You can make tankers that tanks great and still are able to solo without them being scrankers....
UNION
Officer Cuffz lvl 50 Inv/Nrg Tank
Badge lvl 50 dwarf/human Peacebringer
Dark Air lvl 50 Ice/Cold Corruptor
Ayre lvl 50 Storm/Elec Defender
Total Cat: @Officer Cuffz
"When I say interview, I mean engage in combat and defeat..." -Laura Brunetti, on how to deal with Warriors.
IMO you just have to decide where upon the Solo <---> Team spectrum you lie.
Bearing in mind even a MA/Regen Scrapper can team (although wont pull his weight) and a FF/Dark Defender can solo (although it will be painful).
Of course, most toons fall somewhere in the middle.
My advice? if you want to solo, roll a solo toon.
With regards to your tank, either respec him into a scranker, (but dont expect to be Mr. popular on teams, and for team effective ness to drop), or keep him as a tank and make a solo alt. Personally I would do the latter.
Im pretty clear that I have a few toons built for insomnia and solo play. And im pretty clear they would be an embarressment in a team.
The majority of my toons are team built. Most of them are able to solo to a degree although its not quick or easy. Personally, my tank has three attacks (Frozen fists, Air Superiority and Boxing) and soloing him with him is fruitless. However, he is incredibly hard and an aggro magnet (Ice/Ice tank with fighting and medicine pool, and taunt). Some of my other team toons (Grav/Rad troller, Spines/DA scrapper, Sonic/Fire blaster all for instance) are pretty much team built but are able to while away the time solo on Rugged without too much difficulty.
You may want to choose a middle ground is want im saying.
Some peoples idea of a tanker is someone thats immortal allowing the rest of the team to shoot fish in a barrel.
The more damage you do the less time you spend getting hit.
The faster you have assumed taunt control for debuffs the less time you spend getting hit.
In a half decent team what they have to add inevitably in support often stacks with your build and in PVE only so much of anything is needed.
Sadly people complain about PuGs showing that despite the potential level of team survivability on offer its not what is shown.
Most people only play one AT, understand that roughly and possibly have slotted in ways that make min/maxxers squirm.
A tanker is meant to tank for itself and others, defenders are meant to defend for themselves and others...oh wait empaths heal aura doesn't count much.. the point I am getting at is that we are all supposed to offer each other various levels of support through the correct timing of the powers we have and the best dynamic we can offer.
A team can easily have a dynamic where only the tanker needs support but normally its tanker builds that virtually need no support in the middle of a team that needs the support.
You just don't get everything in a build and you just dont and shouldn't have one person making the team neither.
MMOs are supposed to make people team and socialize.
When you try to solo a tanker its hard only if you lack the damage output. If I see +3 Dark Ring Mistresses and I have to solo them and if I am in an 8 man team I have to rely on the team inevitably one way or another even if its their damage causing the fight duration to be shortened.
Not everyone compliments everyone else's play style as we all design ourselves to do things a certain way. Skranking as far as I am concerned is doing little in taunt control. Any tank who teams with 1 /sonic controller and one sonic defender can let go of their resists and tank. As long as their is an adequate amount of taunt control its what they are doing.
Anyway last I looked at your build you had more attacks than I do 
He will honor his words; he will definitely carry out his actions. What he promises he will fulfill. He does not care about his bodily self, putting his life and death aside to come forward for another's troubled besiegement. He does not boast about his ability, or shamelessly extol his own virtues. - Sima Qian.
Actully, my point was that a pure breed Tanker is a team player but since teams these days seems few and far between then will solo oriented scrankers take over as the most common AT build?
My build has 6 attacks + (3-slotted) taunt, and Hasten to speed up those attacks.
I have Invincibility slotted with taunt, I can hold aggro, and I can hold it pretty well.
I can solo elite bosses between two yawns.
I can also tank AVs without people getting killed, just as well as any "team build tank"
For a task force or certain events I'd choose a aggroholding "scranker" over a "pure breed" anyday.
And this is why: when I did the Statesmans task force it was me and a Granite tank as tankers.
But as we only had Lord Recluse left we aggroed the Flier, so while the Granite tanked Recluse I flew up and taunted it away from the team so they could hit at Recluse in peace.
But, despite all their damage, debuffs and Buffs they couldnt get Recluse past a certain point, his health started to hover around a certain amount and it seemed to take ages.
Luckily, the flier must have despawned because suddenly I was free to go down and help the rest put him down, and I like to think it was my added damage that turned the tides.
Now, had I been a "pure breed tanker"....
I think you can draw your own conclusions.
