking Ball
Arc 1745 - The Trouble With Trimbles
Arc 302901 - HappyCorpse
This might be annoying if you're trying to attack at the same time.
Quote:
Same way it does now. The only indifference instead of the toggle dropping, it suppresses for the server tick.
|
Originally Posted by Xyzyx
How would this work with 5 toggles running?
|
Quote:
How so? Right now the toggle drops. The annoying part, at least to me, is trying to reactivate the toggle. Especially on melee chars where I have to kite around sometimes.
|
Originally Posted by Prof_Backfire
This might be annoying if you're trying to attack at the same time.
|
Quote:
The way it does now is that your toggles drop, and it's up to you to figure out which order they come back up in, and when, and whether, especially if you ran out of End because you're furiously attacking. |
Originally Posted by UltraPrime
Same way it does now. The only indifference instead of the toggle dropping, it suppresses for the server tick.
|
So, again, how would it work? Which hungry toggle gets that tick of End? The last one that dropped? The first one that dropped? The first one alphabetically? Do the toggles get preference over that attack you have queued to try to kill that final troublesome mob? All these questions and more would need to be worked out before something like you suggest could be implemented.
Arc 55669 - Tales of the PPD: One Hell of a Deal (video trailer)
Arc 64511 - The Wrecking Ball
Arc 1745 - The Trouble With Trimbles
Arc 302901 - HappyCorpse
Actually that's already answered. There's already an order. Toggles on a given tick deduct their end currently. If there's not enough end it suppresses until the next server tick. then it tires to deduct like it normally would. If there's enough endurance, then the effect comes back on.
The beauty is in the simplicity. And since the toggle didn't drop, merely suppressed for a second or so, you're always better off then if it just dropped. Provided that you hear some sort of sound effect alerting you to the fact that you're running low on endurance.
Quote:
No, it really isn't.|
Originally Posted by UltraPrime
Actually that's already answered.
|
Quote:
| The beauty is in the simplicity. |
Let's say I'm fighting bad guys with my Spines/Dark Armor scrapper. Let's assume these toggles are running:
Dark Embrace, Obsidian Shield, Murky Cloud (each .104 EPS)
Death Shroud and Quills (each 1.04 EPS)
Cloak of Darkness (.13 EPS)
Oppressive Gloom (.156 EPS)
Combat Jumping (.0325 EPS)
This comes to 2.71 EPS; for simplicity's sake let's reduce all endurance costs by 33% to simulate an Endurance Reduction enhancement. Now my cost is ~1.79 EPS. No problem, since my recovery is 2.5 EPS.
But I've been fighting long and hard, and at an inopportune moment the Hasten crash hits me and zeroes me out. There's one LT left standing with a sliver of hit points, but my status protection is down and he's a stunner, so I want to finish him off. I click Impale (endurance cost 5.2). I don't have the end to throw it, but it's queued up.
One second from now, 2.5 endurance points are coming my way. So, once again, what happens? And what happens if my recovery rate isn't high enough to cover my toggles? What gets precedence, queued attacks? Offensive toggles? Defensive toggles? Status protection?
Arc 55669 - Tales of the PPD: One Hell of a Deal (video trailer)
Arc 64511 - The Wrecking Ball
Arc 1745 - The Trouble With Trimbles
Arc 302901 - HappyCorpse
Quote:
Exactly. That is your incentive to, I don't know, conserve endurance. Use blues. Attack less quickly than you can, so you're not chugging your whole endurance bar like an audience at a Dead concert devours those brownies.|
Originally Posted by UltraPrime
The annoying part, at least to me, is trying to reactivate the toggle.
|
If you never had to turn your toggles back on, they would be Auto powers. You'd just turn them on at the start of the game and leave them on until you logged out. No strategy whatsoever. But they're not: they're toggles. You have to decide how to prioritize your energy consumption.
This game isn't that hard. I see no reason to make it even easier.
Quote:
Well put question. |
Originally Posted by Xyzyx
But I've been fighting long and hard, and at an inopportune moment the Hasten crash hits me and zeroes me out. There's one LT left standing with a sliver of hit points, but my status protection is down and he's a stunner, so I want to finish him off. I click Impale (endurance cost 5.2). I don't have the end to throw it, but it's queued up.
One second from now, 2.5 endurance points are coming my way. So, once again, what happens? And what happens if my recovery rate isn't high enough to cover my toggles? What gets precedence, queued attacks? Offensive toggles? Defensive toggles? Status protection? |
That aside, once I16 hits just use brawl. It will no longer cost endurance to use.
.
.Driver Sweeper * CohHelper * HijackThis * TweakCoH * CPU-ID
* Defraggler * Program Security Scan * PC Performance Scan *
Quote:
Same thing that happens now. Queued up power gets the first shot at defense. Then all the toggles in the same order that they take end out of the bar. Currently they go in a given order, depending on their tick rate and order of activation. In the current way it works, the toggle would just drop. You have not status protection period.|
Originally Posted by Xyzyx
No, it really isn't.
