Controllers, controllers and more controllers...

Please, bear with me and my indecision, because I really need help deciding and I will not settle for a "create all of them and play them to see which you like".

The thing is, I have lots of chracters and, among them, several controllers: Mind/Empathy (50), Earth/Storm (50), Plant/Radiation (25) and Fire/Kinetics (22).

I really do not like to repeat sets with different characters, even if they are of different ATs. I avoid it most of the time. But can do it if necessary.

Now, I want to create a one or two more controllers, namely an Illusion/* and a Gravity/*

I am also decided to try the Forcefields set, be it in a controller or a defender.

My questions:

1- Would be very different (in playstyle and efficiency) to create a FF/* defender to try the set? In that case, what blast secondary?

2- Which of the aforementioned controller primaries would have better sinergy with FF?

3- What other secondary would you suggest I pair the controller primary that I do not pair with FF?

Things to consider:

The character would play mostly in teams and very ocasionally solo for a mish or two. For me is more important that the character is fun and entertaining to play and able to perform its functions in a team than that he is able to solo fast and deal a lot of damage (for that I got my blasters/scrappers/brute/corruptor...).

Thematic sinergy in powersets combination is a plus for me. That is a reason why I do not like my fire/kin very much, tbh.

Thanks in advance for your commentaries.

Okay from a FF defender point i can tell you set is not that shinny. First forget solo, even with a solo build. Completing a radio mission takes nearly an hour with my FF/Psi solo build. Your chances will be higher with better secondary tho', like Energy Blast. That KBs will help you to keep your skin smooth. For teaming go for a high damage set like Ice or Sonic, maybe as Maelwyn said Archery (never tried it on a defender for so long) which will remove the need for stamina in your build as both sets are end light. Rest after buffs or popping up one little blue will help keep you going.

On teams your two bubbles most important things, we completed Synapse TF without any kind of healing with both Cold and FF shields. Dispersion Bubble is more useful with new toggle system. As most mezzers open their attacks with sleeps, you don't get held with their second attack at least. Detention Field is one of the most hated powers in teams but golden when soloing. Force Bolt is a good control power with its fast recharge and high KB. When you hit a mob with Force Bolt it gives you enough time to launch your sniper attack. Other powers for me are more for personal taste (not sure about Force Bubble still doesn't reach that high with a bubbler unfortunately)

I build my bubbler for ghosting TFs. Invisibility + Recall Friend + PFF give you ability to ghost every mission. So if you want to go for controller option ill/FF will be too good choice. You can do it with a defender too. Also with 2 bubbles, dispersion bubble, group invisibility and manuveurs (sp?) your team mates will get close to soft defense cap. Only down side of ill/ff is it can become boring fast as both sets are fire and forget sets. Illusion don't have an attack chain so after buffing team and summoning your pets things you can do is very limited. On defender side you will be poor man's blaster in team. After bubbles up rest of your time is wasted with blasting hell outta bad guys.

Don't like Gravity set so i don't have any idea about it other than Propels animation takes so long. Possibly your team will be moving to next mob when your animation ends.

That's all i can think for now. Ask any question if i murdered English somewhere and you don't understand.

Have fun,

Knightly

Thanks for answers Knightly.

I understood you perfectly and I think I am the biggest offender when it comes to murder English (the language, heh).

I know that FF can be boring, but on ther other hand if used on a controller, I hope it will leave me some time to dedicate to actually controlling. I know my Mind/Empath is usually too stressing on teams, because secondary is very busy... I like it though, but not in too long doses.

Yeah i think Mind needs a less busy secondary like Rad or FF maybe Sonic. For me illusion is more suited for busy secondaries like Kin, Thermal or Empathy hmmm maybe TA.

If you decided to try both primaries maybe Gravity is a better option as it have an attack chain from early levels. So you can try illusion with more busy secondary.

Personally if I was to pick up FF I would definately do it on a controller as it is a pretty lazy set and you need to pair it with something active, but no matter how active you blast with defenders I just cannot get enthusiastic about it without a debuffing of self buffing primary.

To that end I would not pair FF with Illusion, because Illusion is a fairly lazy set too, or at least the main powers are. Illusion/FF would leave you with only spectral wounds and blind (Really) to play with in between summon and buff cycles.

I have no idea about Gravity but if it is an active set then it would probably mesh well with FF.

