2 Things need sorting for Halloween Event 2009

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Yea plus its probably that great friend of ours - time. Whilst Italians still exist, those that have any connection to the witch hunts are now gone (well kind of my research into the subject for uni found some pretty frightening contempory stories). I'm sure if I picked a modern female serial killer instead of Elizabeth Bathory I'd probably have been generic'd. Same if someone made a Hitler toon, and 5th Columists got their change due to it being too soon and could cause offence.

The witch hunts however are centuries old altho thousands across Europe lost their lives, I don't think it impacts us as much as something like the holocaust.

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The "happened a long time ago" angle doesn't really hold up - a crime is a crime, no matter when it happened - it doesn't become less evil as time passes.

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*shrugs*

Depends if it can be called a crime or not, I mean after all slaying a few heretics to force the community tighter together could be seen as something of a necessity in times of strife.

Just because we're all enlightened and stuff these day's doesn't mean we can judge the actions of our ancestors from today's comfortable living standards.

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The murder of innocent people can be judged as a crime, no matter what time you're viewing it from - it doesn't matter how comfortable times are now - innocent is innocent.

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Yea plus its probably that great friend of ours - time. Whilst Italians still exist, those that have any connection to the witch hunts are now gone (well kind of my research into the subject for uni found some pretty frightening contempory stories). I'm sure if I picked a modern female serial killer instead of Elizabeth Bathory I'd probably have been generic'd. Same if someone made a Hitler toon, and 5th Columists got their change due to it being too soon and could cause offence.

The witch hunts however are centuries old altho thousands across Europe lost their lives, I don't think it impacts us as much as something like the holocaust.

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The "happened a long time ago" angle doesn't really hold up - a crime is a crime, no matter when it happened - it doesn't become less evil as time passes.

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*shrugs*

Depends if it can be called a crime or not, I mean after all slaying a few heretics to force the community tighter together could be seen as something of a necessity in times of strife.

Just because we're all enlightened and stuff these day's doesn't mean we can judge the actions of our ancestors from today's comfortable living standards.

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The murder of innocent people can be judged as a crime, no matter what time you're viewing it from - it doesn't matter how comfortable times are now - innocent is innocent.

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All was been a believer in the needs of the many against the needs of the few. Is it really a crime to kill one person so thirty more can survive?


Edit: Particularly as said person was some how acting against the interests of the community, hence them being a target to be singled out.

But they were innocent - they weren't doing anything against anyone, so they wern't acting against the interests of any community.

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But they were innocent - they weren't doing anything against anyone, so they wern't acting against the interests of any community.

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Then why were they singled out?

They may have been innocent of making deals with the devil, but they were doing something to upset the balance of the community thus drawing down attention on themselves.

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Yea plus its probably that great friend of ours - time. Whilst Italians still exist, those that have any connection to the witch hunts are now gone (well kind of my research into the subject for uni found some pretty frightening contempory stories). I'm sure if I picked a modern female serial killer instead of Elizabeth Bathory I'd probably have been generic'd. Same if someone made a Hitler toon, and 5th Columists got their change due to it being too soon and could cause offence.

The witch hunts however are centuries old altho thousands across Europe lost their lives, I don't think it impacts us as much as something like the holocaust.

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The "happened a long time ago" angle doesn't really hold up - a crime is a crime, no matter when it happened - it doesn't become less evil as time passes.

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Nope but there's less chance of offending, more people would be offended by Nazi's than witch hunters...a game like WAR for instance gives the player a chance to play a witch hunter. People aren't going to turn around and say "but my ancestor was killed by a witch hunter...I'm offended". Perspective is needed, as said earlier we're enlightened and not willing to believe anything just cos it has the words 'God and 'Satan' in it. At the time people were god fearing and believed anything the church told them. This doesn't excuse their actions, but if we look deeper into things then most groups/badges could ahve the chance of offending. A catholic could turn around and say having enhancements named after Crowley is 'horrific'

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But they were innocent - they weren't doing anything against anyone, so they wern't acting against the interests of any community.

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Then why were they singled out?

They may have been innocent of making deals with the devil, but they were doing something to upset the balance of the community thus drawing down attention on themselves.

[/ QUOTE ]It was superstitious people looking for someone to blame for natural problems - like failed crops, illness or general misfortune.
It makes them feel less helpless if they can blame it on "agents of evil" rather than the general flow of life and random events - blame and retribution makes powerless people seem powerful and more in control.

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But they were innocent - they weren't doing anything against anyone, so they wern't acting against the interests of any community.

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Then why were they singled out?

They may have been innocent of making deals with the devil, but they were doing something to upset the balance of the community thus drawing down attention on themselves.

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Such as simply moving villages into a new community. One bad harvest later - oh that'll be that little hold woman who moved in - WITCH!

I remember one source recorded an event where a woman was nursing another woman after she'd fallen ill, she was seen moving at night collecting medicine/tending to her own family and a few days later the ill woman died...the woman trying to cure her was blamed!

Another one I read was a family scrobbling over inheritance and the children accused their parents of being witches and let them be tortured just for abit of money and land.

Lets not forget there were white witches too who would bless the land...we don't attack those when ToT'ing

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Yea plus its probably that great friend of ours - time. Whilst Italians still exist, those that have any connection to the witch hunts are now gone (well kind of my research into the subject for uni found some pretty frightening contempory stories). I'm sure if I picked a modern female serial killer instead of Elizabeth Bathory I'd probably have been generic'd. Same if someone made a Hitler toon, and 5th Columists got their change due to it being too soon and could cause offence.

