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angels are dead ppl, nothing magical about that.
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I'd quote wiki verbatim but its too hot for that...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Angel
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also, demons can be seen as natural, it's a born creature with the powers from the start, they never learned to be a demon in the first place.
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True, in fact you could say that they are pretty much any of the origins... not hard to come up with a back story of how a rogue scientist grafted horns onto your head and set you on fire... only your amazing regnerative powers keeping you alive.
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angels are dead ppl, nothing magical about that.
also, demons can be seen as natural, it's a born creature with the powers from the start, they never learned to be a demon in the first place.
just saying.... 
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How do you know this?
Do you, like, know angels and demons in real life? OMG! 
Seriously though, my fire/fire brute is a demon who was originally a mortal human many centuries ago, but was cursed by God and sent to Hell, then worked his way up through the ranks to earn demonhood. But then I also have a stalker who is a human host completely possessed by a demon from another dimension (and that demon is innately/originally a demon and always has been).
That's one of the strengths of CoH/V's origin system - flexibility - and when players try to nail down the origins for everyone into more specific origins that just happen to suit them personally it just makes me groan a little. And not in a good way.
Angel = messanger
No theology teaches that angel = dead person, that is an idea originating in american pop culture.
I really should do something about this signature.
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the game lore doesn't really allow for the existence of conventional religions, as it contradicts conventional religions way too much.
[/ QUOTE ]Of course, Padre Henri is an established character in the CoH lore, so we do have some references to real-world religions.
Oh course, no dev will probably ever comment how exactly Christianity is viewed in the game lore.
I would imagine if there ever was some kind of religion implemented in CoX it would have a heavy slant towards Polytheism and the worship of Zeus, Hera, Hermes, Athena etc etc as within the CoH world these beings or at least entities that claim to be them exist.
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I would imagine if there ever was some kind of religion implemented in CoX it would have a heavy slant towards Polytheism and the worship of Zeus, Hera, Hermes, Athena etc etc as within the CoH world these beings or at least entities that claim to be them exist.
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That's what I mean about them not really being able to have conventional religions - while followers of the main religions might be quite happy to play a game with an asortment of gods and other immortal creatures, they might not feel quite so comfortable if their own religion was shown to just be one of many "true" religions in the game world.
@Golden Girl
City of Heroes comics and artwork
I shudder to think about a 'christian' villain dominator with the misguided idea that burning down everything is a good religious idea or a cross wielding preacher mastermind with his band of thugs and I know that would cause trouble.
While mature people could enjoy such a thing. It would invariably hurt some peoples feelings. Religion has fueled more then enough bitter conflicts in our history. Not a good idea unless they invent a whole new set of religion that doesnt offend anyone.
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I shudder to think about a 'christian' villain dominator with the misguided idea that burning down everything is a good religious idea or a cross wielding preacher mastermind with his band of thugs and I know that would cause trouble.
While mature people could enjoy such a thing. It would invariably hurt some peoples feelings. Religion has fueled more then enough bitter conflicts in our history. Not a good idea unless they invent a whole new set of religion that doesnt offend anyone.
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Things like that wouldn't really bother me. A villain blowing something up in the name of their god is pretty much what todays terrorists do, and would prolly fit in some extent.
The thing i would dread the most in game with religion aspect, would be some numbnut would put themselves above the others and preach their way is the only way and try force their way on others. Much like jehovas who come knocking, while it amuses to make fun of them until the poitn they put an X above my door. Getting in game too would prolly kill the game mood too much 
/offtopic
Funniest was they came and preached "God brings the light".
to which i said: "No, vattenfall brings the light" (vattenfall = name of the electric company i had). They looked at me funnily and reiterated, "No, god brings the light.".
To which i flick the lightswitch on and go "Look, vattenfall is bringing the light".
we go back and forth a little bit until i tire of him, go get two knitting pins and hand them to him and point to the electric socket and say. "Well, if god brings the light, then take these and shake hands with our lord."
Funnily enough he ran out after that, and looking above my apartment door i have a little X warning others ^^
Mission accomplished!
