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I have a fairly simple question:
Is there any real way for a scrapper to make a decent contribution to an ITF run on INV. We are talking in a normal team with no dedicated(for the scrapper) healer and buffer
Considering how badly mullered the regen got on a run I did on Tueday, I would be included to say no.
What do the rest of you think?
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If the defender has Vengeance...
Edit: more seriously speaking, a scrapper does damage, crits can go through resistances... I don't see why you wouldn't contribute. How much you contribute comes pretty much down to your skill and the skill of your team (so if you're not playing on Union, you're just out of luck, but I heard the server transfers are cheap)
Damnit, can't keep my advise serious today.
Aaanyways, I really think any character can contribute on pretty much any team. The whole "we need an X to be able to do this" is a big fat lie if the people in the tenm know what they're doing.
Can't really speak for regens on ITF as I've been doing them with pretty much just Willpower or SR scrappers aboard. But in my opinion they've at least been great in dealing damage to the bosses and EBs and have been able to stay alive quite well (or provide much-needed Vengeance for the rest of the team). I guess regen might have more problems if they happen to be in the middle of an ambush when one spawns and have to deal with surprise alpha strikes..
Parting words: Just be careful and don't try to be a tanker (if it seems you are vulnerable like you described) and you'll be a valuable asset to the team.
[b][color=blue]Coldest War /[color=red]/ Omega Patient[/b]
[url="http://www.the-cow.net/"][color=red]The CoW Network (Blog) /[/url][url="http://www.collegeofwar.com/"][color=blue]/ College of War[/url]
I have to say yes. I've done the ITF several times on my BS/Invuln and done quite well. Admittedly she can get a bit of a pasting if she's not careful and it involves liberal use of parry (auto'd so whenever I change mobs it fires) but I've even done one run where I was 'tank' and although I had thermal buffs I did alright. I can see why a Regen could suffer badly though. This is despite the def-debuff the romans do. Without Parry I really wouldn't last long!
Defiant 50's
Many and varied!
@Miss Chief
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Is there any real way for a scrapper to make a decent contribution to an ITF run on INV. We are talking in a normal team with no dedicated(for the scrapper) healer and buffer
[/ QUOTE ]Just like in any other team, yes.
However, why on earth are you running the ITF on Inv? (Unless it's for the challenge)
I'm not saying it can't be done.
I've done quite a few ITFs recently (who hasn't) some on my main DM/DA/BM and he gets on fine even on an INV run (OG works if it hits reguarless of mob level) The rest have been on my blaster who is a willing nova -> vengence -> res bot.
I was mainly thinking that the shear weight of S/L damage and the debuffs would leave a lot of combos in trouble far more oftern than would be useful.
I'm sure it would be a very painful experience for a regen scrapper who couldn't control their aggro, just based on how badly my Fire/Fire Brute got mauled with his low resists (despite having fast-recharge heal) and high aggro area attacks, but then his team didn't have a dedicated Tanker (I was sharing duties with another non-stone brute, with a PB using dwarf for the tougher stuff, iirc - though I did manage to tank Rom ok with the help of some Lucks - didn't have much choice as he just wouldn't leave me alone once I started wailing on him - a common problem I've had as a Fire/Fire). On the flipside my Em/Elec was fine - probably because he didn't take as much aggro (mainly single target, no DoTs), had slightly higher S/L resists (but a less reliable heal in Aid Self), and most importantly his team had a Granite Tanker.
If you have a Tanker who is good at holding multiple-mob aggro (i.e. not /WP), stick close to him and/or don't aggro more than you can handle, don't try to beat the tank into a spawn (or, god forbid, try to solo a spawn like some scrappers try), and then I think a regen might do ok. But I have seen a few over-eager scrappers on my ITF teams, with various secondaries, who just leapt from one defeat to another because they just couldn't adapt from their usual gung-ho scrapperlock playstyle to a more stalker-like cautious approach.
