Levels, outdoor missions and pvp - comprehensive suggestion

You completely misunderstand the concept. Some outdoor missions that are instanced in this game take place in existing areas of Steel Canyon, Skyway etc. I'm not proposing new parts to "pop up", i just saying that if you're going to go into a mission to rescue a hostage, fight a boss or click a glowie - why does it have to be in an instance and not in the actual zone? It makes sense when you go to another dimension, but besides that, I'd rather do it in the "real world". I'm not saying we should do it exactly as in lotro or any other game, I'm just saying it works, it works VERY WELL, it's more fun and it makes people feel the game world is alive, real, immersive and an actual part of the game. Patrol missions doesn't, defeat 15 hellions doesn't.

You know what! Two individuals have made me loose ANY interest whatsoever and any respect whatsoever for the playerbase! Critisize is one thing. CONSTRUCTIVE and VALID critisism something completely different! You should try it, you might even like it! We might as well shut this whole section of the forum down! Go play with youself (interpret that in any way you want). With supporters like this, the game don't need enemies!

..and I thought I moaned and whined a lot! I want the old forum back!

For crying out loud. All of you, go back and read my proposal and replies! I can't believe how hard it is for you to understand that concept. Do you only see one word: PVP? What's the point in answering, critizising a proposal if you can't even be bothered to read it? Get off your high anti-pvp horses and try to be constructive or at least use valid objections to what I actually proposed! This is totally rediculous!

Also this

"But I don't wanna PVP!" Well, don't then!!! Once a villain enters a mission, the zone alert could go out. While he/she loads into the zone you'd have plenty of time to get to safety, and most likely it would be more of a chicken race, villains rushing to get away from any danger.

from your original post is what set most of.
the idea fails from this alone.

He's explained a lot about his playstyle, how he like patrols, how he like fighting level one's, etc. Why do you chose to falsify and misinterpret anything and everything? Was it because I said pvp? Is that a bad word? Must anyone that use that word be exorcised or something?

[quote]Full of yourself much? Disagreeing with you is NOT the same thing as "not wanting to improve the game".

Additionally, it's highly debatable whether the things you suggest would be seen as an "improvement" by a large number of the players in the game.[/qute]
Chosing to fantasize about what I've proposed or totaly misunderstand it in such a way it's not possible the antagonist ever really read my proposal (so far anyone that's been negative has fallen into this category), well... Yeah! I do get on my high horses when people chose to bash all they can, not even trying to pick any good stuff out of a suggestion, not even bothering to actually read or try to understand what is proposed. So far noone has actually disagreed with me, except Blue Rabbit, becuase you ppl haven't even tried to understand the proposal. You chose to glanse at it and the start bashing because you saw that horrible word: PvP!

IMHO if you can't be bothered to read and respect the OP's ideas don't expect any respect back, in fact - why bother posting since it's totally improductive! Some people just like to argue for the (whatever) of it, I prefer being productive and constructive.

I've already suggested we completely ditch the pvp suggestion. I'm no fan of pvp anyway, but since the devs seems commited to getting more people to pvp I made a suggestion that would NOT include forcing us all to pvp, to still make it a choise, a simple choise that would not interfere in any way with your game unless you so chose. NOT ONE of you bothered to even TRY to understand that possible mechanic and even though I suggested we forget about it ya'll still rant about it! Since noone bothered to actually read up, I still fail to see a single valid point, since you're all talking about something I've never ever suggested. I should choose to laugh at it, but it makes me rather depressed because if this is the way it's gonna be on these new forums, the devs better not listen at all to any of us.

If I could delete this thread or this complete section I would. Gollygoddarnit! I think I might stick to moaning in defiant events. At least Wabbit might offer me some carrot cake. ...and when I moan it's quality valid epic moans!

Take some prozac or chocolate. Either would help calm you down.

I have no problem with it as long as their points are valid. When they have nothing to do with my suggestion, it's flat out annoying!

The whole point of posting a suggestion - for me - is for people to discuss the pro's AND the con's. What can we do with this suggestion, how can we improve it. If I had a final perfect, flawless suggestion I would PM the devs, email them or even snailmail them. ..but flat out bashing for the (youknowwhat) of it - No I don't accept that. That's either stupid or harrassment!

