Various tank questions


Blpup

 

Posted

Alright, my first post, yay me. I have some questions reguarding the tank class. I am fairly new to the game still so am figuring alot of things out for the first time.

My question is this...

I am interested in rolling a shield/axe or shield/mace tank...however I notice that there are not alot of people using ax or mace, let alone shield...at least with the people Ive grouped with. How viable are either of those specs and if anyone can help me on what to choose it would be wonderful.

I mean, I could be all fotm and roll a stone/stone, but that is the last thing I want to do, I mean when I rolled my kin I didnt choose fire cause thats what everyone else was pretty much.

So what do you all sugest? I am interested in both of these for looks alone, but at the same time I want them to be viable tanks.


 

Posted

Sheild/SS = win


 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Blpup View Post
Sheild/SS = win
Thank you so much for answering my question...

So anyone else wish to contribute?

Topic is shield/axe or shield/mace...are either of these viable or able to be made viable? And if so can anyone help me with said spec for either or, id prefer the ax over the mace if possible.


 

Posted

Play what you want, you will enjoy the game more, from a pve standpoint at least (I don't PvP so wouldn't know) all are viable.

I don't know (other than percieved Fotm builds like you say) why you don't see many mace or axe tanks around. For me I find it a conceptual thing in that I find the weapon users fits with scrappers more than tanks so I have never made one that uses a big pointy stick to beat things down with. Also shields is a newer power set than some of the others like stone/fire/inv etc, so you probably find there are simply more of the older types still kicking about from before you could even pick shields as a tanking option.

As I say though, just pick what you want and go with it, always the best way in my book.


 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Blpup View Post
Sheild/SS = win
Versus:
Quote:
when I rolled my kin I didnt choose fire cause thats what everyone else was pretty much
So i asume he doesnt want to take /SS.

My few thoughts on both, theme wise they both look awsome.
Both have redraw issues, specialy with no healling u need stuff like aidself and shield charge will also remove your weapon, next attack u draw it again. Also that mez-clicky afaik removes weapon, another annoying point.

Damage wise, mace got alot of love not long again, now doing slightly more damage then axe. With secondairy effect stun its not that loved, we all still know the 'i wonder off 100ft because i just got stunned' mobs. Axe has knockdown, very nice to have and with some luck you can keep em on their back nonstop. Mace however got a annoying 'chrrrr' sound, while axe really has that 'SWOOOP' sound (basicly, broadsword).

Downside? Both are SL. Their AoE isnt really that much damage, some of the animation are still quite long and the cone/AoE is very small. They both have no ranged ability and every epic pool u pick will result in redraw. Both also are in my feeling what low on damage, specialy against SL resisted mobs this can be very annoying (council werewolfs etc).

*how much that BaB dude can talk, redraw does affect your character, timewise. Be it only 0,5 sec upto 1sec, having this every freaking time gets plain annoying. Weaponbased sets still are 'lesser' then others, specialy if you use powers of the other sets alot (epic/primairy/pool). They keep continuing trashout more and more weaponbased sets (bow, dualblade, soon dual gun), while never fixing the 'core issue'. Imaging how it plays wit a merc/TA/mace, activily using every power.


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Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by SinergyX_EU View Post
Versus:


My few thoughts on both, theme wise they both look awsome.
Both have redraw issues, specialy with no healling u need stuff like aidself and shield charge will also remove your weapon, next attack u draw it again. Also that mez-clicky afaik removes weapon, another annoying point.

Damage wise, mace got alot of love not long again, now doing slightly more damage then axe. With secondairy effect stun its not that loved, we all still know the 'i wonder off 100ft because i just got stunned' mobs. Axe has knockdown, very nice to have and with some luck you can keep em on their back nonstop. Mace however got a annoying 'chrrrr' sound, while axe really has that 'SWOOOP' sound (basicly, broadsword).

Downside? Both are SL. Their AoE isnt really that much damage, some of the animation are still quite long and the cone/AoE is very small. They both have no ranged ability and every epic pool u pick will result in redraw. Both also are in my feeling what low on damage, specialy against SL resisted mobs this can be very annoying (council werewolfs etc).
So I am going to go with the thought that neither of these would be good at end game level for tanking unless I put alot of money and time into it? Am I right?


 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pomeray View Post
So I am going to go with the thought that neither of these would be good at end game level for tanking unless I put alot of money and time into it? Am I right?
Not really. They got everything, bit of jack of all trade. They got a solid attack chain, secondairy effects are handy and the moves are quite fun (headsplitter still gives that 'DODGE THIS!' feeling).

But they have nothing to make them 'unique' to others.

They have 'issues', but if you can live with those, both are very enjoyable sets. (i did change the sound of the mace, because i dont like it).


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Posted

I have a buddy that has a Shield/Mace and it's a pretty solid build tho it may be end heavy you'll learn how to play your tank over time plus the dmg is always a plus with mace or axe. mace being a bit more faster and axe hitting a bit more harder but almost being quite the same in the end. mace(smash) axe(Lethal)



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Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by SinergyX_EU View Post
Not really. They got everything, bit of jack of all trade. They got a solid attack chain, secondairy effects are handy and the moves are quite fun (headsplitter still gives that 'DODGE THIS!' feeling).

