All the sets are different, and have different focuses. Also, it's not just Def and Res values to look for! Different tanks have different levels of Def, Res, Regen, +hp, healing, and maybe even debuffs.
Would probably be able to be more helpful if you ask about specific primaries!
Depends on what powerset you have chosen my lvl 36 inv tank runs at :-
Def smash- 10-30 dependent on how many mobs in melee
fire- 10-30
Res smash- 75%
fire- 14%
where as my lvl 25 fire tank runs
Def smash- 3
fire- 3
Res smash- 40%
fire- 70%
Not sure about any other powersets as I've never played them, my advice would be get a copy of mids hero designer and have a good look for yourself, hope this is of some help.
One thing I would say actually is that you will find the amount and type of protection you want within a set through trial and error. Generally you're going to want most of your primary powers to be survivable (there are exceptions), and if you feel you could use a heal, grab one from medicine, if you feel you are short on res, get some from the fighting pool.
Okay, was actually posting my spec and values before evening meal until a hideous accident with the back page key, coinciding with the "Go take the pizzas out before they burn" put a damper on that
So my original post. Im actually Fire/Fire. I know this isnt a brilliant set for a tanking, but I like flashy so what can I do.... Im already using Mids Hero builder, and my current values are coming out as follows:-
Def
11.3% across the board. (Can get this to 15% if I change my travel power, but then I lose flurry and its a great attack IMO)
Res
70.2% Smashing
70.2% Lethal
46.5% Energy
46.8% Negative
90.0% Fire (actually 140%, but [censored] those evil Caps)
31.2% Cold
I feel my Def is a little low, but maybe I would be relying on buffs to get that up? If my numbers seem a little off, its because it took me 3 years in WoW to realise that ALL MMO's are a numbers game if you want to beat the oddss, but I try to have fun in with the mix.... ;p
That seems fine, what is the recharge and heal% of healing flames?
Ive slotted them for Heal and Recharge rather than adding Res too, bring them to 20.5s recharge with 48.7% heal. The extra 7% heal is worth far more then the 8% toxic Res I would get with Res SO's IMHO.
Master Extreme-*puts his arm round Raven33 and leads him to a quite part of the gym* Now mate you don't want to be swinging your arms round like that just hit em, just hit him as hard as you can, just 1 hit that's all you need. Go on give it a go.
If you like playing the odds look at this math.
Dmg per sec = Dmg / Recharge time + Cast time
so
Flurry = 8.3 ( 50/3+3 )
whereas
Boxing = 9.6 ( 33.8/2.5+1 )
some 15 % better
as to your tank build post the mids data block and I'll have a look if you like.
Hero Plan by Mids' Hero Designer 1.401
http://www.cohplanner.com/
Blazes: Level 50 Magic Tanker
Primary Power Set: Fiery Aura
Secondary Power Set: Fiery Melee
Power Pool: Speed
Power Pool: Fitness
Power Pool: Leadership
Power Pool: Fighting
Hero Profile:
Level 1: Blazing Aura -- Acc(A), Acc(3), Dmg(3), Dmg(5), Taunt(5), Taunt(7)
Level 1: Scorch -- Acc(A), Acc(45), Dmg(48)
Level 2: Fire Shield -- ResDam(A), ResDam(7), ResDam(9), EndRdx(9), EndRdx(11), EndRdx(11)
Level 4: Combustion -- Acc(A), Acc(13), Dmg(13), Dmg(15), Taunt(15), Taunt(17)
Level 6: Flurry -- Acc(A), Acc(46), Dmg(48)
Level 8: Temperature Protection -- ResDam(A), ResDam(17), ResDam(19)
Level 10: Healing Flames -- Heal(A), Heal(19), Heal(21), RechRdx(21), RechRdx(23), RechRdx(23)
Level 12: Plasma Shield -- ResDam(A), ResDam(25), ResDam(25), EndRdx(27), EndRdx(27), EndRdx(29)
Level 14: Taunt -- RechRdx(A)
Level 16: Consume -- EndMod(A), EndMod(29), EndMod(31), RechRdx(37), RechRdx(37), RechRdx(37)
Level 18: Burn -- Dmg(A), Dmg(31), Dmg(31), RechRdx(33), RechRdx(33), RechRdx(33)
Level 20: Super Speed -- Run(A)
Level 22: Hurdle -- Jump(A)
Level 24: Health -- Heal(A), Heal(34), Heal(34)
Level 26: Stamina -- EndMod(A), EndMod(34), EndMod(36)
Level 28: Maneuvers -- DefBuff(A), DefBuff(36), DefBuff(36)
Level 30: Fiery Embrace -- EndRdx(A), EndRdx(39), EndRdx(39)
Level 32: Boxing -- Acc(A), Acc(46), Dmg(48)
Level 35: Tough -- ResDam(A), ResDam(39), ResDam(40), EndRdx(40), EndRdx(40), EndRdx(42)
Level 38: Weave -- DefBuff(A), DefBuff(42), DefBuff(42), EndRdx(43), EndRdx(43), EndRdx(43)
Level 41: Whirlwind -- RechRdx(A), RechRdx(45), RechRdx(45)
Level 44: Incinerate -- Acc(A), Acc(46), Dmg(50), Dmg(50), Taunt(50)
Level 47: Rise of the Phoenix -- Empty(A)
Level 49: Assault -- Empty(A)
------------
Level 1: Brawl -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Sprint -- Empty(A)
Level 2: Rest -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Gauntlet
<font class="small">Code:[/color]<hr /><pre>| Copy & Paste this data into Mids' Hero Designer to view the build |
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A Quick edit with a few change rounds
hmm, you missed out any decent fiery melee attacks
maneuvers is a pretty pointless power for a tank to take, Fire Sword Circle would increase your survivability far more as mobs would be dead. Greater Fire Sword does amazing damage for a tank.
