infamy/influence cap


Adeon Hawkwood

 

Posted

how about raising the cap on infamy/influence, since it is capped at 2 billion, reason ---we have several purple sets that cost over 1 billion and when you are trying to fully purple out a character you would have to keep asking for help to transferr or logg in another account, my suggestion is to raise cap to 10 billion,i know it may sound like alot but to the die-hard gamers most would understand i hope, what do you all think???


 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by alphaman23 View Post
how about raising the cap on infamy/influence, since it is capped at 2 billion, reason ---we have several purple sets that cost over 1 billion and when you are trying to fully purple out a character you would have to keep asking for help to transferr or logg in another account, my suggestion is to raise cap to 10 billion,i know it may sound like alot but to the die-hard gamers most would understand i hope, what do you all think???
Purple prices will go down after I16 is released. Trust me.


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Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by alphaman23 View Post
how about raising the cap on infamy/influence, since it is capped at 2 billion, reason ---we have several purple sets that cost over 1 billion and when you are trying to fully purple out a character you would have to keep asking for help to transferr or logg in another account, my suggestion is to raise cap to 10 billion,i know it may sound like alot but to the die-hard gamers most would understand i hope, what do you all think???
I agree, raise the cap!


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Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by alphaman23 View Post
how about raising the cap on infamy/influence, since it is capped at 2 billion, reason ---we have several purple sets that cost over 1 billion and when you are trying to fully purple out a character you would have to keep asking for help to transferr or logg in another account, my suggestion is to raise cap to 10 billion,i know it may sound like alot but to the die-hard gamers most would understand i hope, what do you all think???

Even better reduce it - that way the overinflated prices wouldn't be charged as there would be no way for the AH to handle it.


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Posted

The 2 billion cap on inf* is most likely a technical limitation related to the way the value is processed by the game in the character data - most likely it is stored as a 32-bit signed integer, the maximum value of which is about 2.147 billion.


 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Reiska View Post
The 2 billion cap on inf* is most likely a technical limitation related to the way the value is processed by the game in the character data - most likely it is stored as a 32-bit signed integer, the maximum value of which is about 2.147 billion.
Beat me to it! They could use an unsigned int and raise the cap to 4b, but that's not a quick change. And who knows what kind of down stream effects this might have. Maybe ones where going to an unsigned int is not an option.


 

Posted

i suggest spending the influence as you have enough to afford the IOs, you would never hit the cap that way problem solved. and honestly i don't know why you wouldn't do it that way, if you can only afford two, you get the first of 5 crazy bonuses they offer. sounds better than waiting for 2 billion to buy a whole set and repeat. And even then, maybe the bonus will enhance your kill speed, increasing influence rate more. just a suggestion. =]


 

Posted

The cap is actually exactly two billion. But yeah, like others I'm all for actually -lowering- the cap. Inflation has gotten high enough, and it can be difficult enough to IO out new toons. It really doesn't need to get any higher. So, if it isn't going to get lowered at all, I'm definitely hoping it won't get raised.

Additionally, raising the cap would make purchasing influence/infamy easier - players could buy more of it at a given time, since they'd be able to hold more of it.

I definitely don't want the cap raised.


 

Posted

The 2 billion cap on INF was probably a value that was considered more than adequate 5+ years ago when the game first started long before we even had a market. The fact that data of that size could be stored in a single 32-bit signed integer is a programming convenience, but I would not call the use of something like that a "technical limitation". Data structures can be created to store numbers much larger than that even in 32-bit environments. Software is not "keeping" this value set at 2 billion.

But having said that I actually think keeping this value at 2 billion would be the best thing for this game.

First of all it's an easy choice because nothing is modified and no additional risk of bugs is introduced. Second it provides a practical hard cap on how much things can cost in this game. Nothing can ever be bought or sold that would ever cost more than 2 billion INF. Frankly I don't think any one single thing should ever cost anywhere near that much regardless. Finally it prevents people from hording more than 2 billion which would motivate the few people who get that much INF to spend/sink it into the game's economy in constructive ways. The -only- thing that allowing people to have more than 2 billion INF would do is encourage price inflation to grow.

Finally as Demobot mentioned I suspect the supply of purples is going to increase after I16 anyway.
The sidekicking/difficulty changes should lead to more farming of missions that would drop purples.
More supply equals cheaper prices...


