Some Random Thoughts on the Levelling Pact
By
Archie Gremlin,
Posted on: 2009-01-15 13:22 in CoH and CoV General Discussions
As my wife and I always team we've found the LP very nice. If she gets a little time in an afternoon to play when I'm at work my alt keeps up and we can play together again in the evening with the alts in line. I suspect this is more the way it was intended, but your points are interesting.
I can't really see how a pause or a split of the XP would work, after all the two alts are LPed to stay in line. Change the split of XP and you no longer stay in line, which kind of negates the LP altogether.
Allowing them at a higher level would be great and I'm hoping this gets put in because theres a load of alt we'll probably not play now as they aren't LPed.
As for when person gives up and deletes perhaps their LP could be given some of their XP. Not sure how that would work, perhaps just enough to level twice or a percentage. That way although they loose their LP they gain something. Problem is I suspect it's open to abuse. If you delete maybe they'll just be happy as they'll get all their own XP now 
[ QUOTE ]
I love the concept of the pact and I don't actually think it was aimed too much at players like me, so I don't want this to be taken as "massive whinge."
[/ QUOTE ]
I think the biggest problem is that, currently, it isn't really aimed at all at people playing as you describe.
It seems to be aimed at people who intend to play together 90% of the time - with the pact really just helping stop one of them falling behind if they can't make a single session.
[ QUOTE ]
I think where the pact system works best is for the new(ish) player who has joined with a friend and they can explore the game together, and see some quick progress as a team. And of course it reinforces the classic comicbook thing of the Leader & Sidekick, by introducing the great comicbook Duo. Power Man & Iron Fist, Hellboy & Abe Sapien, Cable & Deadpool, Hank Pym & Janet van Dyne.
[/ QUOTE ]
I don't really see it this way - as if you join with a friend and duo with that friend then you don't see any benefit, until one party can't make a session.
[ QUOTE ]
I actually think it can be vastly improved by doing 2 things: Adding a "Pause" Button - so if one player isn't playing the other can pause the pact - or even choose the level of XP share when not on at the same time. There are other options too... but I'd like to see a little more control given back to the players themselves.
[/ QUOTE ]
But pausing the pact is almost totally against the whole basis of a pact being there to keep too players at the same level... if you are playing a lot more than your buddy, why pause the pact - cancel it and SK them when they can play!
[ QUOTE ]
Also enable Pacts to be formed at higher level. It's unfair (especially for less experienced players) to expect them to form pacts and not know what their alt is going to play like in 10 levels time. Sure if one person deletes the alt the other still has theirs, but that kind of negates the entire concept of Pacts.
[/ QUOTE ]
IIRC the 2-player pact started at or below level 5 is the devs initial (and fairly easy to monitor) test of pacts.
There was mention made of extending it to pacts between three or more characters and also of allowing pacts to be started at higher levels.
Obviously if pacts had some exploit then just throwing them out at any level and between any number of people could cause a big problem before it was rectified! So instead the devs made them available for 2 characters starting as lowbies. Hopefully, if the pacts are deemed a success, then they may extend them - which may make them a lot more useful to more players.
By my mohawk shall ye know me!
my toons
Funny: Ee-Ai-Ee-Ai-Oh! #3662 * The foul-mouthed Handyman! #1076 * City of Norms #132944
Serious: To Save A Single World (#83744) * Marketing Opportunity (#83747)
[ QUOTE ]
As for when person gives up and deletes perhaps their LP could be given some of their XP. Not sure how that would work, perhaps just enough to level twice or a percentage. That way although they loose their LP they gain something. Problem is I suspect it's open to abuse. If you delete maybe they'll just be happy as they'll get all their own XP now
[/ QUOTE ]
Sounds way too easy to abuse to PL characters using a 2nd account.
i.e. you want character X PL'd - so I create character Y on my account. XP pact X and Y and get them into missions both earning xp - meaning that both earn effectively normal levels of xp.
Sometime later, I delete my toon Y and your character X (which has earnt normal xp up til now as we've both been playing/teamed) gets a percentage of character Ys xp???? Effectively we've engineered it so that you earn xp above normal rate in the mid-long term.
By my mohawk shall ye know me!
my toons
Funny: Ee-Ai-Ee-Ai-Oh! #3662 * The foul-mouthed Handyman! #1076 * City of Norms #132944
Serious: To Save A Single World (#83744) * Marketing Opportunity (#83747)
QR:
I can hear you, Scarlet. This is why i never thought about pact. I delete my most characters between level range 12-30. That only alone give me a cold feet on pacts (also SG idea).
So for now, CoH with leveling pact or not makes no difference for me but i know there are some people who loves it.