You really really really don't need temperature portection
Whirlwind is awful, pretty much the only way you have of damaging stuff is if its next to you, whirlwind throws it away
Hasten is far better than Flurry
[ QUOTE ]
hmm, you missed out any decent fiery melee attacks
maneuvers is a pretty pointless power for a tank to take, Fire Sword Circle would increase your survivability far more as mobs would be dead. Greater Fire Sword does amazing damage for a tank.
You really really really don't need temperature portection
Whirlwind is awful, pretty much the only way you have of damaging stuff is if its next to you, whirlwind throws it away
Hasten is far better than Flurry
[/ QUOTE ]
But I didnt ask about attacks.... I asked about Def & Res... ;p
Truth is i have an idea of the way I want my Tank to be. I dont like Fire Sword, i think its unrealistic and looks false and I dont want it as part of my set.
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
hmm, you missed out any decent fiery melee attacks
maneuvers is a pretty pointless power for a tank to take, Fire Sword Circle would increase your survivability far more as mobs would be dead. Greater Fire Sword does amazing damage for a tank.
You really really really don't need temperature portection
Whirlwind is awful, pretty much the only way you have of damaging stuff is if its next to you, whirlwind throws it away
Hasten is far better than Flurry
[/ QUOTE ]
But I didnt ask about attacks.... I asked about Def & Res... ;p
[/ QUOTE ]
What he's saying is you've sacrificed a lot to get a tiny amount of def where you're losing mitigation. What you have to think is with your resistance can mobs do more than healing flames can heal before its recharged. Then think that with you throwing out Fire Sword Circle that you could cut that finer, knowing you dont have to be back to full hit points each time cause your additional damage is reducing incoming attacks. Its also providing you with Gauntlet (though to be honest combustion is fairly good for that alone with its larger AoE) and thus keeping agro on you.
Oh and whirlwind means keeping foes grouped will be much harder and any AoEs will catch fewer foes. Poor power for most melee toons, not a great one for anybody
"Well, they found my diary today.
They were appropriately appalled
at the discovery of the eight victims
They're now putting it all together.
Women wrapped in silk
with one leg missing
Eight legs, one body, silk,
spider, brilliant!"
At this point its probably best for me to mention that I am ALWAYS paired with one of y wifes characters, which on my Tank just happens to be her MC/Emp Troller, great combo.
The WHirlwind was taken as a breather, coz if they are flying round the room, they are not hitting me.
Flurry rather than hasten because I have to have something to do while my AoEs are aggroing everything!
[ QUOTE ]
The WHirlwind was taken as a breather, coz if they are flying round the room, they are not hitting me
[/ QUOTE ]
I'm wondering however how after that, especially seeing youre teamed with a squishy support char, how easy it is to get all the aggro back when theyre scattered over the place.
"god, how many devs did hami have to sleep with to get ED?"
Total Cat @Stagefright
Guess you would have to team with me to see that..
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
The WHirlwind was taken as a breather, coz if they are flying round the room, they are not hitting me
[/ QUOTE ]
I'm wondering however how after that, especially seeing youre teamed with a squishy support char, how easy it is to get all the aggro back when theyre scattered over the place.
[/ QUOTE ]
I'm wondering how when teamed with a Mind controller you need a weak soft control power.
Also MC/Emp isn't that amazing damage, and Fortitude will give you plenty enough def.
"Well, they found my diary today.
They were appropriately appalled
at the discovery of the eight victims
They're now putting it all together.
Women wrapped in silk
with one leg missing
Eight legs, one body, silk,
spider, brilliant!"
[ QUOTE ]
The WHirlwind was taken as a breather, coz if they are flying round the room, they are not hitting me.
Flurry rather than hasten because I have to have something to do while my AoEs are aggroing everything!
[/ QUOTE ]Current version of Whirlwind = Scatter, scatter, scatter = Inefficiency. Besides, if you're teamed with a controller, you really have no need for it.
Hasten would allow other attack powers to recharge faster, thus negating the need for flurry. Besides, as a fire tank you want healing flames to be up as often as possible, thus making +recharge really desirable.
I believe the original question was how much Res and Def should I have. I may decide to post the "Please criticise my build" thread later this week. I hereby reserve the right to play how I want to play.
Thanks.
[ QUOTE ]
I believe the original question was how much Res and Def should I have. I may decide to post the "Please criticise my build" thread later this week. I hereby reserve the right to play how I want to play.
Thanks.