Now "pure breeds" are great if youre going inside a door mission, and run off and hard 17 freakshow to a chokepoint for the rest of the team to blast away at.
But please..
"pure breeds" at the Eden trial.. or a Rikti mothership raid? or Hami!?
Ok, maybe Hami's a bit of a low blow, I have the fullest confidence that a pure breed would be able to tank hami... but so would a scranker with only Unyielding and Taunt..
So, in answer to your question, don't see all the "scrankers" as a sign of more soloing tankers, but rather of tankers starting to realize that the "middle ground" as Cognito mentioned are better as theyre now free to do more content with the tank instead of just the same thing all the time.
UNION
Officer Cuffz lvl 50 Inv/Nrg Tank
Badge lvl 50 dwarf/human Peacebringer
Dark Air lvl 50 Ice/Cold Corruptor
Ayre lvl 50 Storm/Elec Defender
Total Cat: @Officer Cuffz
"When I say interview, I mean engage in combat and defeat..." -Laura Brunetti, on how to deal with Warriors.
I like to think that it's the other players faults. Everyone will initially stick to me because of my taunt aura. If they can't handle the aggro of a single enemy after shooting the sod, they should just let Daddy deal with it all instead. 
Chairman of the Charity of Pain; accepting donations of blood and guts.
Prophet of the Creamy Truth; "If it's empty, fill it with cream."
[ QUOTE ]
Actully, my point was that a pure breed Tanker is a team player but since teams these days seems few and far between then will solo oriented scrankers take over as the most common AT build?
[/ QUOTE ]
I do see solo orientated tanks made for pvp. I think its poo. Tanking with brutes is easy, I had a rad corrupter add me to his global cos he was happy a few days ago. He could debuff a lot more foes in a single debuff and we could AoE the hell out of them defeating them all faster than the one by one scenario. Before he'd debuff and get aggro whilst a brute with an aura would be working on another foe. As my domie in villains I often end up thinking "whose doin the tanking here?" So all things played well within a team with a less survivable AT than a Tanker you can tank fine. Any solo orientated Tanker is almost of less to less use than a scrapper to support sets of a team. As my blaster I have to lower my DPS to control what aggro I get.
He will honor his words; he will definitely carry out his actions. What he promises he will fulfill. He does not care about his bodily self, putting his life and death aside to come forward for another's troubled besiegement. He does not boast about his ability, or shamelessly extol his own virtues. - Sima Qian.
Personally I dont take isolated cases as the STF as above as indicitive of anything.
Subtle changes can tip the balance. But it could just as easiliy have been you *didnt* need to come down to fight LR, because the empath had an extra sonic attack. Or, the TF could have failed because you took an extra attack or two instead of tough/weave, and couldnt handle the punishment you were taking.
Ultimately, "Pure breed" ATs of any type are more useful than hybdid breeds in big teams - ON AVERAGE. Of course, it depends on rest of team setup.
Personally, I think hybrids are fine. I think trying to fit a square peg in a round hole (e.,g. A pure Skranker) is unsatisfactory.
I find that calling a tanker a scranker is just an excuse to pkay a tanker badly. It doesn't really matter what kind of build they have, as long as they can control aggro. A tank that doesn't control aggro is not an asset to any team. Virtually any AT could replace them and improve team performance.
[ QUOTE ]
Personally, I think hybrids are fine. I think trying to fit a square peg in a round hole (e.,g. A pure Skranker) is unsatisfactory.
[/ QUOTE ]
Im a T A N K, not a "Hybrid", not a scranker, not a "semi-tank", not a cross-breed, not a "B*stard tank" (im certain that particular word wouldnt get across the filter, but its totally valid in the context and applicable)
There are Defensive tanks, which are the ones unable to solo.
There are Offensive tanks, which are the ones unable to team (well, at least in the role as Aggromanagment) and are the ones who usually get labeled "Scrankers" which is used in a derogatory manner.
And then there are Balanced tanks, which is the category I like to put myself in.
It dont matter if you try to gloss over with that in your mind, "hybrids are fine" and that you dont have anything agaisnt them and that they fill a certain role. You have already made your opinion clear when you choose to use a word like "hybrid", we are still not good enough for you to warrant the title "Tank".
UNION
Officer Cuffz lvl 50 Inv/Nrg Tank
Badge lvl 50 dwarf/human Peacebringer
Dark Air lvl 50 Ice/Cold Corruptor
Ayre lvl 50 Storm/Elec Defender
Total Cat: @Officer Cuffz
"When I say interview, I mean engage in combat and defeat..." -Laura Brunetti, on how to deal with Warriors.