I bet if I hadn't mentioned pvp....
...come to think of it, I don't even wanna play the game anymore! Time to try CO beta! Guess that's what you all want so you can patrol the zones all alone without interference! Yeah, time to make a one man, total-instanced MMO out of this game!

The reasons these things were made instances was to avoid exactly what you are proposing - other people, be they on the same side as you or enemies, from interfering with you. The game's hardline "no griefing" policy is one of the key features I like about it, because unlike all the other MMOs I've played, there is literally NOTHING anyone can do to me that I cannot shrug off. Ignore and go about your business where other people can't follow you unless you invite them specifically.

Now, and I've said this before, if you want to suggest new missions that work like this and you can come up with a convincing argument for them (and take it from me - "more alive" isn't as convincing as you believe), then I suspect people's reaction would be somewhere between approval and ambivalence. Look at all the negative comments you've gotten thus far and note what they centre on. "I don't want this!" "Don't take that away!" When you suggest a change to the status quo, you need to convince people that their status quo should change. You can't just tell them that's better for them and they should deal with it or avoid it and expect them to be sympathetic. They won't be.

As far as approval goes, I cannot disapprove of an idea to add extra new missions that take place outdoors. As long as this doesn't remove or alter anything I've been doing for the past five years (and if you do want to alter the way people play, I suggest you refrain from saying that because you WILL suffer disgruntled rants over it), then I have no ground to make complaints. You should know, however, that instances weren't introduced haphazardly. They were introduced with the specific and targeted aim to put the meat of the game's content where others cannot interfere with it or be bothered by you engaging in it. This is a rather solid reason, and while I wouldn't be opposed to adding missions that break from it, I cannot condone breaking the policy itself. I cannot agree with it.

Originally Posted by Arcanaville Samuel_Tow is the only poster that makes me want to punch him in the head more often when I'm agreeing with him than when I'm disagreeing with him.

Again, yes, because the enemies, glowies, etc have "just pop up" in the zone. Regardless of what else was going on in there. And if you have half a dozen people running the same mission separately? What then? How do you track what belongs to whom?

No sir. The misunderstanding is YOURS.


Then your faith in them was a sham to begin with.

We're being constructive. We're telling you why your suggestions aren't going to work in this context to allow you to adapt your suggestions to something that would work better.

Now you're freaking out because your "great idea" isn't being received by universal acclaim.

The same thing has been said about using drugs. No thanks.

*Silly rant at people who disagree deleted*


This I can completely agree with, save for the tense.

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So you've never been back in Atlas with a new power, stopped by the parking lot across from Wentworths and used the mobs there as "guinea pigs"?

And I take offense to the intimation that I've falsified what you've said. I have done no such thing.

And I disagree that I have misinterpreted what you said. I purport that you simply have not thought through the ramifications of your "grand scheme" well enough. As such, when the criticism starts, you're feeling like a puppy who has had his nose slapped.

I READ your proposal. Stating that I've "misunderstood it" and failing to provide clarification about what I actually misunderstood is disingenuous at best. Downright dishonest at worst.

So please. CLARIFY.

Where did I bash you? You made a suggestion that, ostensibly, is for the improvement of the game. I'm all about improving the game. However, I feel that your approach left something to be desired and let you know. If disagreeing with you (or simply failing to agree with you) is your idea of "bashing", you should get used to it.

[quote]So far noone has actually disagreed with me[q/uote]

You didn't actually read what I wrote then. You simply reacted to someone who didn't agree with you. I disagreed with you on the issue of instancing the missions in-zone. I pointed out that there would be a massive amount of processing involved in tacking a mission into the zone. In my last reply to you I clarified it even more and questioned what would happen when you had multiple instances of the mission spawning in-zone. How do you track who's mission critters you're fighting?

This has exactly JACK *BLEEP!* to do with "respect". Anyhow, respect is something you EARN. You don't command it. So far, you haven't impressed me in any way that would earn my respect.

This is an internet bulletin board. I don't expect respect from anyone on it. If I get it, I'm both amazed and gratified.