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Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lothic View Post
Finally as Demobot mentioned I suspect the supply of purples is going to increase after I16 anyway.
The sidekicking/difficulty changes should lead to more farming of missions that would drop purples.
More supply equals cheaper prices...
Keeping in mind that I agree with your last sentence, I have to argue the logic based on the extrapolation you're making.

You're saying that the prices will drop because the supply will increase. The supply will increase because more farming will be done. So far so good. The problem is that same increase in farming will also increase the supply of new influence into the equation at the same relative rate as the increased supply of purples/etc. Therefore there will be no change in the relative supply/demand equation. The supply/demand of the purples is only half of the equation; the other half is the supply/demand of the influence. Since both sides of the equation are going to be increased by the same amount, the relationship between the two will not change due to farming increases.

If there are other changes which will cause an increase in the supply of purples without increasing the supply of inf (or decreasing the supply of inf without decreasing the supply of purples), then yes it would lower the price of the purples.

Up to now, however, I have heard of nothing which would cause such a relative change.

I'd recommend "Human Action" by Ludwig von Mises for an excellent primer on economies, except I haven't read all of it yet so it would likely make me look really stupid later on when someone asked me more about it and I couldn't answer. I've only read selected articles/sections but even in those there has been some excellent information.

Robin


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Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by CoyoteShaman View Post
Keeping in mind that I agree with your last sentence, I have to argue the logic based on the extrapolation you're making.

You're saying that the prices will drop because the supply will increase. The supply will increase because more farming will be done. So far so good. The problem is that same increase in farming will also increase the supply of new influence into the equation at the same relative rate as the increased supply of purples/etc. Therefore there will be no change in the relative supply/demand equation. The supply/demand of the purples is only half of the equation; the other half is the supply/demand of the influence. Since both sides of the equation are going to be increased by the same amount, the relationship between the two will not change due to farming increases.

If there are other changes which will cause an increase in the supply of purples without increasing the supply of inf (or decreasing the supply of inf without decreasing the supply of purples), then yes it would lower the price of the purples.

Up to now, however, I have heard of nothing which would cause such a relative change.

I'd recommend "Human Action" by Ludwig von Mises for an excellent primer on economies, except I haven't read all of it yet so it would likely make me look really stupid later on when someone asked me more about it and I couldn't answer. I've only read selected articles/sections but even in those there has been some excellent information.

Robin
Your assumption of my "purple supply" conclusion is incorrect.

I'm not assuming farming is going to significantly -increase- after I16. If anything it will likely decrease overall without the lure of PLing. But the truly significant shift will be that people will likely start to farm more non-AE oriented things once the rewards with the new difficulty settings become possible.

Look at it this way: If I'm a farmer why would I do things like the AE that get me lots of INF with -no- chance for purples instead of traditional farms which will get me lots of INF -and- purple drops.

The "economics" of that is obvious.


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Posted

Ae has increased the price of purples, because no-one farms normal missions or even plays normal missions anymore.

The inf/Imf a farm AE run gives out is far greater than a normal farm in PI for example.

Due to AE being all liuts or all bosses, normal missions offer varied inf rewards no where near as high as AE.

In I16 with more people dropping purps there will be more on the market lowering the price as has been said, but the statement saying that inf rates will stay the same is false, purple farms drop alot less cash and dont give tickets which also boost players earning per run.

For example

AE run boss farm 12k per liut or 17k per boss, 1500 tickets. Around 12 mill a run usually on the big city map, 1500k of tickets can drop very nice drops on bronze usually around 10mills worth of drops for 1500

Purp farm hero or vill the average per kill is like 5k if that, plus if your very lucky a purp, it's aroundand maybe rare salvage if your lucky, that's about 6 mill per run o the big freaks map city map like AE

So AE drops on average around 20mill or more.

Purp farm drops max 10mill unless you drop a purp which happens every 3-4 runs.

I16 will drop the cash income but boost purp numbers.

All average figures from my own exsperiance etc.


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Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lothic View Post
The 2 billion cap on INF was probably a value that was considered more than adequate 5+ years ago when the game first started long before we even had a market.
I could be off on this, but didn't they raise the inf cap at some point to 2 billion. I seem to recall seeing that it used to be much lower when the game started and they bumped it I think around the time the market did come around.