Off topic as well
Lol thats a good story. I will remember that one for the next Jehova brave enough to knock on my door. 
On Topic:
Today's and yesterdays and the days before that has used religion to do horrible things. Think about the inquisition, suicide bombers, mass killings, the crusades and other holy wars.
Problem is that they do this partially at least with the idea that their deity wants them to do this. Bigger problem is that a lot of normal people also believe in that same deity. I can understand how that could hurt.
The normal villainy stuff is more black and white. [censored] a purse and you are a villian. Religion is more of a grey thing because it is less clear cut. One might say yes it is wrong to hurt people but his motives were pure. And before you know it the flame wars start. Nobody bothers to start flame wars over some purse thief.
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Not even if you could worship the Great Rabbit? 
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El-ahrairah. Or, more truthfully: Frith.
Did I mention I met John Hurt?
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Not even if you could worship the Great Rabbit?
[/ QUOTE ]
El-ahrairah. Or, more truthfully: Frith.
Did I mention I met John Hurt?
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What Stasis said (although I'm an Agnostic).
OMG, you met John Hurt?!
Rabbits & Hares:Blue (Mind/Emp Controller)Maroon (Rad/Thermal Corruptor)and one of each AT all at 50
MA Arcs: Apples of Contention - 3184; Zen & Relaxation - 35392; Tears of Leviathan - 121733 | All posts are rated "R" for "R-r-rrrrr, baby!"|Now, and this is very important... do you want a hug? COH Faces @Blue Rabbit
ah.. using our toons and origins we already bring in religion. I have a toon that is the Morrigan (Mor-rioghan) celtic goddess... Statesmen is Zeus avatar... another toon of mine is bound to Bast, egyptean goddess.
And I met crusaders and crosswielding heroes and villains.
We all know the Priest (pious) ... the only thing we dont have is support in buildings from COX itself.
If I wanted to make a flaming sword wielding avenging angel... Its ridiculus easy to make. Maybe I make a Gabriel
- The Italian Job: The Godfather Returns #1151
Beginner - Encounter a renewed age for the Mook and the Family when Emile Marcone escapes from the Zig!
- Along Came a... Bug!? #528482
Average - A new race of aliens arrives on Earth. And Vanguard has you investigate them!
- The Court of the Blood Countess: The Rise of the Blood Countess #3805
Advanced - Go back in time and witness the birth of a vampire. Follow her to key moments in her life in order to stop her! A story of intrigue, drama and horror! Blood & Violence... not recommend to solo!
Yeah, religious origins - eh.
I did! And he was awesome, and fantastic and gorgeous and so British. AND I met Richard Briers, only that was a couple of years ago, but also so awesome.
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Maybe I make a Gabriel
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And get genericed so fast that you'll barely be able to say "I am the servant of the Lord, your God."
While I have no personal problem with people (particularly RPers) choosing to create characters who are angels, or demons, or whatever, the instant anyone steps across the line into personages from established religions, that is going too far.
I may not have the right to do so, but I can assure you that if someone created 'The Angel Gabriel' as a character, my keyboard would probably break from the speed of the petition and my anger. Just as I would for 'Archangel Michael' or 'Christ Almighty' or anyone else that was attempting to make a mockery of my beliefs.
And THIS, ladies and gentlemen, is why I try very, very hard to politely suggest that discussing religion on these boards is a bad idea. People get very touchy about it. Including me.
The wisdom of Shadowe: Ghostraptor: The Shadowe is wise ...; FFM: Shadowe is no longer wise.
; Techbot_Alpha: Also, what Shadowe said. It seems he is still somewhat wise 
; Bull Throttle: Shadowe was unwise in this instance...; Rock_Powerfist: in this instance Shadowe is wise.; Techbot_Alpha: Shadowe is very wise *nods*; Zortel: *Quotable line about Shadowe being wise goes here.*
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Not even if you could worship the Great Rabbit?
[/ QUOTE ]
El-ahrairah. Or, more truthfully: Frith.
Did I mention I met John Hurt?