My personal fave set to pair with Illusion is Kinetics because it is so active, but Kinetics isn't to everyones taste.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aggelakis PrincessDarkstar: "RAAAAAAAAARRRRRRRRRGHHHHHHHHHH SOMEONE IS *WRONG* ON THE INTERNET!"

Ill/Sonic, Ice/FF or Earth/FF would be my suggestions for great and yet not so common combos.

Ill/Sonic: Shields, mez protection, pseudo-tanks (on which you can use Disruption Field), pretty good damage (especially ST)

Ice/FF: Bubbles on top of massive -rech and good crowd control tools

Earth/FF: Bubbles on top of the bestest crowd control primary PvE wise

I would argue that /ff would be better at pseudo tnaking than /sonic due to defence benefits low hp at´s more than resistance.

I think by pseudo tanks he meant you can cast disruption field on PA?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aggelakis PrincessDarkstar: "RAAAAAAAAARRRRRRRRRGHHHHHHHHHH SOMEONE IS *WRONG* ON THE INTERNET!"

The answer is obviously Illusion Control/Storm Summoning. With Hasten.

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The answer is obviously Illusion Control/Storm Summoning. With Hasten.

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The OP has already played a Stormie secondary though (although I agree, Ill/Storm is fantastic)

As far as the "What other secondary for the Primary I don't pick to go with Forcefield" I'd say Trick Arrow. Illusion & Grav both get complemented very nicely by Trick Arrow (although with Grav it takes a while to bloom).

I tried Gravity/FF before and it's a good mesh between an active primary and a lazy secondary. Between your buff cycle you'll have Lift, Crush and Propel.

I also tried Illusion/FF. It's very, very boring...

My suggestions: Gravity/FF and Illusion/Radiation or Kinetics for little PA downtime.

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My suggestions: Gravity/FF and Illusion/Radiation or Kinetics for little PA downtime.

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This ^

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aggelakis PrincessDarkstar: "RAAAAAAAAARRRRRRRRRGHHHHHHHHHH SOMEONE IS *WRONG* ON THE INTERNET!"

ahhh i read dispersion, sorry

Thanks a lot all for your suggestions

I have finally rolled a Gravity / FF and I am currently duoing him with a friend (level pact) that rolled a Archery/Energy blaster.

So far I like it a lot . A pity that lift does not do a lot of damage, but thanks to propel I am good. And PFF is a life-saver, really!

I will roll a Illusion/kin or Illusion/Rad as someone suggested... soon. Thanks again!

Lift does reasonable damage as long as you don't try using it on the mob you have just held. Gravity's hold does a lot of -knock* and from what I see lift does zero damage against foes that don't get knocked back, up or down. Also remember your hold does as much if not more damage than Propel its just a lot of it is DoT

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Gravity's hold does a lot of -knock*

[/ QUOTE ]This is the only part of your post that is not false.

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Gravity's hold does a lot of -knock*

[/ QUOTE ]This is the only part of your post that is not false.

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From that comment I can only draw the conclusion you haven't seen what slotting the hold for damage does.
It makes for a huge part of a Grav trollers dps and if you don't think it does DoT I don't know what you think does and I certainly see no damage figures from a foe which I have just held when hit by lift. I also see about 2/3 of the damage of propel from lift when used on a foe that hasn't been held

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Gravity's hold does a lot of -knock*

[/ QUOTE ]This is the only part of your post that is not false.

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From that comment I can only draw the conclusion you haven't seen what slotting the hold for damage does.
It makes for a huge part of a Grav trollers dps and if you don't think it does DoT I don't know what you think does and I certainly see no damage figures from a foe which I have just held when hit by lift. I also see about 2/3 of the damage of propel from lift when used on a foe that hasn't been held

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Lift does reasonable damage as long as you don't try using it on the mob you have just held. Gravity's hold does a lot of -knock* and from what I see lift does zero damage against foes that don't get knocked back, up or down.

[/ QUOTE ]"From what I see" is never reliable. As with every single other power in the game that deals damage and has a knock* component, it doesn't matter whether or not the knock* is suppressed or not, it'll still do damage. In fact, it'll do double damage thanks to Containment.[ QUOTE ]
Also remember your hold does as much if not more damage than Propel its just a lot of it is DoT

[/ QUOTE ]Crush: 30.6 base damage.
Propel: 59.9 base damage.