The witch hunts however are centuries old altho thousands across Europe lost their lives, I don't think it impacts us as much as something like the holocaust.

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The "happened a long time ago" angle doesn't really hold up - a crime is a crime, no matter when it happened - it doesn't become less evil as time passes.

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Nope but there's less chance of offending, more people would be offended by Nazi's than witch hunters...a game like WAR for instance gives the player a chance to play a witch hunter. People aren't going to turn around and say "but my ancestor was killed by a witch hunter...I'm offended". Perspective is needed, as said earlier we're enlightened and not willing to believe anything just cos it has the words 'God and 'Satan' in it. At the time people were god fearing and believed anything the church told them. This doesn't excuse their actions, but if we look deeper into things then most groups/badges could ahve the chance of offending. A catholic could turn around and say having enhancements named after Crowley is 'horrific'

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Having something named after a crazy "black magician" isn't really the same as having something named after a book that encouraged centuries of mass murder against half the population of Europe.

The book didn't cause anyone to die, as far as I'm aware a book is unable to wield any form of lethal weapon. As always people kill other people, this would happen no matter what.

It can....if you load it into a Rock-It launcher first, then fired at such a velocity the book gains the capacity to kill (yes too much Fallout 3...).

The book didn't encourage anything, infact it was more a documentation as to how the Catholic church and to that extent people, at the time, were operating and thinking. There was witch burnings centuries before the book was released, still on large scales.

Even if the book hadn't been written, the same things would have happened, we would just be lacking an insight into unenlightened times when we thought the earth was the center of the very universe itself and the idea that maybe a singular all powerful deity was the cause of every single thing that happened in your life, ever (Dog got run over by a wagon, that'd be a test from the Almighty herself not random occurance which happened because you went with choosing a very stupid dog instead of a much smarter Cat who would have avoided said cart)!

That's still no excuse - the book helped spread and increase the hatred and fear of women, and it has no place as a badge title, especially for Heroes.

so don't use it then

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Yea plus its probably that great friend of ours - time. Whilst Italians still exist, those that have any connection to the witch hunts are now gone (well kind of my research into the subject for uni found some pretty frightening contempory stories). I'm sure if I picked a modern female serial killer instead of Elizabeth Bathory I'd probably have been generic'd. Same if someone made a Hitler toon, and 5th Columists got their change due to it being too soon and could cause offence.

The witch hunts however are centuries old altho thousands across Europe lost their lives, I don't think it impacts us as much as something like the holocaust.

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The "happened a long time ago" angle doesn't really hold up - a crime is a crime, no matter when it happened - it doesn't become less evil as time passes.

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Nope but there's less chance of offending, more people would be offended by Nazi's than witch hunters...a game like WAR for instance gives the player a chance to play a witch hunter. People aren't going to turn around and say "but my ancestor was killed by a witch hunter...I'm offended". Perspective is needed, as said earlier we're enlightened and not willing to believe anything just cos it has the words 'God and 'Satan' in it. At the time people were god fearing and believed anything the church told them. This doesn't excuse their actions, but if we look deeper into things then most groups/badges could ahve the chance of offending. A catholic could turn around and say having enhancements named after Crowley is 'horrific'

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Having something named after a crazy "black magician" isn't really the same as having something named after a book that encouraged centuries of mass murder against half the population of Europe.

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Half the population of Europe were burnt as witches?

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The book didn't cause anyone to die, as far as I'm aware a book is unable to wield any form of lethal weapon. As always people kill other people, this would happen no matter what.

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Books dont kill people, madmen do?

My points been proven, as I said people could take offence at an enhancement named after a satanist...different dtrokes for different folks

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so don't use it then

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^ This. If it really bugs you THAT much, simply dont use it. As has always been the case with the game.

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Originally Posted by Zwillinger GG, I would tell you that "I am killing you with my mind", but I couldn't find an emoticon to properly express my sentiment.

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Originally Posted by Captain_Photon NOTE: The Incarnate System is basically farming for IOs on a larger scale, and with more obtrusive lore.

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Half the population of Europe were burnt as witches?

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No, I mean targeting females is targeting half of a population.

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The book didn't cause anyone to die, as far as I'm aware a book is unable to wield any form of lethal weapon. As always people kill other people, this would happen no matter what.

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Books dont kill people, madmen do?

My points been proven, as I said people could take offence at an enhancement named after a satanist...different dtrokes for different folks

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It hasn't been proven at all - there's no comparison between something named after after a crazy fraud and something named after a manual for gender based persecution and murder.
The book heightened and reinforced evil beliefs about women, and lead to thousands of deaths - it's wrong to use it as a badge title, especially for Heroes.

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so don't use it then

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^ This. If it really bugs you THAT much, simply dont use it. As has always been the case with the game.

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I don't - I don't use any badge titles at all - but the very fact that there's a badge called that is unpleasant.
There's an ancient Roman zone now - plenty of places to add Latin badge titles, without linking them to witches, and real life killings.
Just switch "Malleus" to Cimerora, and make it for defeating something like 50 of Romulus' EBs, and make the Halloween witch badge something suitably neutral like "Dispeller" or "Disenchanted"