But I don't see any reason why we need to up the inf cap to more than 2 billion. At the moment it does mean that things can't get more expensive than that. I somewhat agree that they maybe it should be lowered to say around 1 billion (no specific reason, just a nice round number) to bring the cost of somethings back down. Most players playing won't ever hit the 2 billion inf mark anyways. If you really need more, make some alts and transfer some inf. You can easily create 36 characters per server if you get enough slots. Thats 72 billion between all of them. You could even go as far to transfer characters to other servers and do that, but that can get expensive in real life. I have no idea what all you could spend that much influence/infamy on in this game or why you would ever need to hold even that much at one time. If it is a technical limitation (32-bit integer) for the 2 billion cap just changing it could be easier said than done depending, and why fix what isn't broken.


 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by CoyoteShaman View Post
Keeping in mind that I agree with your last sentence, I have to argue the logic based on the extrapolation you're making.

You're saying that the prices will drop because the supply will increase. The supply will increase because more farming will be done. So far so good. The problem is that same increase in farming will also increase the supply of new influence into the equation at the same relative rate as the increased supply of purples/etc. Therefore there will be no change in the relative supply/demand equation. The supply/demand of the purples is only half of the equation; the other half is the supply/demand of the influence. Since both sides of the equation are going to be increased by the same amount, the relationship between the two will not change due to farming increases.

If there are other changes which will cause an increase in the supply of purples without increasing the supply of inf (or decreasing the supply of inf without decreasing the supply of purples), then yes it would lower the price of the purples.

Up to now, however, I have heard of nothing which would cause such a relative change.

I'd recommend "Human Action" by Ludwig von Mises for an excellent primer on economies, except I haven't read all of it yet so it would likely make me look really stupid later on when someone asked me more about it and I couldn't answer. I've only read selected articles/sections but even in those there has been some excellent information.

Robin
The problem I have with this is the supply/demand relationship isn't between influence/infamy and purple IOs, but between demand for purple IOs and supply of purple IOs. The supply of purple IOs will increase much faster than the demand for for them because there are only so many characters that can use them in so many slots. Influence/infamy is one way of getting them, which may decrease slightly in supply, but I'm not worried about that becoming a problem. Plenty of people will be getting cash. Assuming more people are running regular missions to farm purples, then more will be coming in without changing the number of people who can use them. Only lvl 50s can use them really, and them running purple farms to get them in itself will increase supply and reduce demand because some will get what they want in drops as well as supply influence/infamy.


 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by AquaJAWS View Post
The problem I have with this is the supply/demand relationship isn't between influence/infamy and purple IOs, but between demand for purple IOs and supply of purple IOs. The supply of purple IOs will increase much faster than the demand for for them because there are only so many characters that can use them in so many slots. Influence/infamy is one way of getting them, which may decrease slightly in supply, but I'm not worried about that becoming a problem. Plenty of people will be getting cash. Assuming more people are running regular missions to farm purples, then more will be coming in without changing the number of people who can use them. Only lvl 50s can use them really, and them running purple farms to get them in itself will increase supply and reduce demand because some will get what they want in drops as well as supply influence/infamy.
Please take a look at some basic economic theory, then get back to us. Specifically look at the concept of monetary policy in an inflationary environment, and the effect it has on price inflation (which is completely different from actual inflation).


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Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gaia View Post
Even better reduce it - that way the overinflated prices wouldn't be charged as there would be no way for the AH to handle it.
Bwahahaaa... You don't really understand how purples/prices operate, do you? If the cap was lowered, purples would move to an almost entirely black market situation. With no communication, there would be little to no "clean" competition and the price of purples would soar much higher than they are currently. I personally think the cap should be raised, but I'm comfortable with where it is at right now.


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Posted

And what happens to they guy/gal that has 1.5 bill inf lucky enough to get a pvp io that has sold for 1 bill inf it cant be taken of the market without an inf swap or you lose half a billion inf.

As far as few people capping at the 2 bill mark I think over half if not 3/4 of our sg member has hit the mark on one toon.

Right now the market is so lucrative that you can eeasily make a bill to 2 bill a day just playing the market.

The cap needs raised! It is to low given the climate of the market.