But they have nothing to make them 'unique' to others.

They have 'issues', but if you can live with those, both are very enjoyable sets. (i did change the sound of the mace, because i dont like it).
Ok so one last question/oppinion and I will leave you alone.

Ok so youve said neither have a heal, so power pool wise, and this is just from off the top of my head but im thinking leaping, fitness and (bah I cant remember) the healing one.

Would that make sense to do?


 

Posted

Medicine pool Yes, that in case of shield would be most viable and since you are def-based less likely to be interupted - downside is a cooldown after the heal.. slightly annoying). Hasten is trivia, since the clicky of Shield recharge rather fast (2 SO is perma i believe - although you have no -slow resist) and tier9 is non-enhanceble. Your attacks you can go for a mix of acc/dmg/rech/end (end might help alot here) and go without hasten.

You might get a very very tight build to push everything in, i personaly (outside granite) always take tough, and in case of shield i prefer taking weave along it. (and CJ offcourse)

Then again, thats what dual builds are for, you can have a easy-solo build and a def-maxed out build for the tanking.


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Posted

I got Shield Mace, I tend to make pure builds with like full primary and full secondary leveling up. I had relatively little trouble until I ran into a group which had a pet that made me unmissable, but Clobber from the secondary put an end to that.

I think leveling up should be your teacher really, you can learn to play a build that suits your concept and/or play a build that is more fun and confident given the team dynamics.

Shields is pretty much like SR to me and with Aid Self its pretty much off its head but it does depend on how you play it though.

You won't have to put a lot of money to into a Shield/Any to make it viable for anything in PvE Dev created. SO builds can achieve the same goals however your performance and techniques should differ. So yes it is viable.


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Posted

Thank you for all your input folks.

I ended up going with shield/axe, so we shall see where things go. I have an idea of what i am going to get for powers as I go, hopefully everything will play out as I plan, though we all know how that is eh?


 

Posted

I took a Shield/Axe to level 50.

Endurance is going to be a fairly major problem, so I took Conserve Power, 1wtS, and got the Croatoa accolade. Endurance is only a problem if you run out, and these three powers, combined with smart slotting and Stamina, will keep you from running out.

Before level 26, you're going to be focused on single target. Invest early in Swoop, it's the best ST attack and will serve you well. Avoid Whirling Axe, even slotted it does mediocre damage, and takes too long to animate.

If you -must- slot Beheader, slot it with procs.

At level 26, your life changes completely. Shield Charge is the most powerful attack you have. It's a reason to Hasten. It's your alpha strike, and fully slotted, it will wipe out spawns who will crumble beneath your wake. This is when you make your transition to an AoE based build, with this and Pendulum. Placement for pendulum is -easy- because SC is also a teleport. Set it -exactly- where you need to. You -will- use this power every fight, and you will -want- to. The damage is so good it's worth bringing against single hard targets.

You go, Build Up, Shield Charge, and Pendulum, and most of the spawn will be very slim pickings indeed. If they are tougher mobs, then a couple Cleaves and Swoops will take care of them for sure. As well, you'll have a LOT of agro from the survivors, even before Taunt auras kick in. It'll be hard to peel off you before you use your actual tools.


 

Posted

I have a Shield/Mace tanker who got to level 50 reasonably fast. This tanker self caps to both melee and AoE damage, and is just a hair shy of the mark versus ranged damage. This is my favourite tank to take into the new Dr Kahn task force. Made it there with a very minimal investment of set IO bonuses - the cheap ones like Multi Strike are easily good enough, and as Shield/Mace you can easily install several sets.

It has the usual problems of defense sets. It only gets really good late in the game. Exemping down is bad: you lose whole fields of defense when you lose the powers. Endurance is a bit of an issue, at least until you get IO sets with reduction in your major attacks.

Finding a character concept you want to play is a lot more important than picking sets for uberl33tness. The main thing is whether you can sustain interest in the character.



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Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pomeray View Post
Alright, my first post, yay me. I have some questions reguarding the tank class. I am fairly new to the game still so am figuring alot of things out for the first time.

My question is this...

I am interested in rolling a shield/axe or shield/mace tank...however I notice that there are not alot of people using ax or mace, let alone shield...at least with the people Ive grouped with. How viable are either of those specs and if anyone can help me on what to choose it would be wonderful.

I mean, I could be all fotm and roll a stone/stone, but that is the last thing I want to do, I mean when I rolled my kin I didnt choose fire cause thats what everyone else was pretty much.

So what do you all sugest? I am interested in both of these for looks alone, but at the same time I want them to be viable tanks.
Either is fine (tons of Shield Tankers abound and not a few Axe and WM to boot).

You may find Shield a little on the squishy side until you get to figuring out builds and IOs. Just be prepared but Shield fills out nicely and Shield Charge will make you cream your pants

P.S. - I have a Shield/WM ... it's a strong build.

P.P.S. - Just noticed Heraclea's post above and I agree 100% with her.


