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It's been a long time since I've felt then in game...lost when they decided to put a herd cap on it.
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This.Herding was one of the great moments you could have as a tanker.
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No it wasnt.
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Maybe not for you Hammer but herding was the main reason why I made my first tank back in i3 (possibly i4) and I more or less havent played that tank since they introduced ED/GDN and the aggrocap. Herding is definately some of the most fun I had/have in this game.
Also...bring back stacking mobs! I'm sure Nightbringer wants to herd an entire map...and then consequently killing himself with Energy Transfer because of stacked mobs 
SingStar:
"Extremists LOVE to fish to get us annoyed so we break the forum rules."
CRACK68:
"The origin of life wasn't planned either, should all life be declared a bug and wiped out?"
Lionsbane:
"You know me.Ever the realist"
They could make a no XP version of a dreck map that has wakened mobs to give the same Pre ED effect within which people could herd and smash to the hearts content just like in the old days.
*Counts the seconds that would get old*
Oh wait just use greys but with aggro cap removed in the mission!
He will honor his words; he will definitely carry out his actions. What he promises he will fulfill. He does not care about his bodily self, putting his life and death aside to come forward for another's troubled besiegement. He does not boast about his ability, or shamelessly extol his own virtues. - Sima Qian.
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It's been a long time since I've felt then in game...lost when they decided to put a herd cap on it.
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This.Herding was one of the great moments you could have as a tanker.
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No it wasnt.
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Maybe for you not but i can name you a ton tankers from i3 that left the game due to aggro cap or stopped playing their tanker again due to this aggro cap nonsense.
I still think they should put a pre ED week on test, jsut so oldies can go back and relive the experience and maybe newbies can go in and see what the oldies are on about.
i agree that taunt limit should be lifted... Was speakin with some in game mates who reckon a Unique Taunt IO thats lifts cap maybe or something! i just want to Herd again 
"We're not tools of the Government or anyone else...
Fighting was the only thing, the only thing I was good at...
But atleast...I always fought for what I believed in!" (Gray Fox)
@Captain Paragon EU @Captain Paragon.
If you recall the reason that the limit was put, you will understand why you'll not see something like that again...
Also the challenge to battle with the cap, is a motivation by itself.
I'd have to agree with saxtus really. For guys who know how to tank and could cope with the huge influx of critters it would be fun, but imagine those poor newbies trying to clear out Atta's cave. *shudders*
At the level of Atta's you cant even speak about 'tankers', just scrappers with a bit more HP. Willpower makes an interesting change to this though 
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(50)MaceX/(50)Encore
Sign the petition, dont let CoH go down! SIGN!
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I still think they should put a pre ED week on test, jsut so oldies can go back and relive the experience and maybe newbies can go in and see what the oldies are on about.
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Personally would love to see this happen...perhaps create another test server with i3 on it? That would be awesome!
@Captain Solaris
Guild of Extreme Heroes "Strength is in Unity"
Where IH was a toggle, burn didnt cast fear, no caps... where even Full auto did awsome damage 
Maybe idea for the 5year anniversery?
50)Sinergy X/(50)Mika.
(50)MaceX/(50)Encore
Sign the petition, dont let CoH go down! SIGN!
Releasing I3 with so many "server-deadly" bugs already known to public, is like begging the devs to postpone the release of new features and concentrate on re-starting test server every 10 minutes.
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Where IH was a toggle, burn didnt cast fear, no caps... where even Full auto did awsome damage
Maybe idea for the 5year anniversery?
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You mean I could herd with my regen again? That was the only challange she ever had
"Well, they found my diary today.
They were appropriately appalled
at the discovery of the eight victims
They're now putting it all together.
Women wrapped in silk
with one leg missing
Eight legs, one body, silk,
spider, brilliant!"
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If you recall the reason that the limit was put, you will understand why you'll not see something like that again...
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I dont really recall but if it was for powerleveling that is one of the most epic fails of the devs with this games.
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Also the challenge to battle with the cap, is a motivation by itself.
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You cannot battle the cap. What motivation.You can herd 17 mobs thats it.A tank wont even blink with this.There is no stress put towards the tank AT within PvE whatsoever imho.
Breaking the cap alone is not possible and thats about it.