It really isn't simple, either. Let's say I'm fighting bad guys with my Spines/Dark Armor scrapper. Let's assume these toggles are running: Dark Embrace, Obsidian Shield, Murky Cloud (each .104 EPS) Death Shroud and Quills (each 1.04 EPS) Cloak of Darkness (.13 EPS) Oppressive Gloom (.156 EPS) Combat Jumping (.0325 EPS) This comes to 2.71 EPS; for simplicity's sake let's reduce all endurance costs by 33% to simulate an Endurance Reduction enhancement. Now my cost is ~1.79 EPS. No problem, since my recovery is 2.5 EPS. But I've been fighting long and hard, and at an inopportune moment the Hasten crash hits me and zeroes me out. There's one LT left standing with a sliver of hit points, but my status protection is down and he's a stunner, so I want to finish him off. I click Impale (endurance cost 5.2). I don't have the end to throw it, but it's queued up. One second from now, 2.5 endurance points are coming my way. So, once again, what happens? And what happens if my recovery rate isn't high enough to cover my toggles? What gets precedence, queued attacks? Offensive toggles? Defensive toggles? Status protection? |
So again, nothing changes from current implementation other then the toggle suppresses instead of drops.
Quote:
This, basically.|
Originally Posted by Hertz
Exactly. That is your incentive to, I don't know, conserve endurance. Use blues. Attack less quickly than you can, so you're not chugging your whole endurance bar like an audience at a Dead concert devours those brownies.
If you never had to turn your toggles back on, they would be Auto powers. You'd just turn them on at the start of the game and leave them on until you logged out. No strategy whatsoever. But they're not: they're toggles. You have to decide how to prioritize your energy consumption. This game isn't that hard. I see no reason to make it even easier. |
The only thing in the game which troubles my Dark/WP at the moment is those "Oh ****" moments when a Mu or something drains my End out and the toggles drop, or I'm scraping along with just one or two running while I wait for Dark Consumption to recharge.
I really don't need the game to be any easier really.
The only Toggle Change I would like would be for Kheld Defensive Human form toggles to surpress when shapeshifted rather than dropping (but still cost End if they are toggled on but surpressed by form).
Quote:
really!?!? Omg time to 6 slot brawl with hecatombs!
|
Originally Posted by bayblast
well put question.
That aside, once i16 hits just use brawl. It will no longer cost endurance to use. |
So, basically, make it so toggles will never drop? Seems a bit excessive to me... Might as well just change them so they're autos with a -end portion!
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by ShadowNate
;_; ?!?! What the heck is wrong with you, my god, I have never been so confused in my life!
|
Quote:
Yes, something would change, because things in your suggestion wouldn't allow for anything to be 'Same thing that happens now'. |
Originally Posted by UltraPrime
Same thing that happens now. Queued up power gets the first shot at defense. Then all the toggles in the same order that they take end out of the bar. Currently they go in a given order, depending on their tick rate and order of activation. In the current way it works, the toggle would just drop. You have not status protection period.
So again, nothing changes from current implementation other then the toggle suppresses instead of drops. |
You see, activation time and toggles are put in place for the reason of balance. YES, your Scrapper has to run around the room like a frail chimp because one shot from the mean Mr. Bad would damn-near kill him, because if he didn't have a bit of vulnerability, he'd be OVERPOWERED.
Quote:
I remember that there was a similar suggestion in the past. It suggested toggles to lose certain effectiveness when the endurance drops to a certain level.|
Originally Posted by UltraPrime
Queued up power gets the first shot at defense. Then all the toggles in the same order that they take end out of the bar. Currently they go in a given order, depending on their tick rate and order of activation. In the current way it works, the toggle would just drop. You have not status protection period.
|
I think the suggestion in this thread is ok technically. I don't see a big problem about the order to suppress toggles. As explained in the quote, different powers tick at a slightly different time. In the case of two powers ticking exactly at the same time, then the server can randomly pick a power to suppress.
There are several posts saying that the suggested scheme would make toggles become auto powers. I think this is not really accurate because the suggested toggles will still use endurance and players are still penalized for running out of endurance.
In my opinion, the suggestion will make endurance drain slightly less effective. Currently, if you're sapped, you become helpless and it takes a while to reactivate all the toggles. Therefore, having all the endurance drained is quite a devastating effect. The suggestion mitigates the endurance drain effect a little. Given that there aren't a lot of ways for mobs to nail players, maybe the suggestion needs a second thought.
Synopsis:
Change toggles so that instead of dropping when you don't have enough end to run them. When there's no endurance, the toggle is suppressed until you have enough endurance.
Implementation:
Currently toggle's endurance cost is deducted from your endurance pool every certain number of server ticks. If there's not enough endurance to pay for the toggle, it drops. This change would simple suppress the toggle until the next server tick when it tries to deduct endurance again. If you have the endurance, the effect of the toggle would be reapplied. A sound effect that a toggle is suppressed would still be helpful. Not sure if existing sound effect still fits, but that's something that I'd trust the sound guys to figure out
So what do you guys think?