Fire.
Yep, Fire thanks to contained Hotfeet, then probably Mind and then Gravity.
Hmm didn't want to make another Fire/? 
Oh well wait until i12 
AoE = fire, due to hot feet
ST = Grav (mainly propel but also lift for a complete attack chain)
This is excluding Pets, of course. Fire Imps do most damage, but on flip side, they are most vulnerable to getting snuffed out.
I have a fire/kin at 40+ who I like playing (non-farmer), and a pair of mind/rad at 20+ and a pair of grav/rad at 14... I wanted to make a pair of ???/Rad to play for all out damage, because its a duo it plays quite differently from a solo character so I'd prefer to steer clear from fire... but with more character slots...
Or I could play on Union, but then I have no resources. 
I'll have to see.
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I have a fire/kin at 40+ who I like playing (non-farmer), and a pair of mind/rad at 20+ and a pair of grav/rad at 14... I wanted to make a pair of ???/Rad to play for all out damage, because its a duo it plays quite differently from a solo character so I'd prefer to steer clear from fire... but with more character slots...
Or I could play on Union, but then I have no resources.
I'll have to see.
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So why the "No pets" stipulation? Illusion does better damage than Grav once you factor in the PAs & Phanty.
Because I wanted to know which does most damage from the controls rather than who has the better pets. Which I suspect is fire anyway, with FS my Imps do insane damage. I hoped that the lack of pets would bring fire out of it 1st place slot for one of the other primaries.
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I have a fire/kin at 40+ who I like playing (non-farmer), and a pair of mind/rad at 20+ and a pair of grav/rad at 14... I wanted to make a pair of ???/Rad to play for all out damage, because its a duo it plays quite differently from a solo character so I'd prefer to steer clear from fire... but with more character slots...
Or I could play on Union, but then I have no resources.
I'll have to see.
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So why the "No pets" stipulation? Illusion does better damage than Grav once you factor in the PAs & Phanty.
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Sure? My Grav troller outdamaes in terms of ST damage my Illusion controller. Mid's also suggests Grav outdamages Illusion. I know its hard to compare, as Illusion is unresisted psionic damage, but also has a tendency to dissapear...
But from personaly experience, the only troller I havent played is Ice, and Grav does most ST damage quite clearly in my eyes. This is pre-last teir pet anyway.
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Not including external damage buffs.
Not including buffs/debuffs from secondary.
[/ QUOTE ]Since none of the primaries contain any damage buffs or resistance debuffs, neither of those will make any difference anyways.
imo Gravity runs the best damage, having played all controls except fire, to 30s.
Plus it has the massive advantage of having Propel, the best power in the game, or indeed, the world
Quote:
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Originally Posted by VoodooGirl
[*]Watching out for the Spinning Disco Portal of D00M!*
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In my opinion it's:
Fire
Mind
Ill
Grav
Ice
Earth
Mind has got 3 quick firing ST attacks plus a good damage AoE in Terrify.
Mass Hypnosis can be used to setup containment for maximum effect - it will also play very differently to fire as it has no pets.
L50s: Tanks: Cryofission - Ice/EM - Dr Celsius - Fire/Ice - Saint George - SD/SS | Controllers: Psichosis - Ill/Kin - Major Chaos - Ill/Stm | Scrappers - Neutron Crusader - DM/SR
Currently Levelling: Angelic Blade - BS/WP Scrapper | Seeds of Destruction - Plant/Kin Controller
Doesn't Spectral wounds make the difference if we don't count pets or buffs?
Thinking about it - excluding pets Illusion probably is at the bottom with Earth and Ice as it only has 2 ST attacks and really needs Air Sup to give it a good attack chain.
Fire is king with Hotfeet and Fire Cages leaving Mind and Grav to fight over 2nd place.
Playing Grav you need to spam Crushing Field to whittle down the minions while you use Propel on the bosses and lieuts, this is effective but really needs a debuff secondary for it to work such as Rad.
Mind would involve Mass Hypnosis and Terrify while using Mesmerize, Levitate and Dominate on the bosses and lieuts.
I would expect Mind to win personally.
I know that the OP said excluding secondary but if you did include the secondary an FS boosted terrify would destroy mobs at a rate that the Grav couldn't touch - so again from a real play perspective for me it's Mind.
L50s: Tanks: Cryofission - Ice/EM - Dr Celsius - Fire/Ice - Saint George - SD/SS | Controllers: Psichosis - Ill/Kin - Major Chaos - Ill/Stm | Scrappers - Neutron Crusader - DM/SR
Currently Levelling: Angelic Blade - BS/WP Scrapper | Seeds of Destruction - Plant/Kin Controller
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Thinking about it - excluding pets Illusion probably is at the bottom with Earth and Ice as it only has 2 ST attacks and really needs Air Sup to give it a good attack chain.
Fire is king with Hotfeet and Fire Cages leaving Mind and Grav to fight over 2nd place.
Playing Grav you need to spam Crushing Field to whittle down the minions while you use Propel on the bosses and lieuts, this is effective but really needs a debuff secondary for it to work such as Rad.
Mind would involve Mass Hypnosis and Terrify while using Mesmerize, Levitate and Dominate on the bosses and lieuts.
I would expect Mind to win personally.
I know that the OP said excluding secondary but if you did include the secondary an FS boosted terrify would destroy mobs at a rate that the Grav couldn't touch - so again from a real play perspective for me it's Mind.
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I really must emphasise... Grav's Single Target damage absolutely wipes the floor with any other Primary. Propel has absolutely *sickening* damage that can often wipe 2/3 or more of a minions health with one blast. Add to that the very respectable lift, along side curshiing feild, and you have an attack chain that really cant be beat.