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And John Hurt is the high priest of this rabbit deity of which you speak?
Can of worms and opener, CoX table please.
Darn Stasis, you have such and interesting social life! He was part of the Watership Down cast too! I love his accent.
Rabbits & Hares:Blue (Mind/Emp Controller)Maroon (Rad/Thermal Corruptor)and one of each AT all at 50
MA Arcs: Apples of Contention - 3184; Zen & Relaxation - 35392; Tears of Leviathan - 121733 | All posts are rated "R" for "R-r-rrrrr, baby!"|Now, and this is very important... do you want a hug? COH Faces @Blue Rabbit
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ah.. using our toons and origins we already bring in religion. I have a toon that is the Morrigan (Mor-rioghan) celtic goddess...
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I've played The Morrigan as an NPC for a few plots in game. My main thought he was a priest of the same goddess until he discovered he was actually slightly insane and recovered. I still own the name Morrigan over on Defiant (I think, haven't looked) though that character isn't a goddess, she's just unhinged. Oh, and Glory thinks she might have been a goddess, but isn't anymore.
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Statesmen is Zeus avatar
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On the other hand, the background doesn't really back up the existance of 'gods' as such. Statesman is an Incarnate of Zeus, not an avatar. Zeus could be a god, or a vastly powerful being, or perhaps the first person to gain those powers way back in the First Age of Heroes.
Gods are mentioned, particularly with regards to the BP and CoT, but these creatures could simply be very powerful creatures.
Disclaimer: The above may be humerous, or at least may be an attempt at humour. Try reading it that way.
Posts are OOC unless noted to be IC, or in an IC thread.
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Not even if you could worship the Great Rabbit?
[/ QUOTE ]
El-ahrairah. Or, more truthfully: Frith.
Did I mention I met John Hurt?
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And John Hurt is the high priest of this rabbit deity of which you speak?
[/ QUOTE ]
John Hurt is the leader of the group who worship them and they guide them thro... ok, this is one of those weird conversations I promised myself I wouldn't have.
I know, Rabbit. I got both of their autographs on my rare, first edition, Watership Down film animation book. *dances*
hmm.. in comics it was never a problem... The Demon Etrigan... Mephisto... There is a real angel running in the DC universe.. there are real greek gods in both. And what about Thor?!
I know there was a celtic god powered being in Marvel. And eventually the Hellstorm Prince of Lies went into the real believs... ofcourse it was cancelled after 20+ isue. Prob because of that.
Whatever someones believe is... shouldn't we being able to accept characters based upon those believes?!
If we can accept Thor (Marvel)... We should be able to accept Gabriel... and as such being able to accept Lucifer (DC)... So we can accept Athena (Wonder Woman) and Hercules (Marvel)
Lets not be short sighted.Each of these could be just as much an issue to worshippers of those believes that may or may not be still around. And as long as we can't accept this there will be a good reason for war amongst men.
(btw. at work now... but I am almost certain most of these names are already taken too, happy petitioning!)
- The Italian Job: The Godfather Returns #1151
Beginner - Encounter a renewed age for the Mook and the Family when Emile Marcone escapes from the Zig!
- Along Came a... Bug!? #528482
Average - A new race of aliens arrives on Earth. And Vanguard has you investigate them!
- The Court of the Blood Countess: The Rise of the Blood Countess #3805
Advanced - Go back in time and witness the birth of a vampire. Follow her to key moments in her life in order to stop her! A story of intrigue, drama and horror! Blood & Violence... not recommend to solo!
There is a world of difference between using an entity from a dead religion (such as those from Norse or Ancient Greece) and using one from a currently extant religion.
There is also a world of difference between creating a character for RP that is linked to a religion, and creating a character for RP that is in a religion.
Open-minded has nothing to do with it - I am open minded regarding other people's religious beliefs. I am willing to accept that my faith may not suit everyone, and that they may choose to believe things that are different to what I believe - I do, however, draw the line at passively accepting someone's blasphemy by claiming to be a connected to my religion when they are not. Just as I would not create a character called "The Prophet Mohammed", out of respect for the beliefs of others, no other reason, I would expect all others to respect MY beliefs and give me the same consideration.
