Trials and Taskforces

Sapphic_Neko · 02-11-2009 11:41 AM

Oh yea, didn't think on that. Been trying to repress the 6 hours 47 min SSTF1 i did last time, from my memory

OV_ohms · 02-11-2009 11:42 AM

Octavian Vanguard
@ohmsEU and @ohms 2

Badging character: Bimble on the Union server, Badgehunter.com and City Info Tracker.

Megaforce · 02-11-2009 11:49 AM

so - sounds as if this might all be an uphill struggle - ideally finding a few other people that could leave an alt they dont use on the task force and brought in for clicking glowies etc might be worth finding.

I am sure there are lots of other players out there in the same situation.

Judgement_Dave · 02-11-2009 12:56 PM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
So if 8 people start the Positron TF...
* it scales for 8 at the start
* if 2 people dc/logoff it scales down to 6
* if 2 people then quit (Or are kicked) it now scales for 4, even though only 4 are logged in
* if the 4 people left all quit, then the 2 who logged come back, it will be scaled for 3
* if one of the remaining duo quits, then it is scaled for 3 still

[/ QUOTE ]

Fixed it for you

[/ QUOTE ]
Not if Suzumebachi (the post above yours) is correct you didn't!

People still count to the team when logged off/dc'd so it looks to me like it should be:
if 8 people start the Positron TF...
* it scales for 8 at the start
* if 2 people dc/logoff it stays at 8 (as logoffs are still part of the team)
* if 2 people then quit (Or are kicked) it now scales for 6, even though only 4 are logged in
* if the 4 people logged in all quit, then the 2 who logged out come back, it will be scaled for 2
* if one of the remaining duo quits, then it is scaled for just 1

Good to see it wasn't just me getting slightly confused at what the final position was... guess that happens when several changes are made in quick succession.

BTW - Thanks Suzumebachi for posting the correct info - I did admit my (mis)information was iirc/what I thought was the settled position.

It was all from a hazy, relatively unused part of my memory as it's rare that many people drop from a TF that I'm on and most of them (other than the dreaded Positron) are usually started with 8 people on the team.

By my mohawk shall ye know me!
my toons
Funny: Ee-Ai-Ee-Ai-Oh! #3662 * The foul-mouthed Handyman! #1076 * City of Norms #132944
Serious: To Save A Single World (#83744) * Marketing Opportunity (#83747)

Megaforce · 02-11-2009 01:00 PM

So how often do people start trials and TF's and have people drop out - as some of them look like they take a lot of commitment to finish.

TrueMetal · 02-11-2009 01:09 PM

[ QUOTE ]
So how often do people start trials and TF's and have people drop out - as some of them look like they take a lot of commitment to finish.

[/ QUOTE ]

It happens more often than I'd like I once started a Lady Grey TF (with 8 people needed to start) and finished it with 4. 2 people "dced" and 2 used ouroborous, we were on a mixed team, so they got autokicked from the TF. It was one of the most fun TF's I ever did to be honest.

@True Metal
Co-leader of Callous Crew SG. Based on Union server.

Col_Blitzkrieger · 02-11-2009 01:16 PM

Correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't they make it so TFs/SFs never scale below minimum team size anymore? Example, if you start a TF that requires 4 people to start, with 8 people, and 6 quit, it still scales for 4, not 2. No?

Knightly · 02-11-2009 01:27 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't they make it so TFs/SFs never scale below minimum team size anymore? Example, if you start a TF that requires 4 people to start, with 8 people, and 6 quit, it still scales for 4, not 2. No?

[/ QUOTE ]

That's what i was remembering but someone made a quote about it, the changes to TFs devs made last year.

Judgement_Dave · 02-11-2009 01:27 PM

[ QUOTE ]
So how often do people start trials and TF's and have people drop out - as some of them look like they take a lot of commitment to finish.

[/ QUOTE ]
Like anything ingame, it'll vary depending on who you ask.

A fair bit of my recent experience has been with teams found mainly on the channels I mentioned - mainly sals on Union. There you tend to get people who'll:
* do the TF purely for the rewards (well - badge and merits anyway);
* have probably done it before;
* don't mind ghosting/stealthing where possible;
* have a good idea how long it'll usually take (and so won't commit if they don't hav eenough time);
* generally have decent-ish builds.

As such the TFs run with these groups can be fairly quick & everyone knows what they're letting themselves in for - so a very low dropout rate. Usually only the odd one if real-life intervenes or their net connection goes down and doesn't return!