Mind was a respectable second place - and of course there are times when heavily smash resistant foes would cause it to exceed Grav's damage - but when facing Robots, Mind control was painful.
According to Mid's, Propel does almost twice as much damage as Mesmerize and Dominate. Both sets have a "Lift" power that is carbon copied, so you cant compare. Mesmerise does equal to Crushing feild, and DOminate actually does slightly *less* damage than the Grav Hold.
Mind does have Terrify as an AoE power but with a 40 second base recharge, this is not much in terms of Single Target damage.
So do the maths: Discounting resistances, Grav is FAR superior to Mind in terms of single target damages, mainly by virtue of an additional ST power that is 190% damage of the ST holds/sleeps/immobilises. And it only has an 8 second recharge, meaning it does 10x the rate of ST damage than Terrify.
Aside from Maths, I can say from Practical experience that Grav really does outdo Mind interms of ST damage. Mind has better control, however, to compensate.
(NB This is exluding Pets, which gives Grav even more ST damage compared to mind)
Propel takes ages to activate though, pulling dps down.
From experience of my two teams.
Mind is lower damage overall for instance propel in gravity at 14 does as much damage as lift in mind does at 20 (Against CoT). However Mind is far safer as the AoE sleep means that in general the mob I'm fighting is unaware for most of the fight. Gravity as noted does better damage but I also take more damage due to the lack of a low level sleep/hold/stun AoE...
However the amount of junk I get left lying around the map with 2x Propel...
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Thinking about it - excluding pets Illusion probably is at the bottom with Earth and Ice as it only has 2 ST attacks and really needs Air Sup to give it a good attack chain.
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Can't speak for grav, but my illu troller deffo beats mind in terms of dmg. It only has 2 st attacks, but there is at least one that is always up, so that's not a big issue actually. Mind has more ST attacks, but it needs 3 of them to match a single SW
I've played Mind, Grav and Ill also - I agree that Grav has better ST damage than Mind however that wasn't the OP's query! The question was "what is the most damaging primary" - outside of Fire that is Mind. Illusion has no AoE outside of pets and those are excluded and Grav has none apart from of crushing field.
So I stand by my statement: Fire, Mind, Grav, then the others.
In regards to Illusion it does need another power to fill out the attack chain or else your left twiddling your thumbs for a bit.
L50s: Tanks: Cryofission - Ice/EM - Dr Celsius - Fire/Ice - Saint George - SD/SS | Controllers: Psichosis - Ill/Kin - Major Chaos - Ill/Stm | Scrappers - Neutron Crusader - DM/SR
Currently Levelling: Angelic Blade - BS/WP Scrapper | Seeds of Destruction - Plant/Kin Controller
Can I ask how you got blind and SW slotted?.
Fire has the best aoe dmg, that for granted, but ST wise I stand my case and having at least one 50 of every troller primary but grav, so I'm not counting it, Illu is imo the highest dmg primary
Hi Dark,
My Ill/ is a L50 Ill/Kin; I'm not sure of his current slotting - not played him for a while and I've respecced hem so many times.
I would expect it to be:
Blind: 2Acc,3Hld,1Rchg
SW: 2Acc,3Dmg,1Rchg
Although I've played with 2,2,2 as well.
My comments on the need for Air Sup in the chain is based on experience while leveling. I saw it recommended on the US forums, tried it and never looked back.
Off the top of my head the recharge of Blind is about 9s and SW is 6s each with an Activation of about a second.
A Blind - SW attack chain will leave you waiting for Blind and SW to come back up.
Blind - SW - AS has virtually no downtime as AS has a 4s recharge - it also offers some additional control with the KD.
I certainly noticed the difference in dps with the addition of AS.
On the subject of ST damage I don't think that there is a lot of difference between Grav, Mind and Ill provided that Ill has AS
Grav has the big hitter in Propel but with a 4+s activation the other two could fire off 2 attacks in that time.
So for me its still Grav, Mind and Ill fighting for 1st place for ST damage - probably is Grav though.
Mind I believe is a clear winner for AoE though(excluding Fire of course).
Terrify with 1Acc,3Dmg,2Rchg
Haste for more recharge.
Tactics for ToHit to compensate for single Acc, plus some IO sets giving more Acc and Rchg Terrify would be up every 25s or so - with containment that is a lot of damage.
Pair that with /kin using stacked siphon speed, FS and containment and you have a mini nuke available every mob.
Just my opinion of course. 
L50s: Tanks: Cryofission - Ice/EM - Dr Celsius - Fire/Ice - Saint George - SD/SS | Controllers: Psichosis - Ill/Kin - Major Chaos - Ill/Stm | Scrappers - Neutron Crusader - DM/SR
Currently Levelling: Angelic Blade - BS/WP Scrapper | Seeds of Destruction - Plant/Kin Controller
I should have made my initial query more firm. When I said no pets I had forgotten Ill pets and was meaning the level 32 pets that all but mind get.
From the OP I see you have flirted with the right sets but never quite put them together in one toon - Fire/Rad ftw
I made a Fire/Kin ages ago, long before i9 anyway, but never really got far. I made the mind/rads as an exercise just to see what they would play like, and have found that its actually a great deal of fun. I fully plan on trying a pair of fire/rad in the near future but probably not until i12 and some extra slots come along. The Grav/Rads are queued for deletion as while they do do a lot of ST damage they die far too quickly and are very slow in combat even with stacked AM.
In the title...
But:
Not including external damage buffs.
Not including Pets
Not including buffs/debuffs from secondary.