What makes a tank is the idiot behind the keyboard.
It's simple, the build doesn't matter, what does matter is how well that player keeps aggro. They can make a tauntless tank with no aura for all it matters as long as they're holding that aggro. Such bloody pointless and ridiculous classifications people come up with, there's a good tank and a rubbish tank, and that's a split based on how well that player is doing.
Chairman of the Charity of Pain; accepting donations of blood and guts.
Prophet of the Creamy Truth; "If it's empty, fill it with cream."
Not in reply to anyone directly:
Tanking is about taunt control. Few get properly into taunt control. Taunt controlling is rather selfless and out of selflessness can come survivability because with it sometimes even half the shields you have are more than enough (thats why scrappers can tank almost any AV as well). Teams as always, are expected to have to try to work together.
People have to gain experience. I just throw books at those that don't care for strategies.
He will honor his words; he will definitely carry out his actions. What he promises he will fulfill. He does not care about his bodily self, putting his life and death aside to come forward for another's troubled besiegement. He does not boast about his ability, or shamelessly extol his own virtues. - Sima Qian.
[ QUOTE ]
Tanking is about taunt control. Few get properly into taunt control. Taunt controlling is rather selfless and out of selflessness can come survivability because with it sometimes even half the shields you have are more than enough (thats why scrappers can tank almost any AV as well). Teams as always as expected have to try to work together.
[/ QUOTE ]
I throw Taunt out there non-stop simply because I find the animation hilarious in combination with a drawn axe. 
Chairman of the Charity of Pain; accepting donations of blood and guts.
Prophet of the Creamy Truth; "If it's empty, fill it with cream."
As much as I'd like to agree with you, a tauntless tank with no aura would be pretty rubbish at holding that aggro, and ive got the scars to prove it from some pick up groups..
(still, i made more xp than debt, and i got it faster than soloing, just irks me that i had to adapt my playstyle so much that I as a defender only could use single target attacks and not one of my primaries)
:/
I would like to emphasize that my previous post was not about the value of the various kinds of tankers and their worth, but rather how we choose to label and classify them.
Imagine the kind of flak I'd get if I went over to the defenders forum, posting a build of a Empath with all the primaries, only one blast, and the rest of the build Travel powers, + recall for corpse retrival, Medicine pool for a extra rez, stealth for less aggro and so on.
If I then suggested that the proposed build was the only way to build a proper defender and all other were "lesser"...
I'd get torn limb from limb...
UNION
Officer Cuffz lvl 50 Inv/Nrg Tank
Badge lvl 50 dwarf/human Peacebringer
Dark Air lvl 50 Ice/Cold Corruptor
Ayre lvl 50 Storm/Elec Defender
Total Cat: @Officer Cuffz
"When I say interview, I mean engage in combat and defeat..." -Laura Brunetti, on how to deal with Warriors.
[ QUOTE ]
I am thinking of respecting my old Tank or maybe start over all together but it's one thing that has made me hesitate; the lack of teams these days.
Why that is, is a discussion best suited for another thread........ (snip)
[/ QUOTE ]
Presenting something as a fact which it isn't (or at least debatable) and then telling the discussion should be somewhere else isn't nice.
Tanker are the best at team making. Put in some effort and lead your own. Lots of people are whining about lack of teams while I often see multiple people in a zone asking FOR a team, just not wanting to form that team. Start with 3-4 people, it should be easy. Tells from people wanting to join should be flowing in. Not every team HAS to start of with 8 people you know? If you lack teams, go and make your own, be nice, be friendly be skillful and invites will start flowing in.
I changed 3 of my 4 tankers to a more focused offensive build. Including a inv tanker where i dropped the auto powers (the 7% ones) as i could free up 3 more powers to put in the offensive side. No more tough/weave, but Aid other/self instead. Solo i face 3-4 mobs max, so slapping 2 down and keep 2 busy in the air/knocked i can heal myself, something in teams somewhat harder (im axe, i dont have a great aoe controller). Added i dropped taunt, i dont need it anymore.
My fire is still all round, great defences but way more slotting into the offensive side. Still have all the basics of a fire tanker, my secondairy is nrg so was bit easier to pick all powers.
My WP is still too low to judge the effect in teams, although it quite differ from my original all defensive build.
If friends/people need a tank, i got my granite, the others i rather solo, fighting in my own speed and own risks. Its like the villian side, its not uncommon i'm with a handfull of people in PI or RWZ (as the rest in PI is hidden.. lol).
Sadly people forgot the awsome power of sonic defenders (followed by trollers), i'm better off solo.