The wisdom of Shadowe: Ghostraptor: The Shadowe is wise ...; FFM: Shadowe is no longer wise.
; Techbot_Alpha: Also, what Shadowe said. It seems he is still somewhat wise ; Bull Throttle: Shadowe was unwise in this instance...; Rock_Powerfist: in this instance Shadowe is wise.; Techbot_Alpha: Shadowe is very wise *nods*; Zortel: *Quotable line about Shadowe being wise goes here.*
Actually, this might be one of the problems with them making us a Middle Ages zone to time travel back to - the church was so big and powerful in those days it might be imposible to ignore it in a medieval setting.
We get a trip to a shrine in Cimerora, and a big fight there, and that works fine - but I think it'd be impossible to do anything similar involving a church.
@Golden Girl
City of Heroes comics and artwork
[ QUOTE ]
There is a world of difference between using an entity from a dead religion (such as those from Norse or Ancient Greece) and using one from a currently extant religion.
There is also a world of difference between creating a character for RP that is linked to a religion, and creating a character for RP that is in a religion.
Open-minded has nothing to do with it - I am open minded regarding other people's religious beliefs. I am willing to accept that my faith may not suit everyone, and that they may choose to believe things that are different to what I believe - I do, however, draw the line at passively accepting someone's blasphemy by claiming to be a connected to my religion when they are not. Just as I would not create a character called "The Prophet Mohammed", out of respect for the beliefs of others, no other reason, I would expect all others to respect MY beliefs and give me the same consideration.
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ah.. first.. most of those religions aren't dead. Some have been revived and are excpeted as official religions. The norse and celtic for instance.
Being atheistic I am not offended by ANY use of religious icon being or whatever in any way. I CAN however understand that those who are religious would be having trouble with misuse of their mythological, legendary or historic elements. I have travelled all over the world and can accept peoples belives and customs. I just would like to see the rest of the world do that too.
And it is a fact that there are beings from active/living religions are being used one way or the other in comics. But being sensible I can also see that in no way an american game would trust its players to act free on that or endorse any of them.
Just wanted to state its there and its possible. And there is even a very good chance you would not be generict.
Back on topic... All religions and magic are interconnected. Actually basically the same. Most of the magic invokes deities of any kind. Therefore most magicians are some sort of shamans or priests. So a magic orgin is around magic powers... which are often derived from a mystical being that can be seen as a god to any of the religions available.
ergo... magic origin, or a natural with magic powers from a mystical empowered artifact is actually the same as an religious origin. So no change is needed.
- The Italian Job: The Godfather Returns #1151
Beginner - Encounter a renewed age for the Mook and the Family when Emile Marcone escapes from the Zig!
- Along Came a... Bug!? #528482
Average - A new race of aliens arrives on Earth. And Vanguard has you investigate them!
- The Court of the Blood Countess: The Rise of the Blood Countess #3805
Advanced - Go back in time and witness the birth of a vampire. Follow her to key moments in her life in order to stop her! A story of intrigue, drama and horror! Blood & Violence... not recommend to solo!
This thread looks like its turning into a nice big can of worms. Would it really matter if some one created the Michael or one of his fellow angels as a Alt.
To complain simply because some ones created them is IMO daft especially if the person playing that alt is doing so in a respectful way
If you are going to complain about it you should treat all such characters or Alts the same to say "i don't want to see Michael as a Alt because it offends me but Zeus or Thor's fine because there a dead religion" could be taken as very offensive people still follow these religions as recently as 2006 a court case was one to once again allow the worship of the Greek gods in Athens so don't assume just because its a old religion that had a decline in numbers that its a dead religion
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mage users are magic in origin.. Magic invokes Angels, demons, and beings from beyond. Those beings are therefore also magic in origin.
Not needed as new one.
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angels are dead ppl, nothing magical about that.
also, demons can be seen as natural, it's a born creature with the powers from the start, they never learned to be a demon in the first place.
just saying....