Issue 16 may lower over all inf because of the ability to turn in game email off or only allow friends or sg to email so there goes the rtm spam which should mean less rtm inf introduced back into the game. There are builds right now that market brice into the 20 bill range a 2 bill cap is nothing but a hassle.

Prices on the market wont go down till they take exp away from AE and that really needs done.

I dont see the lack of bridges effecting pl at all will make it easier not harder. After all you can join a team take sg tp to RWZ and get teleported to AE and start pling at lvl 1 in I16

You want the game saved or fixed raise the cap and take exp out of AE


 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Big_B2200 View Post
You want the game saved or fixed raise the cap and take exp out of AE

Taking XP out of the AE will have next to no impact on how anyone who has a clue farms. It will, however, serve to destroy any incentive casual players had to use it.


 

Posted

I'd rather see them lower the cap so purples would be at a more reasonable price but thats just me...


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Posted

I think it is very unlikely lowering the cap would reduce prices, much more likely (imho) would be RTM selling the rare/most wanted IOs instead of influence.


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Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by alphaman23 View Post
how about raising the cap on infamy/influence, since it is capped at 2 billion, reason ---we have several purple sets that cost over 1 billion and when you are trying to fully purple out a character you would have to keep asking for help to transferr or logg in another account, my suggestion is to raise cap to 10 billion,i know it may sound like alot but to the die-hard gamers most would understand i hope, what do you all think???

I think the Suggestion and Idea forums are this-a-way:

http://boards.cityofheroes.com/forumdisplay.php?f=603


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Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lothic View Post
Finally it prevents people from hording more than 2 billion which would motivate the few people who get that much INF to spend/sink it into the game's economy in constructive ways. The -only- thing that allowing people to have more than 2 billion INF would do is encourage price inflation to grow.
This is incorrect. The real current inf cap is something like 40 billion inf on one character - just bid 2 billion inf on a recipe or enhancement that doesn't exist (such as a level 53 LotG or a level 1 Hami) and fill 19 of your maximum of 20 market slots with such bids. I know of at least two people who have double-digit billions on multiple toons (I'm not one, unfortunately).

Additionally, lowering the inf cap will accomplish nothing, just like setting price caps will accomplish nothing. People will simply start looking at off-market sources for their IOs and using multiple characters to fund the transactions. If you think prices and supply are bad now, hooooooooo boy would you be in for a shock if we had price caps.


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Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by macskull View Post
This is incorrect. The real current inf cap is something like 40 billion inf on one character - just bid 2 billion inf on a recipe or enhancement that doesn't exist (such as a level 53 LotG or a level 1 Hami) and fill 19 of your maximum of 20 market slots with such bids. I know of at least two people who have double-digit billions on multiple toons (I'm not one, unfortunately).

Additionally, lowering the inf cap will accomplish nothing, just like setting price caps will accomplish nothing. People will simply start looking at off-market sources for their IOs and using multiple characters to fund the transactions. If you think prices and supply are bad now, hooooooooo boy would you be in for a shock if we had price caps.
Funny, I got negative rep for saying almost the same thing.

Speaking as an individual who is about to break 4B and get started on my 5thB (on ONE single character), the cap has no effect on prices--that is supply and demand. And as I've said before, lowering the cap is just going to move stuff to an actual black market.

What if there were no purple or pvp recipes. Follow me? And the inf. cap was lowered to 100,000. How would you out-compete everyone and their mother with 100K for that LotG or Numina? Think about it.

It's like saying, "Let's give everyone free money, then we'll all be rich." For about two seconds. Then economic reality hits. City of Heroes-style fake economics, but economics all the same.


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Posted

Personally I'm all for lowering the inf cap or for instating price caps on hard-to-get objects because that would make me filthy rich.


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Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Caleb_Nokama View Post
Taking XP out of the AE will have next to no impact on how anyone who has a clue farms. It will, however, serve to destroy any incentive casual players had to use it.
I thought AE was for user created story arcs not for farming. The incentive would be if your tired of stealing Egons ID for 3000th time you could look to new intresting missions.

It would also force the casual player back into the correct zone playing on teams what an intresting concept. Getting to lvl 50 and know what sirens call is or how to get to grandville. Prior to AE I dont remember those kind of questions in broadcast several times a day.

And as the devs have done since the release of AE is to discourge and delete farms to make the content easier to find.

There will always be farms in the game but since AE the game has centered around farming not around the game.