50)Sinergy X/(50)Mika.
(50)MaceX/(50)Encore
Sign the petition, dont let CoH go down! SIGN!
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I am thinking of respecting my old Tank or maybe start over all together but it's one thing that has made me hesitate; the lack of teams these days.
Why that is, is a discussion best suited for another thread........ (snip)
[/ QUOTE ]
Presenting something as a fact which it isn't (or at least debatable) and then telling the discussion should be somewhere else isn't nice.
Tanker are the best at team making. Put in some effort and lead your own. Lots of people are whining about lack of teams while I often see multiple people in a zone asking FOR a team, just not wanting to form that team. Start with 3-4 people, it should be easy. Tells from people wanting to join should be flowing in. Not every team HAS to start of with 8 people you know? If you lack teams, go and make your own, be nice, be friendly be skillful and invites will start flowing in.
[/ QUOTE ]
Yeah but I wanted this discussion to be about defenisive or offensive tankers. Not about if there is few teams about these days or why that is. So doing that just prevented the thread from getting hijacked from the subject I brought up.
I would gladly see a discussion about teams but not just in this thread.
Personally, I don't think there is any Wrong/Right build, only opinions around that issue, and your opinions will always depend on how you like to play.
I have teamed with a superb stone Tanker who could hold aggro for whole rooms and would herd them to a kill point everytime with ease. Yes he was excellent at Tanking but I was bored stupid by the "you wait here" play style.
I also teamed with an Ice/Ice Tanker who tended to ue Punchvoke/Skranker tactics more often. The team still functioned well around his style even if we did come closer to some face plants than on the other team. For myself I loved the more dynamic style and I had much more fun.
Given the above, in response to the OP, I would advise, stop trying to anticipte what will/will not be "popular" in the game. Its not posible to do. "You can please some folks, all of the time or all folks some o the time but you will never please ALL the folks ALL the time".
Forget everyone else and, instead, just build the character you think you will enjoy playing. Hell, if you find later on that you want him to focus differently in his style there are alays respecs available. 
Well i'm still pretty new to tanking, but I found a few inf, so ile put them in.
My WP/ tank loves a nice tight group. Helps him survive when he as lots around him. Corner pulling just one mob at a time seems to work great at the moment, at least, when it can be done. Otherwise i just taunt and run in. A nice tight bunch around me makes me happy, and then the team can take them out freely. I don't herd several groups, just one, so it keeps it fairyly dynamic, and makes me feel all tanker like cos I stood there and took lots of damage, though didnt myself deal an aweful lot.
As to the scranker - tanker thing. For me a scranker is a tauntless/damage aura tanker who focuses more on damage than aggro management, and relies more on punchvoke to control aggro, mostly by smacking the bosses etc around. A 'pure breed' tank I guess is one that takes tough and weave and all their defences very early, and then gets their later attacks. Fair enough, if you can make either type work for you, great.
For my, on my WP, im taking a lot of my defences early, and only have a few attacks, but am planning on taking more attacks later. For now, i just wanan be able to survive and add what damage I can, but as long as as much as possible is on me, I feel like i'm doing my job even if I aint a powerhouse of damage yet.
As for the soloing issue, thats what alts are for. Get solo-capeable alts, lowbies, vill alts etc. If I cant find a team for my lvl 14 tank, ile try and find one for my lvl 24 defender, or my scrapper etc. Can usually find a team for one of them, or just go on a soloing toon and play them for a bit.
While I know tanks can and do solo, its not a toon I particually want to solo, so am not building him to be a solo toon.
Guess it all comes down to what you wanna do, and how you wanan do it.
There's only really a few instances where I'd be able to justify a "Scranker" build. And the main one is someone who wants to have a melee damage-dealer character but doesn't want to do smashing/lethal damage.
So, likely a Fire/EM tanker or Fire/Fire Tanker. Such toons are often just as damaging as Scrappers, so as long as any teams they join know that the toon is NOT primarily an aggro magnet, I don't see any issue with it.
On "Hybrids", frankly I don't see how "dedicated" or "pure" tankers would ever be more useful to team situations than a well-played and well-built hybrid. Other than a few very specialised instances such as Hamidon raids or "tanking LR without support". Example: a /SS with the option to switch between perma-rage and full-defensive modes depending on team setup is simply more useful than one that can only do one or the other.
I always pick Inv as scranker/tanker/hybrid example, taking every single power of the Inv set, add tough/weave, medicine, fitness, speed, SJ, energy pool (FA, beam, conserve), i dont think you have much slots left to take any 'hybrid' powers.