On the other hand, I've also run a lot in the past with PuGs. Here it's reasonably common (or was) to find that the players:
* may never have done the TF (or did it so long ago that they forgot it);
* may have builds that they'll be thinking about resspeccing someday soon;
* may never have done any TF (and don't appreciate auto-exemping and the time commitment).

This can be like running any PuG and expecting them to stay together for anything from 2 to 7 hours... And given that some may not realise that the time commitment may be this long, and that they'll stop earning xp if/when they hit the TF limit, it's inevitable that some people drop out.

It generally helps with PuG groups to make sure that people have an idea how long it may take and also that they understand how the level limits/xp work in TFs...

It's also worth noting that:
* unless you really know what you're letting yourselves in for, TF teams should all set their rep to the normal level (heroic/villainous). TFs set themselves by the leaders rep, so if the leadership changes due to the leader dc'ing the rep of the remaining missions can suddenly change! (and you can't change the team leader in a TF as you can normally).
* The 1st 6 signature hero TFs (Positron, Synapse, Citadel, Sister Psyche, Manticore, Numina) all set the base level of mobs at the top end of the TF level range. So even if the team are all level 10 and they do Positron they'll get mobs as if they were a team of level 15s (with the teamsize and leader rep modifiers).

So if you're not aware of these it's easy to get a scenario similar to a PuG of level 10s going into Positron on the middle rep and then members start quitting when you all realise how hard it is to face mobs of level 16/17 when you're not even in DOs!

BTW - the comments about builds in the above aren't some form of elitism - I wouldn't kick/not pick/criticise anyone for their build but in a true PuG you'll get people stil learning the game and making the mistakes that we all made... these builds obviously don't help a TF go quite as smoothly as 'better' builds would and can lead to more dropouts if the team has poor-enough builds that the TF becomes far too difficult!

By my mohawk shall ye know me!
my toons
Funny: Ee-Ai-Ee-Ai-Oh! #3662 * The foul-mouthed Handyman! #1076 * City of Norms #132944
Serious: To Save A Single World (#83744) * Marketing Opportunity (#83747)

Judgement_Dave · 02-11-2009 01:29 PM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't they make it so TFs/SFs never scale below minimum team size anymore? Example, if you start a TF that requires 4 people to start, with 8 people, and 6 quit, it still scales for 4, not 2. No?

[/ QUOTE ]

That's what i was remembering but someone made a quote about it, the changes to TFs devs made last year.

[/ QUOTE ]
Wow - it does show how confused the devs made us all...

I originally said that I thought it had the minimum size, but Suzumebachi (sp?) posted the quoote and linky to the patch where that was removed.

By my mohawk shall ye know me!
my toons
Funny: Ee-Ai-Ee-Ai-Oh! #3662 * The foul-mouthed Handyman! #1076 * City of Norms #132944
Serious: To Save A Single World (#83744) * Marketing Opportunity (#83747)

TrueMetal · 02-11-2009 01:46 PM

Actually I tend not to use people on Sals as a measure for anything. There're still people on there who insist that EVERYONE on the team should change their reputation to heroic/villainous (or whatever rep they is desired) before they start a TF.
Just to say that there's a lot of misinformation going around.

@True Metal
Co-leader of Callous Crew SG. Based on Union server.

Col_Blitzkrieger · 02-11-2009 01:49 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Actually I tend not to use people on Sals as a measure for anything. There're still people on there who insist that EVERYONE on the team should change their reputation to heroic/villainous (or whatever rep they is desired) before they start a TF.
Just to say that there's a lot of misinformation going around.

[/ QUOTE ]That's mostly for the odd case where the leader disconnects and it promotes someone with Relentless/Invincible as the new leader, from my experience.

Megaforce · 02-11-2009 01:50 PM

so it seems to me that if the norm is for trials and TF's to finish with less than the pre-requisite number of people - why don't they change it so that you can start it solo'd or duo'd - BUT - you get a warning saying

'this mission is intended for larger teams, please be aware the mob size will reflect this'

or something like that?

Crimson_Belt · 02-11-2009 01:58 PM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
So if 8 people start the Positron TF...
* it scales for 8 at the start
* if 2 people dc/logoff it scales down to 6
* if 2 people then quit (Or are kicked) it now scales for 4, even though only 4 are logged in
* if the 4 people left all quit, then the 2 who logged come back, it will be scaled for 3
* if one of the remaining duo quits, then it is scaled for 3 still

[/ QUOTE ]

Fixed it for you

[/ QUOTE ]
Not if Suzumebachi (the post above yours) is correct you didn't!