Bosses/EBs might suck for a regen if/when you get their attention though (and some spawns in ITF are all EBs/bosses) - regen may not be able to out-heal that immense damage if you hang about, but if your primary kills fast or has some mitigation you might be ok (just be aware that Roman bosses are highly control-resistant - you can't reliably bounce them with AirSup/Focus or fear them with ToF or stun them if you're MA). Or only target what the Tanker targets and kill that.
You just have to bear in mind that those Romans hit very hard (harder than Warriors, or Rikti with swords, even) and treat them accordingly, with large amounts of respect.
And you just reminded me that my scrapper is one of my few L50s I haven't done the ITF with yet - but he's Claw/WP so I'm unlikely to steal more aggro than I can handle and big spawns are where he's most survivable.
I guess any decently built scrapper should do fine on ITF imo. The contribution to the team depends mainly on the player, I've done too many TF's with soloers who go their own way no matter which toon they are using (although I have to admit they're far worse players when on a scrapper).
We did an all scrapper ITF a while ago and it was A LOT of fun, completed it in 1:42. Keeping 8 cysts untouched on second mish and killing all at same time for a massive ambush was hilarious and I think the rep was Invincible (if i recall correctly, could be wrong though).
Personally, when doing ITF myself on a scrapper, /DA is the best by far imo (heck, even tanked Romulus on last mish with my DM/DA), have tried it on /DA, /SR and /WP, still to try it with my /Inv.
Not done it on any of my characters yet, but my scrapper would be the 1st pick from me to do it. When I can get some time to actually dedicate that is. 
Then I will report back. 
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We did an all scrapper ITF a while ago and it was A LOT of fun, completed it in 1:42. Keeping 8 cysts untouched on second mish and killing all at same time for a massive ambush was hilarious and I think the rep was Invincible (if i recall correctly, could be wrong though).
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I think it was Night. And yes, it was an absolute giggle
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Personally, when doing ITF myself on a scrapper, /DA is the best by far imo (heck, even tanked Romulus on last mish with my DM/DA), have tried it on /DA, /SR and /WP, still to try it with my /Inv.
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DA certainly has the best all-round resists of any scrapper set (until they get Electric anyway, and that lacks a superb heal like DA, plus doesn't have as good negative resists for the Nictus as DA), but I'm surprised you didn't find /WP just as good if not better considering how good RTTC is in a crowd (and how low aggro it is). Invul will probably be the best though - Invincibility thrives in big spawns and most ITF damage is S/L (albeit with a fair bit of negative energy and some fire too).
I think the OPs point about Regen is that it's a powerset that really doesn't scale that well as spawns get bigger - a Regen's ability to mitigate damage stays the same, even though incoming damage increases drastically in bigger spawns (compared to resists & defence that apply to every incoming attack regardless of how many, or /WP's regen that scales up as spawns get bigger) - hence Regens being so weak to alpha strikes and spike damage when MoG isn't up.
It wasn't bad with WP either, specially being Spines/WP as well as it wasn't bad at all with DM/SR soft capped, but i still rate my DM/DA the best to my experience. Looking forward on my Kat/Inv, done it on my Inv tank and it was a breeze so I guess /inv should do fine, pity he's Katana though but hey ho.-
Have done it with only my BS/SR.,............ she rocked. Good ST DPS, able to 1 or 2 hit surgeons while ignoring incoming attacks and quite capable of soloing the cysts
"Well, they found my diary today.
They were appropriately appalled
at the discovery of the eight victims
They're now putting it all together.
Women wrapped in silk
with one leg missing
Eight legs, one body, silk,
spider, brilliant!"
Scrapper version of Sapphic Neko holds her own pretty well. Sure i get spanked now and then, and i'm not as tough as Sapphic Neko the brute. But i am two shotting most minions and i can take down bosses and elites at a pretty decent rate.
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Sure i get spanked now and then
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*thinks about that for a moment*
Chairman of the Charity of Pain; accepting donations of blood and guts.
Prophet of the Creamy Truth; "If it's empty, fill it with cream."