You, OTOH, seem to expect that your "wonderful vision" be accepted without question. And that anyone who disagrees in any way, especially after you change tacks and say "ignore this one part" then accuse anyone still disagreeing with other parts of not having gotten past the first issue, is simply being obtuse and argumentative.

Again, if you wanted no criticism of your idea. Write it down on a notepad and never share it with anyone. If you want to find out if people think it is feasible or would enjoy something like this (and YOUR enjoyment isn't an indicator that OTHERS would enjoy it too), be prepared for criticism as the idea is ripped to shreds and rebuilt several times.

Also, again, this is a bulletin board. Not real-time conversation. Not everyone reads through the entire thread before posting. So if you keep seeing "PVP = t3h DEVIL!" after you said to "forget the PVP stuff then", be aware that this may simply be a function of the non-realtime nature of the board.

You said "ditch PVP" yet still keep harping about how it's a Good Idea.

*Sigh*

You have failed to actually elucidate HOW such a system is "voluntary". Other than simply not participating in it and getting/staying out of the zone.

Well, people who wind up getting their foot stuck in their mouth and embarrassing themselves usually don't want evidence that they've done so being bandied around. Take "StarWars Kid" for instance.

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Can
I
Have
Your
Stuff?

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No. They're not "mental".

They simply introduce a host of difficult questions that he's loathe to address. We asked said difficult questions and were rebuffed.

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Take it on the chin mate, it wont hurt for long.

Uhm. What?

Not sure if you read me right. I said his questions aren't mental. Simply that their implementation would bring up other issues.

Not sure how "taking it on the chin" factors into this. Care to illuminate?

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I was trying to lighten the mood, my bad.

In a very big way, these are words of truth. This is a public forum. Anything posted here is going to face responses from other people, both good or bad. Anyone making a suggestion should be aware of this this and expect that some may agree, some may disagree, and some may write it out of hand. Accepting criticism, both good and bad, and then working WITH it, rather than AGAINST it, is key. Claiming that people who disagree are not constructive is a fallacy. Any comment that has a point is valid, even if all it consists of is "This suggestion will never happen, and here is why:" The point of making a suggestion thread isn't to piledrive your point across to the developers, it's to present your idea to the playerbase and get an early estimate of how good it is. If players can punch holes in it, then it's not as good as you think.

On the flip side, no one responding to a suggestion is obligated to try and IMPROVE it, or be deemed a jerk. This was absurd the first time I saw it, and it hasn't gotten less absurd now. This assumes that only people who WANT the suggestion should reply, and people who do not want the suggestion in any way, shape or form should shut up and go post somewhere else, which isn't the proper way to discuss a suggestion. Quite on the contrary, I would encourage people who HATE a suggestion to post what they hate about it, such that a suggestion can be made to both retain as much of the original idea AND do as little harm as possible to people who don't like it. "But it won't bother you much!" is a bad argument when you give the person it won't bother NOTHING back. "My fun is more important than your fun because my fun is better for the game and represents more people's preference" is what this tends to come down to, at which point people start telling each other to go to hell.

NEVER make a suggestion with the expectation that it is good or will be well-received. ALWAYS make a suggestion with the expectation that it is terrible and people are going to hate it and work to mitigate those aspects BEFORE you post, and then keep working to mitigate them thereafter. Building a suggestion just based on what you would really want without anticipating that a lot of people may not want it, and may even want not to have it, then ignoring the fact that, no, people REALLY don't like it, is a recipe for disappointment, hissy fits and acts of condemning all humanity.

Originally Posted by Arcanaville Samuel_Tow is the only poster that makes me want to punch him in the head more often when I'm agreeing with him than when I'm disagreeing with him.

No problem. Raw text is just an atrocious manner for conveying verbal shading. Why I figured it was better to ask than go postal at you for a possibly innocent comment.

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To paraphrase - the US & the UK - two countries separated by a common language. (with thanks to GB Shaw, IIRC)

I think the Harry Potter and Doctor Who fans in the US probably got what "mental" meant, but got lost in the rest of Londoner's post. Always good to check understanding!