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
As for when person gives up and deletes perhaps their LP could be given some of their XP. Not sure how that would work, perhaps just enough to level twice or a percentage. That way although they loose their LP they gain something. Problem is I suspect it's open to abuse. If you delete maybe they'll just be happy as they'll get all their own XP now
[/ QUOTE ]
Sounds way too easy to abuse to PL characters using a 2nd account.
i.e. you want character X PL'd - so I create character Y on my account. XP pact X and Y and get them into missions both earning xp - meaning that both earn effectively normal levels of xp.
Sometime later, I delete my toon Y and your character X (which has earnt normal xp up til now as we've both been playing/teamed) gets a percentage of character Ys xp???? Effectively we've engineered it so that you earn xp above normal rate in the mid-long term.
[/ QUOTE ]
I did think of a similar thing myself - but as Dave has pointed out - it's a VERY easy exploit.
Thelonious Monk
Leveling pact is optional, made for those who like to lvl together, stay together, like batman and robin. Sideway altoholics get a slight easier chance of getting more lvls done in less time (offline xp thingie).
But, lik with the dual build option, it is not for everyone. Dual build is [censored] for me, i cant affort a entire new set of IO's for my toon, likewise you are not the 'right' person for the lvl pact.
I had a pact with a troller, who decided to stop at lvl24. Bad? No, at least i had a enjoyable time in those 24, sure i could have been higher if i started solo, but thats the risk of the pact.
I think this setup is thought up very very carefully to counter the majority of possible exploits. The only way is now to PL 1 of the pact from 1 to 50, without any chance of 'swapping' or timeouts. Make it more open, creates alot opportunities to PL etc.
(nevertheless, you still can get 2 lvl50s in a noticable shorter time then to PL just 1, by swapping them and proper use of the patron exp).
Again, its 100% optional. Like dual builds, PvP, zombie-IO slotting, ourobos system or farming. It might not suite you, but they made it on a correct way to please the masses.
50)Sinergy X/(50)Mika.
(50)MaceX/(50)Encore
Sign the petition, dont let CoH go down! SIGN!
[ QUOTE ]
I think this setup is thought up very very carefully to counter the majority of possible exploits. The only way is now to PL 1 of the pact from 1 to 50, without any chance of 'swapping' or timeouts. Make it more open, creates alot opportunities to PL etc.
(nevertheless, you still can get 2 lvl50s in a noticable shorter time then to PL just 1, by swapping them and proper use of the patron exp).
[/ QUOTE ]
As you say yourself it isn't an exploit - if you're going to PL characters then PLing both characters seperately should take just as long or less time than PLing one half of a pact.
Don't think I've heard anyone come up with a true game exploit involving xp pacts. Of course, one half of the pact could exploit the other half by never turining up and getting free xp - but that's not a game exploit.
By my mohawk shall ye know me!
my toons
Funny: Ee-Ai-Ee-Ai-Oh! #3662 * The foul-mouthed Handyman! #1076 * City of Norms #132944
Serious: To Save A Single World (#83744) * Marketing Opportunity (#83747)
I recently started a new fire/rad troller team and we all XP pacted. As it goes I think it's good for two reasons:
1. We can keep playing madly and noone falls behind. Sure, we could SK the poor guy or let him/her PL for a while, but the team would suffer.
2. It keeps people in the team and playing. Sure We seem to have formed a really good team, but it feels like everyone is taking responsibility for the whole team, not just ones own XP, it keeps us playing with us even if the second build allows us to go on wild solo streaks or spend the time in-between in other teams.
The XP lag is rather annoying, I keep ding'in when leaving missions which is sort of a waste of good insps and no way of level-up-rezzing. Also, it's a potential Goldmine for levelling services.
I've tried two dom's pacted with two MMs on my accounts, playing the MMs together getting (almost) all the story arcs due to slower levelling. I guess you could maximize "profit" by using as much patrol xp as possible, but the most scary part is using two great builds to level up two fun-at-fifty alts. My MMs are not optimized to benefit from each other though, so I don't feel like I'm cheating.
I've seen more Grandville/RWZ/Ouro PLing lately and I'm rather sure it's people PLing one account with another account pacted. With two accounts you can use the main account über alt to pl the second account new alt that is pacted with the main account new alt etc.
So what's my point: I like it as a team support feature, but it's not really necessary, not that useful and exploitable, but...
...what's the point in getting another bunch of 50s you haven't played that has no inf, no enhs, nothing when your character slots are already filled and you're forced to buy new or delete old nostalgic "haven't been played for 2 years" alts? I hope it was easily programmed (and they EXTREME xp lag is fixed soon without taking energy and focus from other development)
[ QUOTE ]
I've not felt like I've got anything like the best out of it.
That's clearly partly a lot to do with the my own playstyle, as well as the style of those I pact with...