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Sure i get spanked now and then
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*thinks about that for a moment*
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*Joins Khorak in a quite moment of contemplation*
I've done several ITF's so far, on my Fire/Regen Scrapper who hasn't hit level 50 yet, and yes, I tend to die more than the rest of the team, but honestly I don't care. I have one AoE attack but that single AoE attacks deals such an insane amount of damage when we're fighting one group of Traitors that it makes me wonder why Scrappers would suck here. And what if they're more single target oriented (Dark Melee, for example)? They can pick off the bosses. Yay.
So honestly, I don't see why Scrappers would be no good in ITF.
I'm not talking standard ITF, more just for INV runs.
Both my scrappers being /DA as above, I can take the pain, hold the rom's nictus pets all day.
But I always get the felling I doing more with a blaster, especially when you get towards the high end organised teams competing for lowest time/highest inf.
I guess we're back to the I don't want X for my run, you'll slow us down kind of thing.
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especially when you get towards the high end organised teams competing for lowest time/highest inf
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Lowest time/highest inf teams on Invincible rep?
Anyway, I guess it is towards team composition, the kill all nictus from range strategy on last mish needs heavy ranged damage, hence blasters are most useful there, but I think a heavy blaster team will suffer on previous mishes, specially on Invincible rep while a heavy scrapper team should breeze through the whole TF, Invincible or not and on last AV they'll have to dogpile rommie 4 times which takes longer than the ranged strategy but probably they have saved more time while on previous mishes.
First ITF I did was on my Claws/Regen and can't remember being defeated at all. If I did die, then it would have been either during the robot guarded computer part, after lagg hill... or at the very end against Romulus. However, that said I'm almost 95% convinced of no defeats, but think that it was run on either Heroic or the next level up. For my defence, I would also point out that the tank was good at holding aggro... so just stood next to him and spammed attacks until no enemies were left standing...!
Main 50 & Badger Nine Claws Claws/Regen/Body
Other 50's Ph10x Brute Unjust Law Tanker Samantha Urai Scrapper Codename 1250 Scrapper
Cepheus Defender Nilus Scrapper Electro Field Blaster S.PONGE Tanker
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It wasn't bad with WP either, specially being Spines/WP as well as it wasn't bad at all with DM/SR soft capped, but i still rate my DM/DA the best to my experience. Looking forward on my Kat/Inv, done it on my Inv tank and it was a breeze so I guess /inv should do fine, pity he's Katana though but hey ho.-
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At least your Kat/Inv should be pretty safe with capped lethal defence from DA/Invinc/TH and all that lethal resist as well. Kat is supposed to be pretty good dps-wise now too (though I haven't played the set to a decent level, and not at all since the animation times were clipped down to make the set faster).
Be interested to know how you find it, though, as I made a DB/Inv scrapper the other day. I'm not expecting it to be a powerhouse combo, but tbh I'm running out of melee/armour sets to pair up that I haven't already played. I think Spines and Stone Armour are the main two I'm lacking now (and Ice & Electric Melee, but I may play the latter on a stalker), but hopefully proliferation will let me pair those on a Brute one day, because I have some build/concept ideas for it...
My main problem with Katana were the blunt transitions between attacks, haven't tried it since the new animations. Always been tempted to roll either a DB/Inv or a Claws/Inv but for some reason I tend to plan my Inv builds with awfully expensive sets, so not sure what to do, roll a new Inv and invest inf on him or invest inf on my (semi)retired kat/inv and see if it makes him interesting to play again.
Anyway, DB/Inv strikes like a great combo to me, a bit tight on power selection (I like to take Inv passives) but nevertheless I think the synergy there is great.
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However, why on earth are you running the ITF on Inv? (Unless it's for the challenge)
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Because Heroic is far, far too easy in almost every way.
INV because to a blaster heavy ITF, there is no real diff between the lvl 50 and the upto lvl 53 mobs. As long as the tank takes the pain and holds the agro, let the nukes flow and the inf role in.
I have a fairly simple question:
Is there any real way for a scrapper to make a decent contribution to an ITF run on INV. We are talking in a normal team with no dedicated(for the scrapper) healer and buffer
Considering how badly mullered the regen got on a run I did on Tueday, I would be included to say no.
What do the rest of you think?