Dropping medicine/weave and pop in few more attacks, tend to go more hybrid.
Dropping tough, taunt, auto resist powers, unstop maybe and taking more attacks would tend to be more of a scranker (basicly by having resist numbers of a inv scrapper).
Some sets are just too difficult to be both great tanker as a fast-solo-scranker, like a inv/DB or a WP/fire. (without taking IO's to compensate lacks).
Then again, does it mather?
50)Sinergy X/(50)Mika.
(50)MaceX/(50)Encore
Sign the petition, dont let CoH go down! SIGN!
Well in INV's case you don't need Medicine, and you definately don't need LBE/Conserve power. In fact, I respecced out Conserve Power not so long ago to stick Resist Energies back in on my INV/SS.
I'd be hesitant to drop Tough/Weave or Hasten, as they add so much to the sets... but Medicine is strictly optional, especially with a +Defense build with capped S/L resists and a Perma Dull Pain setup.
INV is really just down to Dull Pain + Invincibility + Tough Hide, plus UY/TI/RPD and Unstoppable. Factor in an AoE and Taunt and you're good to go. Then with SS/ all you need to be a "Hybrid" is Rage and KO Blow!
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[ QUOTE ]
There's only really a few instances where I'd be able to justify a "Scranker" build. And the main one is someone who wants to have a melee damage-dealer character but doesn't want to do smashing/lethal damage.
So, likely a Fire/EM tanker or Fire/Fire Tanker.t can only do one or the other.
[/ QUOTE ]
Ok, now this comment interests me. i am a total novice when it comes to tankers as I have never quite been able to get my head around the At whenever I have tried to play one.
I currently have a Fire/EM tanker at around level 8 and waay down on my play priority list. I chose those powers more for character concept than eficiency and have been a bit worried by the fact that it seems to be a very rare combo and I have fond no remotely current guides at all to the mix either here or in the USA.
Toy have highlighted it as a Skranker set and I would e interested in knowing why you say that and how you see the stes supporing that.
I realise that would be OT so would be really appreciative if you started another thread or PMed me with yor views on this.
Fire/EM is probably the best scranker or "scrapping tanker" set for a few reasons.
The first is that /EM's damage is extremely high, and concentrated on single target 'spike damage' attacks. This lends itself to taking on small numbers of tougher opponents rather than larger groups of weaker opponents. Fire/ also has Firey Embrace, a "second Build Up" which further increases this damage output. EM's most powerful attack damages you each time you use it... which is no problem with Healing Flames.
The second is that Fire/ possesses a good range of mitigation, but nothing that increases with the number of enemies around you (Ice, INV and Willpower all do). You have good resistances, an endurance drain, and finally Healing flames. Healing Flames gives you considerable survivability and drastically lowers downtime... but it doesn't raise your HP like DullPain/Hoarfrost/etc. so you are vunerable to heavy "Alpha Strikes".
Finally, Fire/ has no autohit taunt aura. This makes it fairly poor at holding aggro against very high level enemies. It also has a few mez holes, Immobilisation and Knockback protection being amongst them.
So Fire/ can easily face a wide range of damage types but is generally better versus fewer foes than versus many foes. And /EM is best at fighting fewer opponents, and has VERY powerful spike damage that can be boosted further with Firey Embrace. Combined, they produce a character that will survive best against small groups of opponents and can output a large amount of single target damage in a short amount of time.
The same reasons also make it a good choice for PvP combat, since /EM damage is rarely resisted and Fire's Heal and high resistances work in its favour against most other players. Also, the traditional power pool choices for a Fire/ (Fitness obviously, Leaping to cover the mez holes, Speed to decrease the recharge on Healing Flames) are also typical choices for PvP melee toons (SJ/SS + Hasten + Fitness) so you will find a lot of Fire/EMs being rolled for PvP combat, where they will be mainly Damage dealers rather than Meatshields.
I am thinking of respecting my old Tank or maybe start over all together but it's one thing that has made me hesitate; the lack of teams these days.
Why that is, is a discussion best suited for another thread.
However, it becomes an issue IMHO when it comes to tanks, the most team oriented powerset. (Well, there is defenders but since all tank powersets are optimised for teams while it is possible to make an egoistical defender I at least think tanks are more team oriented.)
My old tank was completetly oriented on taunting and holding agro which meant she worked well in a team but was completetly rubish at soloing. Now with the noticable lack of teams it begs the question. Is the old fashion tank just that, old fashioned? And ist the scranker the new boy on the block?
Sure it won't do as well in teams but then it will be able to do well those long streaches of game play when there is no teams around.
So should you make tanks or scrankers?