Also with the introduction of i9 the devs should have considered to revise aggro cap since the AT capabilites can reach those of pre ED. The devs should have considered to lift the aggro cap OR introduce enhancements that lift it.It's not rational to declare that ED was made with the vision of introducing i9 that would allow us to achieve pre ED and now that there AT's running with full IO sets not to be able to act like pre ED as tankers. What is the point of me having a full IOed tanker for PvE when i can herd aggro cap and go afk while the mobs try kill me.
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Also the challenge to battle with the cap, is a motivation by itself.
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You cannot battle the cap. What motivation.You can herd 17 mobs thats it.A tank wont even blink with this.There is no stress put towards the tank AT within PvE whatsoever imho.
Breaking the cap alone is not possible and thats about it.
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No no! You got it all wrong!
Let me quote what the great BurningFist said a year ago:
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I'm saying that the aggro cap requires teams to be adaptable to changing situations, whereas before the aggro cap was introduced it was all to often about repeating the same situation ad nauseum.
Unpredictable fights = fun. Tanker locked aggro = tedium.
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I couldn't agree more.
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Also the challenge to battle with the cap, is a motivation by itself.
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You cannot battle the cap. What motivation.You can herd 17 mobs thats it.A tank wont even blink with this.There is no stress put towards the tank AT within PvE whatsoever imho.
Breaking the cap alone is not possible and thats about it.
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No no! You got it all wrong!
Let me quote what the great BurningFist said a year ago:
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I'm saying that the aggro cap requires teams to be adaptable to changing situations, whereas before the aggro cap was introduced it was all to often about repeating the same situation ad nauseum.
Unpredictable fights = fun. Tanker locked aggro = tedium.
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I couldn't agree more.
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wow i made that topic!
edit: also realised i made some pretty stupid points 
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No no! You got it all wrong!
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I got it wrong if i was talking one year ago 
I am talking now so not really
This is all good and year ago i would agree.But this is not the case right now. I9 changed the game a lot and the capabilites of AT's.I dont think a year ago i think now. And right now AT's/teams/SG's that take full advantage of the game at its current state have no problem what so ever within the game from a PvE point of view. Because yeah the devs gave us ED and at the same time made sure that aggro is capped and AoE is capped so you dont get in deep water with halved powers but at i9 they started giving the powers they cut back with ED slowly back and forgot to give us back some kind of added difficulty.
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I'm saying that the aggro cap requires teams to be adaptable to changing situations, whereas before the aggro cap was introduced it was all to often about repeating the same situation ad nauseum.
Unpredictable fights = fun. Tanker locked aggro = tedium.
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And i really dont agree with the solution to this statement.The devs made the dumb move of not introducing aggro factors to healing and other powers in PvE and they put themselves in this situation.
Introduce aggro to all heals from support AT's,introduce fast generating aggro from AoE's and spike attacks and remove the aggro cap and AoE cap.Also add one more or two difficulty settings that will spawn even more mobs or harder mobs.Then you will see what is fun and what takes skill.CoX PvE atm as it is aint no rocket science.Its really easy to do decent even with gimped builds in teams.
Yeah the tank will be able to herd but once the first spike heals are needed and the first AoE's land then a lot of tactics and skill will be required.Not to mention invention sets might actually have some use.
Devs were clear about inventions: You don't have to use them, they aren't balance breakers.
What makes you think that inventions introduced so enormous changes that, one year after, we are close to pre-ED era?
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Devs were clear about inventions: You don't have to use them, they aren't balance breakers.
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Ehm.ED was introduced because according to the devs players were so powerful that there was nowhere to go from there and nothing to achieve.ED was introduced witht he vision of giving the players back this power through achievements/rewards (aka Inventions)
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What makes you think that inventions introduced so enormous changes that, one year after, we are close to pre-ED era?
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First of all i was here Pre ED so i have a comparison and a pretty clear view.Second of all i have 8 toons with Full IO's including a Tank which allows me to compare Pre ED,post ED with SO's and post ED with IO's. When you manage to achieve perma hasten,perma Elude,perma AM,almost perma Auras,perma adrenaline boosts,Fortitude that has a 12 second recharge which allows to effectively fort not 8 but 10 people and in our case perma dull pain,ED like recharges on healing flames and taunt/attack cycles then yeah thats pretty enormous change and its close if not a lot similar to pre ED,and i still take into account that not all sets of IO's have been introduced into the game.When the epic IO's introduction is complete in next issues then yeah we will be really close if not prolly exactly to pre ED figures.