People still count to the team when logged off/dc'd so it looks to me like it should be:
if 8 people start the Positron TF...
* it scales for 8 at the start
* if 2 people dc/logoff it stays at 8 (as logoffs are still part of the team)
* if 2 people then quit (Or are kicked) it now scales for 6, even though only 4 are logged in
* if the 4 people logged in all quit, then the 2 who logged out come back, it will be scaled for 2
* if one of the remaining duo quits, then it is scaled for just 1

Good to see it wasn't just me getting slightly confused at what the final position was... guess that happens when several changes are made in quick succession.

BTW - Thanks Suzumebachi for posting the correct info - I did admit my (mis)information was iirc/what I thought was the settled position.

It was all from a hazy, relatively unused part of my memory as it's rare that many people drop from a TF that I'm on and most of them (other than the dreaded Positron) are usually started with 8 people on the team.

[/ QUOTE ]

Have they changed the system then? cos i used to happily solo Posi to help friends gain the badge that didnt have time to do the whole thing and that was scaled to 1man mobs for a fact .. and recently (after the Merit system came into play) trying Posi as a duo with a 3rd member logged out was definitely alot harder now than ever before. I know playing a WS doesnt help, but im talking really about mob sizes.

Judgement_Dave · 02-11-2009 02:01 PM

QR

Much as I understand that it's annoying to not have a team and that it's good that pretty much everything is soloable (for most characters, if they build to solo) I do actually like it that there are some tasks that try to promote teaming. Ok - maybe promote isn't quite right.. but at least they demand teaming.

BTW - in your OP you said:
[ QUOTE ]

oh - and before you say - well just invite more people to the mission - well - we cant guarantee time towards doing it as we dont play every evening - and sometimes only for 30 minutes at a go - and it would be unfair to have a third party waiting around for days on end just to finish the trial / taskforce.

[/ QUOTE ]
Do you all have alts? If so, have you considered seeing if you could set aside a regular hour or so once per week maybe?

If you could, you could try posting on the server-faction-forum (e.g. for Union Heroes) asking if anyone is interested playing a TF as something like 1 hr every saturday afternoon (for example).

I've seen threads in the past organising things like a TF done for 2 or 3 hours on Saturday and then continuing on the Sunday... You might get some response and if not, asking won't hurt.

BTW - you'd need alts to play different characters if you wanted to play in between organised TF sessions, as once on the tF your characters remain on it until it's completed or you quit. And whilst in a TF you cannot do your other missions or talk to your other, non-TF, contacts.

By my mohawk shall ye know me!
my toons
Funny: Ee-Ai-Ee-Ai-Oh! #3662 * The foul-mouthed Handyman! #1076 * City of Norms #132944
Serious: To Save A Single World (#83744) * Marketing Opportunity (#83747)

TrueMetal · 02-11-2009 02:30 PM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Actually I tend not to use people on Sals as a measure for anything. There're still people on there who insist that EVERYONE on the team should change their reputation to heroic/villainous (or whatever rep they is desired) before they start a TF.
Just to say that there's a lot of misinformation going around.

[/ QUOTE ]That's mostly for the odd case where the leader disconnects and it promotes someone with Relentless/Invincible as the new leader, from my experience.

[/ QUOTE ]

No, this case was actually because most people on the team (5 out of 8, including the leader) thought it would set on relentless if most of us kept our rep at relentless ...

And even if it is to counter disconnects, it's still not worth making a big fuss over as I've seen some people do, as your rep won't change mid mission and you can change it between missions.

@True Metal
Co-leader of Callous Crew SG. Based on Union server.

Megaforce · 02-11-2009 02:42 PM

[ QUOTE ]

Do you all have alts? If so, have you considered seeing if you could set aside a regular hour or so once per week maybe?

If you could, you could try posting on the server-faction-forum (e.g. for Union Heroes) asking if anyone is interested playing a TF as something like 1 hr every saturday afternoon (for example).

I've seen threads in the past organising things like a TF done for 2 or 3 hours on Saturday and then continuing on the Sunday... You might get some response and if not, asking won't hurt.

[/ QUOTE ]

unfortunately i cant even guarantee a set time on a set day, real life and a 2 year old tend to get in the way - so our playing at the moment is very ad hoc