[/ QUOTE ]
Thing is, you cant just aim for hard figures of res/def and call yourself a good/bad tank. It's also dependent on your other powers and playstyle. Like as stated before, hasten improves rech, means healing flames is up more, means you need less res cause you can heal faster. The basic trick of tanking is getting the opponent killed before he can do enough damage to kill you. Not just thinking "i got this amount of def/res so i'll live".
"god, how many devs did hami have to sleep with to get ED?"
Total Cat @Stagefright
In all honesty, a fire tank doesn't need def, you want as much res as possible. With tough you can get your smash/lethal res to about 70%. Leave the def to invun, ice and stone tankers. Hasten would be advisable as others have said so healing flames recharges quicker. And the whole point of a tank is to keep aggro, throwing it about with whirlwind is not helping anyone, let alone yourself. and if you want a "flurry" power use sands of mu vet reward. Drop all def based powers because they are a waste, set bonuses are just a bonus (duh 
) and try to squeeze as much res out of the fire tank as possible. I've been playing mine fore 3 years and def doesnt help it
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
hmm, you missed out any decent fiery melee attacks
maneuvers is a pretty pointless power for a tank to take, Fire Sword Circle would increase your survivability far more as mobs would be dead. Greater Fire Sword does amazing damage for a tank.
You really really really don't need temperature portection
Whirlwind is awful, pretty much the only way you have of damaging stuff is if its next to you, whirlwind throws it away
Hasten is far better than Flurry
[/ QUOTE ]
But I didnt ask about attacks.... I asked about Def & Res... ;p
Truth is i have an idea of the way I want my Tank to be. I dont like Fire Sword, i think its unrealistic and looks false and I dont want it as part of my set.
[/ QUOTE ]
Post a rubbish build on a public forum and it will be criticised. Fine if you like to play that way but you are limiting your potential.
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
hmm, you missed out any decent fiery melee attacks
maneuvers is a pretty pointless power for a tank to take, Fire Sword Circle would increase your survivability far more as mobs would be dead. Greater Fire Sword does amazing damage for a tank.
You really really really don't need temperature portection
Whirlwind is awful, pretty much the only way you have of damaging stuff is if its next to you, whirlwind throws it away
Hasten is far better than Flurry
[/ QUOTE ]
But I didnt ask about attacks.... I asked about Def & Res... ;p
Truth is i have an idea of the way I want my Tank to be. I dont like Fire Sword, i think its unrealistic and looks false and I dont want it as part of my set.
[/ QUOTE ]
Post a rubbish build on a public forum and it will be criticised. Fine if you like to play that way but you are limiting your potential.
[/ QUOTE ]
And its rubbish YOU say so? or just because its not the perfect tanking spec, although you raise a valid point. NOT to post my specs on the forums or ask for advice, because people insist on telling others how to play.
Potential? It aint about potential, its a game, its all about the fun. I forgot that once and turned into someone that I didnt want to be.
Thanks to Shenny for what appears to be some nice genuine advice.
[ QUOTE ]
So my original post. Im actually Fire/Fire. I know this isnt a brilliant set for a tanking
[/ QUOTE ]
Fire is a greatly underrated tank set.
Although be aware that a lot of your survivability comes from healing flames.
[ QUOTE ]
Def
11.3% across the board. (Can get this to 15% if I change my travel power, but then I lose flurry and its a great attack IMO)
[/ QUOTE ]
Lose flurry!
Hasten would be a good pick mind, let you get the healing flames back asap.
[ QUOTE ]
Res
70.2% Smashing
70.2% Lethal
46.5% Energy
46.8% Negative
90.0% Fire (actually 140%, but [censored] those evil Caps)
31.2% Cold
[/ QUOTE ]
Nice.
[ QUOTE ]
I feel my Def is a little low, but maybe I would be relying on buffs to get that up? If my numbers seem a little off, its because it took me 3 years in WoW to realise that ALL MMO's are a numbers game if you want to beat the oddss, but I try to have fun in with the mix.... ;p
[/ QUOTE ]
Your resistance and healing flames will be what gives you your survivability.
Don't worry too much about the Def, you would not be able to get enough to make that huge a difference in any case.
Edit:
Just another thought, but if you are only going to be tanking for a duo, then there is no need to maximize defence to that extent.
You just won't need it.
With that build posted if u turn all your toggles on your end would dissapear in 2 attacks.
Fire/fire tanks can be amazing toons. I can see your point about having fun and I too prefer to build my toons for myself rather than going for maxxed out builds. I like pvp but I tend to just pick sets i like and make them work as best I can in pvp.
But flurry,weave and assault are just a waste of your end imo.
As has been said forget about def. Go for more damage. Try shuffling your build around and drop those 3 powers and get the pyre epic.
Also hasten is excellent for a fire tanker.
Fire/fire/fire is an amazing toon if you work on the build. HUGE damage output and great survivability.
Wow sorry mate
If I knew you where gonna get a flaming like that I wouldn't of asked you to post your build.
I'm fuming at these people who are more interested in shoving there own probably over inflated opinions down your throat than listening to your questions or opinions.
What values should a typical Tank be looking for both of these?