The devs gave back and are still giving back pre ED abilites of powers but they are forgetting to give something to allow us put them to use.
Besides PvP there is no other area within the game where AT's are stressed with IO's. Hell even with SO's its quite easy.
Also fyi one year ago game was pretty much static with just SO's and it was 1 year or so after ED.
id have to agree with TG here. From th figures i have seen. The IO sets that are already available take most toons very close to pre ED. Saying that Nobody said we HAD to take the invention sets is just daft, and heres why, With i9, the value of inf went down dramatically, people who were just starting out in the game were earning millions of inf by lvl 12 and by the time they hit lvl 22 and were ready for SO's the challenge that used to be saving up for SO's was non existent. They took away one of the key challanges of the gme for new players by allowing anyone to be a millionaire within a matter of days of play. The challenge that was taken away was replaced with the challenge of getting io sets and slotting a toon with a good balance. So are you saying that the devs dont want us to take this as a challenge and jsut roll down easy street being happy with our SO's? when tommy one toon has 23 million inf and is laughing all the way to the bank because the rest of us arent keeping the rare recipes rare?
I dont know about the rest of you think but i was a bit miffed when i9 first came out because, as is always the case when new content comes in, people went nuts on it and the market was flooded with people paying stupid money for virtually nothing. This has now levelled out but the challenge that we used to face, of being able to afford the enhancements we needed to buy every 5 levels, has now completely dissapeared. Its only natural therefore that we take the IO sets. Besides which only an idiot would dangle a carrot in front of a donkeys nose and expect it to ignore it, in the same vein only an idiot would make it possible to make our toons uber and expect us not to want to do it.
Im not saying things should be back the way they used to be, but i think its entirely feasable to create another unique io that allows a tank to maybe double or tripple the aggro cap on that toon. I tell ya now, My tanks beiong able to taunt more then 17 would be anything except boring, The tank i used in this video has NO io's, and yet he coped with 17 +2 freaks with ease. Imagine what he would be capable of if i could be bothered to spend the money to io him fully. It would be nice to be able to at least get a challenge. 17 mobs that cant challenge me = tedium
Both of you forget two things about it.
1) To earn all those, you have to give up other things. For example, if your enhancement sets are low enough to allow you to exemplar, you don't get the full enhancement of what you was going to get with higher enhancements. If your enhancement sets are too high, you will have serious problems with exemplaring (TFs, Ouroboros, low level PvP zones etc). You can't expect everyone to have for example 2-3 kind of tankers and 2-3 kinds of empaths for every level range you need them!
2) What AM, AB and fort has to do with your tight tanker build? Or do you expect to always have one of your perma-AB friends around to cover you? You can't expect everyone that you team with to build their characters in a pseudo-preED form, it is an MMO after all... That confines you way more than my previous statement.
Why would u need to have several tanks for each level range? I use SO's until lvl 35 after which i set about gradually building my toons with 35-41 io's so that should i decide to wander into wb i keep the set bonuses. As for the lower pvp zones, you dont really need the set bonuses as its pretty easy to mak an SO'd toon strong in SC and BB.
I DO see your point Saxtus, but I was more referring to the upper spectrum of levels anyway, as until lvl 30 odd most toons are too lacking in powers to work at full potential. As for having an empath or rad around, definately not, i think TG was using that as an example of how the figures match up with Pre ED. Any tanker worth his salt is more then capable of managing the aggro cap on his own, Having an emp, rad or kin about merely speeds thing up a bit.
I know that with a unique enhancement to break the aggro cap, that it could cause problems if you were to exemp, but then this once again would solely rely on the tanker being careful, with the precep range of mobs being pretty low, as long as the tanker doesnt go nuts and start trying to bounce between three mobs as if he weren't exemped there wouldnt be a problem.
On the other hand i would have to agree with you that unfortunately a large amount of the population arent competent tankers. The amount of times ive been playing a blaster or scrapper and had some idiot making us wait for ten minutes while they try to gather enough mobs at a herd point becasue they dont know any other way of tanking, or worse still DDT's. I know that there would be a high percentage of idiots out there who would slot one of these enhancements and then not be able to cope, but then that would eventually encourage darwinism to kick in. One would hope so anyway.