Maybe you're the one that hasn't seen what slotting Propel for damage does, or hasn't been paying attention to the combat log when using Lift on Held foes?

I am guessing the difference in damage can be made up with procs, because you can get I think 3 (Maybe 4) in a hold and only 1 in propel?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aggelakis PrincessDarkstar: "RAAAAAAAAARRRRRRRRRGHHHHHHHHHH SOMEONE IS *WRONG* ON THE INTERNET!"

Technically you may be right, but by putting 3 or 4 procs in hold you are really gimping your hold

If you're looking to PROC something in Gravity there can be only one choice. Crushing Field.

I'd agree with Cog, slotting your main hold with Procs really gimps the hold aspect of it.

The only time I slot a single target hold for damage is using set IOs once the Hold has been fully slotted up.

Slotting the "chance for smashing damage" proc from the purple hold set usually produces as much extra damage (or even slightly more - when averaged over time) as slotting up a hold for damage. Expensive, sure... but it means that slotting a hold with 5 or 6 of the purples doesn't lose you any real damage output.

[/ QUOTE ]Crush: 30.6 base damage.
Propel: 59.9 base damage.



[/ QUOTE ]

Well Crush is the immob power not the hold
Gravity Distortion has a base damage of 33.64 however it has a acc mod of 1.2 rather than Propel's 1.0 in other words you can expect it to hit more often. - either that or save a slot that would otherwise be used for acc and instead add some recharge to it which will increase total damage. The other big problem with propel which will greatly reduce the damage you see from it is that it has a huge activation time of 3.5 seconds and in a good team your target will normally be on its way to the Zig before it fires.
You need to look at the whole picture not just a single figure out of context.

Also from my combat tab - yes lift does indeed show up and containment is affecting it - it looks as if there is a bug in that the damage numbers do not show over the mob on a held opponent.

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You need to look at the whole picture not just a single figure out of context.

[/ QUOTE ]I don't mean to be rude or hostile, but I think you need to stop spouting nonsense. If you're talking about DPS, then say so, but per use Propel will always outdamage any other power in Gravity Control. I admit I got the powers in question mixed up, but you yourself showed there's not much difference in the damage.[ QUOTE ]
Also from my combat tab - yes lift does indeed show up and containment is affecting it - it looks as if there is a bug in that the damage numbers do not show over the mob on a held opponent.

[/ QUOTE ]You might not be noticing it because Lift has a damage delay (the time it would normally take for the mob to fly through the air) which is not removed when the mob is affected by -KB. What is it, about one or one-and-a-half seconds between cast and damage dealt?

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You need to look at the whole picture not just a single figure out of context.

[/ QUOTE ]I don't mean to be rude or hostile, but I think you need to stop spouting nonsense.

[/ QUOTE ]

I think I was probably a bit over defensive in my response - posting whilst wound up is never a good idea.

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If you're talking about DPS, then say so, but per use Propel will always outdamage any other power in Gravity Control.

[/ QUOTE ]

Not really straight DPS more the sort of level of contribution it makes in a typical attack chain taking into account the impact that other team members have. Solo or in a small team you see its full benifit which as you say is significantly more than the other powers, however in a large high damage team I find this to be much less of an advantage due to its high activation time - I'll frequently see about half of my attacks with propel either cancelled as the target dies before it activates or worse between its interrupt and actication time so it ends up being fired at a corpse which is a real pity given how much fun propel is. OK granted the team also tends to defeat mobs with DoT from the Hold and Immob still to be applied which will obviously reduce the impact from those as well - it just less noticible and definitely less frustrating.

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I admit I got the powers in question mixed up, but you yourself showed there's not much difference in the damage.

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Personally I think the devs got them mixed up when they named them. Crush as a name seems to fit the hold better than the immob and I mix them up myself frequently.

I always thought Crush did much lower damage than it does and it may be I was attributing some of this damage to the hold

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Also from my combat tab - yes lift does indeed show up and containment is affecting it - it looks as if there is a bug in that the damage numbers do not show over the mob on a held opponent.

[/ QUOTE ]You might not be noticing it because Lift has a damage delay (the time it would normally take for the mob to fly through the air) which is not removed when the mob is affected by -KB. What is it, about one or one-and-a-half seconds between cast and damage dealt?

[/ QUOTE ]
Yes that may be the problem - especially when it registers after a later attack has hit.