[/ QUOTE ]
As other's have said, the levelling pact works like a charm if you play with your pact buddy at least 90% of the time. It also works well if you either play with your pact buddy or solo. Neither of these situations fit your play style so perhaps pacts aren't for you.
[ QUOTE ]
I actually think it can be vastly improved by doing 2 things: Adding a "Pause" Button - so if one player isn't playing the other can pause the pact - or even choose the level of XP share when not on at the same time.
[/ QUOTE ]
My first thought was that this is crazy. After all, the point of a pact is to keep two toons in sync. On second thoughts though, what if we changed the pact so that the toons just have to remain within a certain number of levels of each other. (Say 5)
The game could then let the player decide to split their XP normally, keep all their XP or send all their XP to their pact buddies. The setting would be overridden automatically if one pact member gets too far ahead.
This would solve the PUG levelling problem. You could join the team, change the pact setting to "keep all XP" and play with the team. When the team splits up you'll be 3 or 4 levels ahead of your pact mate. At this point, you change your setting to "give all XP to the pact" and go and solo for a while.
The system could also direct all pact XP to the lowest level member whenever both pact members are in the same team. The same thing would happen if the active player gets too far ahead.
This would give you the best of both worlds.
[ QUOTE ]
Also enable Pacts to be formed at higher level.
[/ QUOTE ]
As others have said, this will probably happen. It should make it easier for you to abandon one toon and level up another to take it's place in the pact.
The devs have also said that they intend to expand pacts to more people.
Well it's been out for a bit and I've got to say that although I love the idea conceptually, I've not felt like I've got anything like the best out of it.
That's clearly partly a lot to do with the my own playstyle, as well as the style of those I pact with, but I also feel the Pact is trying to be a "one-size fits all" solution to a problem that exists largely in perception, more than reality, and I've discovered some serious limitations to it.
One of my biggest bugbears with it is simply this: I don't know how much I'm going to like a toon until I've given it some serious field testing. That's not just about the power sets - after close on 3 years, I know what most of the sets play like but it's the concept and the "feel" of the character. As an inveterate altoholic, I regularly delete toons in their 20s and I try hard not to make a judgement until a toon's made at least 15 levels. In my mind it's very hard to judge the value of a toon until it has a travel power.
But in a levelling pact, if I decide I hate a toon by level 15, my pact buddy might feel slightly aggrieved if I suddenly announce I'm breaking the pact or deleting the toon (or maybe even worse, not playing it for an extended period while I cogitate over it's longevity.) That kind of leaves my buddy's alt in CoXLimbo. Do they then play their alt (which they might like a lot) in the hope that gaining me 3 or 4 levels will change my perception? Do they stop playing their toon for a while, despite the fact they like it a lot?
Another issue I've noticed is this: I am fortunate I probably get more hours to play than most, so when I'm playing a toon and teaming consistently and my pact buddy isn't, I find the team I'm with is escaping me.
Play for an evening on a relative lowbie and if things go well, you can gain three or 4 levels, sometimes more. But, if my Pact Buddy's not able to join in, then do that over the course of 2 evenings, and suddenly instead of being a valued member of a team that's racing through missions, you're limping behind, needing teleports, more heals and soon, an SK, since the team are generally outlevelling you. I admit the problem is possibly partly psychological - I pride myself on playing as a team member and pulling my weight - and if I don't feel like I'm able, it affects the playing experience for me.
As I've already pointed out, I've got a large streak of altaholism in me - and I quite often like to change toons over the course of an evening. But, supposing my Pact Buddy's on a roll? It's easy to feel obliged to remain on the toon than suddenly halve their XP/min, which leads to sitting there feeling bored.
I love the concept of the pact and I don't actually think it was aimed too much at players like me, so I don't want this to be taken as "massive whinge." I think where the pact system works best is for the new(ish) player who has joined with a friend and they can explore the game together, and see some quick progress as a team. And of course it reinforces the classic comicbook thing of the Leader & Sidekick, by introducing the great comicbook Duo. Power Man & Iron Fist, Hellboy & Abe Sapien, Cable & Deadpool, Hank Pym & Janet van Dyne.
How to make it more accessible then?
I actually think it can be vastly improved by doing 2 things: Adding a "Pause" Button - so if one player isn't playing the other can pause the pact - or even choose the level of XP share when not on at the same time. There are other options too... but I'd like to see a little more control given back to the players themselves.
Also enable Pacts to be formed at higher level. It's unfair (especially for less experienced players) to expect them to form pacts and not know what their alt is going to play like in 10 levels time. Sure if one person deletes the alt the other still has theirs, but that kind of negates the entire concept of Pacts.
I'd love to know what you guys thing too
Thelonious Monk