 

Posted

I just hit 50 with my Shield/Warmace Tank yesterday (thanks to Garthalus wonderful guide). This was my first Tank after more than 60 months playing the game and I never got into them. This Tank is so much fun and I don't have Aid Self but did tank the ITF on an 8 man team with absolutely no problems. I was concerned because of the def debuff, but they didn't hit me that much to begin with.

The smashing damage isn't as much resistet as I thought (my first Char doing smashing dmg). And the overall dmg isn't that bad either. Shield Charge of course is just a fun power to use.

I can't provide a Link of Garthalus Guide, but I suggest to look for it, it is very well writen und helpful.

I didn't put a lot of money in my tank, got 1 Maco Set slotted, 3 Crushing Impacts and some frankenslotting (Combat Jumping + Tough/Weave) and she is just a bit over 50% to all positions. I took all of the primary except One with the Shield and all the Secondary except Pulverize. No epic though.

I suggest you try it out, really the dmg isn't as bad as some people say it is. Personally when I solo, I just herd some spawns together and then start using my AoEs only (Crow Control, Shield Charge, Shatter and Whirling Mace), so end isn't an issue for me. When you knock them down it's super easy to line them up for Shatter (45° cone).

Oh just saw you already decided for Axe. Well you get a lot more unlockable options for your Axe than we get for our Warmaces Still wonder why.


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Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Razia View Post
Oh just saw you already decided for Axe. Well you get a lot more unlockable options for your Axe than we get for our Warmaces Still wonder why.
You hit the nail right on the head with that one there, thats exactly why I took axe...thats not to say I wont ever roll a mace/shield, but for now im gonna work with this one see what happens.


 

Posted

I had a SD/Fire and deleted at 46. It was fun to play, but not as durable as i'm use to in a tank. Good luck with yours. Axe, btw, had very nice looking unlocks. I like the Talsorian, to be specific.

Oh, my with rolled a Stone/Stone tank and it's a blast. I also have an Invul/Stone which is also fun. Granite Armor is a blast if you get the run recipes. Mine runs at 18mph in GA. A good friend of mine runs in the 20's. It's a funny thing to see. He runs faster Rooted than a toon without Sprint. lol.


 

Posted

I do prefer my BS/SD scrapper, stupid enough he can hit way higher melee defence at already 22 then my tanker probably will ever reach, wooooooo for parry.


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Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Razia View Post
Crow Control
Crow Control should be the next thing they add, after Carp Melee. Bat Control for villains.



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Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by SinergyX_EU View Post
I do prefer my BS/SD scrapper, stupid enough he can hit way higher melee defence at already 22 then my tanker probably will ever reach, wooooooo for parry.
Try a BS/Fire Scrapper ... much better


 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pomeray View Post
You hit the nail right on the head with that one there, thats exactly why I took axe...thats not to say I wont ever roll a mace/shield, but for now im gonna work with this one see what happens.
There are more *unlockables* for Axe than Mace, but there are a lot more total options for Mace than Axe. (19 versus 12, according to Paragonwiki's weapon customization page)

Personally, I like the customizations more for Mace than Axe, I prefer Stuns to KB (though having the mix in Mace in nice) and I just plain like Mace a lot more than Axe. As you can see in my sig, I have a 50 and an over 40 Macer, but I'm still struggling to get my Axe tank past 30.


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Posted

I also have a shield tank /War Mace and am struggling with it. It looks like the guides are down, so I do not really have a reference to look up and read about. *sigh*

I am find myself a *bit* on the squishy side, and was struggling with a 7 person spawn at level 17. I am assuming the shield defense is likely a late bloomer, so I am going to have to struggle through a bit of tough times before I come into my own.

I am also having trouble managing agro. I am new to MMOGs and this agro concept is also new to me. I had to take taunt at level 10 as the agro was completely out of my control, I dont know how tanks can go without taunt, especially at a low level.

Do I need to be a bit more cautious with this powerset (Shield)?


 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by MrSuzi View Post
I also have a shield tank /War Mace and am struggling with it. It looks like the guides are down, so I do not really have a reference to look up and read about. *sigh*

I am find myself a *bit* on the squishy side, and was struggling with a 7 person spawn at level 17. I am assuming the shield defense is likely a late bloomer, so I am going to have to struggle through a bit of tough times before I come into my own.

I am also having trouble managing agro. I am new to MMOGs and this agro concept is also new to me. I had to take taunt at level 10 as the agro was completely out of my control, I dont know how tanks can go without taunt, especially at a low level.

Do I need to be a bit more cautious with this powerset (Shield)?
Shields is a little of a late bloomer yes, however at L17 *every* Tanker is going to be squishy taking on 7 mob spawns.

It's one of the conumdrums of being a Tanker. Get to L26 and then see how you're fairing ... I think you'll be happier


 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pomeray View Post
I am interested in rolling a shield/axe or shield/mace tank...
I asked about the EXACT same thing a while back. I had already decided on shield and, for concept reasons, wanted to pair it with a melee weapon.

What I took from the discussion: do you prefer stun or knockdown? I already had a tank with energy melee (which does stun) and I happen to find knockdown hysterically funny, so I went with axe.

So, my shield/axe is 2 bars from 50 now. I think it's a great combo and I've been very happy with it.


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