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First of all i was here Pre ED so i have a comparison and a pretty clear view.Second of all i have 8 toons with Full IO's including a Tank which allows me to compare Pre ED,post ED with SO's and post ED with IO's. When you manage to achieve perma hasten,perma Elude,perma AM,almost perma Auras,perma adrenaline boosts,Fortitude that has a 12 second recharge which allows to effectively fort not 8 but 10 people and in our case perma dull pain,ED like recharges on healing flames and taunt/attack cycles then yeah thats pretty enormous change and its close if not a lot similar to pre ED,and i still take into account that not all sets of IO's have been introduced into the game.When the epic IO's introduction is complete in next issues then yeah we will be really close if not prolly exactly to pre ED figures.
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From my pov on my granite, i can pretty much say IO-slotting went beyond Pre-ED numbers. Ok my resist/def is somewhat lower, but having a nearly 60% recharge bonus, EE and rooted have more bonus then pre-ED could ever be slotted (ok maybe with HO's). I nulified the -recharge penalty of Granite, something that was plain inpossible alone pre-ED (my EE still has 90/90%ish recharge on its own).
50)Sinergy X/(50)Mika.
(50)MaceX/(50)Encore
Sign the petition, dont let CoH go down! SIGN!
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1) To earn all those, you have to give up other things. For example, if your enhancement sets are low enough to allow you to exemplar, you don't get the full enhancement of what you was going to get with higher enhancements. If your enhancement sets are too high, you will have serious problems with exemplaring (TFs, Ouroboros, low level PvP zones etc). You can't expect everyone to have for example 2-3 kind of tankers and 2-3 kinds of empaths for every level range you need them!
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What are we talking about here? Exemplaring? I thought this is about aggro cap.Who herds solo pre level 35?Almost noone and that goes for pre ED as well for the simple reason that there were no good missions to herd plus characters are not fully slotted by that level.Also its easy to slot with level 30 sets allowing you to be fully set from level 27-50.I slot all my toons with 35-40 and i am fully efficient for PvP and fully functional at levels 32+ Thats pretty much all the herding you can get.Dont tell me we are talking about breaking the aggro cap solo in Atta.
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What AM, AB and fort has to do with your tight tanker build?
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It has to do with you stating what makes me think that we can achieve pre ED values.
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Or do you expect to always have one of your perma-AB friends around to cover you?
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Eh?Have you even seen my tank?What AB friends i got a perma hoarfrost that brings me to perma 3k hitpoints a 20sec hibernation recharge a near perma 2x stack energy absorption and some really good regen recovery and res.Who said anything about needing support.The point is that this feels like a pre ED tank considering i can herd the aggro cap in a 6-8 man spawn and just go afk with hoarfrost on auto while i stand there with level 52 mobs (excluding psi mobs ofc).I dont need anyone to cover me which is kinda my point.
Which makes me conclude that you should first check out some builds with inventions in builder and what their capabilities are and then try and say that we are not close to pre ED.i11 will bring us one step closer to that and as i said the devs need to up the PvE game to align it with what has been introduced in the last few issues.An expand aggro cap enhancement that can go in taunt set and maybe one or two more levels of difficulty that will give IOed toons some sort of challenge.Otherwise the devs are in danger of ending up with a pre ED era of people being too powerful but this time with ED on.
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(TFs, Ouroboros, low level PvP zones etc)
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After reading this i cant help it but laugh.What does ourobros and low level pvp zones have to do with aggro cap.Unless you wanna tell me you herd in pvp too.Also wth Ourobros has to do with aggro cap.Herding IS NOT for all missions you know and all situations.In fact sometimes it sucks. Like that time i heard you told team to wait went to herd and you got locked down at the other side of map and started yell to attack.
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You can't expect everyone that you team with to build their characters in a pseudo-preED form, it is an MMO after all...
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Yeah i know this is an MMO but you seem to fail to understand what we talking about here which i dont blame you since you dont really have the comparison between pre ED,ED era and IO's.
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unfortunately a large amount of the population arent competent tankers. The amount of times ive been playing a blaster or scrapper and had some idiot making us wait for ten minutes while they try to gather enough mobs at a herd point becasue they dont know any other way of tanking, or worse still DDT's. I know that there would be a high percentage of idiots out there who would slot one of these enhancements and then not be able to cope, but then that would eventually encourage darwinism to kick in. One would hope so anyway.
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This highlighted for emphasis.
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It's been a long time since I've felt then in game...lost when they decided to put a herd cap on it.
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This.Herding was one of the great moments you could have as a tanker.
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No it wasnt.