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And how could that every be justified?

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Maybe villains hurting innocents is justified then, it's all a matter of perspective

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Interesting. By your logic, the persecution of the jews then is just a "matter of perspective"? I think you'll find that there are some things which are so undeniably wrong (what a lot of people call evil) that a presentation of the facts combined with an understanding of human rights will make that wrong-ness apparant. Luckily for you there are other people prepared to fight that 'wrongness' for you (eg our grandparents who fought in the second world war).

Welcome Dreamqueen.

Everyone else, STOP DRINKING THE WATER I think there must be something in it as you're all acting odd

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Maybe villains hurting innocents is justified then, it's all a matter of perspective

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Interesting. By your logic, the persecution of the jews then is just a "matter of perspective"? I think you'll find that there are some things which are so undeniably wrong (what a lot of people call evil) that a presentation of the facts combined with an understanding of human rights will make that wrong-ness apparant. Luckily for you there are other people prepared to fight that 'wrongness' for you (eg our grandparents who fought in the second world war).

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My grandparents didn't fight on the second world war. Spain didn't get that involved on that, and what is good or evil is entirely a matter of perspective, and depends on social acquired habits rather than on an 'universal truth'. That said, previous posts were not serious, so take a good breath and enjoy the sun

No - there are some things that are 100% right and 100% wrong - there are lots of shades of gray, but at either end there's still pure black and pure white

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Maybe villains hurting innocents is justified then, it's all a matter of perspective

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Interesting. By your logic, the persecution of the jews then is just a "matter of perspective"? I think you'll find that there are some things which are so undeniably wrong (what a lot of people call evil) that a presentation of the facts combined with an understanding of human rights will make that wrong-ness apparant. Luckily for you there are other people prepared to fight that 'wrongness' for you (eg our grandparents who fought in the second world war).

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My grandparents didn't fight on the second world war.

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Sorry - I was using "Our grandparents" as a generic example. I meant "the people who fought against the invading forces of Germany and it's allies in the second world war".
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...and what is good or evil is entirely a matter of perspective, and depends on social acquired habits rather than on an 'universal truth'.

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I prefer to steer clear of terms like "good" and "evil". What I am saying is that people have in-alienable human rights - murder is wrong, zrape is wrong, theft is wrong etc. Just because someone lives in a town where the general concensus is that zrape is alright, it doesn't actually make it right. If this were not the case then there would be no case in taking people to court. There would be no such thing as a criminal as everyone would just say 'from my point of view it's not a crime' and get away with murder.
Nonsense. Pure nonsense.

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No - there are some things that are 100% right and 100% wrong - there are lots of shades of gray, but at either end there's still pure black and pure white

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I'll tell you something that is 100% wrong - Burning someone with a Flamethrower for stealing a purse

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I'll tell you something that is 100% wrong - Burning someone with a Flamethrower for stealing a purse

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Yes thats very harsh

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No - there are some things that are 100% right and 100% wrong - there are lots of shades of gray, but at either end there's still pure black and pure white

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I'll tell you something that is 100% wrong - Burning someone with a Flamethrower for stealing a purse

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That all depends on what the villain was using during the robbery

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No - there are some things that are 100% right and 100% wrong - there are lots of shades of gray, but at either end there's still pure black and pure white

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I'll tell you something that is 100% wrong - Burning someone with a Flamethrower for stealing a purse

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That all depends on what the villain was using during the robbery

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Harsh language and threatening behaviour? It doesn't seem to matter to those Longbow goons anyhow, they seem to be of the shoot first ask questions later variety. I'm sure their true colours will show in the end...

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Just because someone lives in a town where the general concensus is that zrape is alright, it doesn't actually make it right.

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Actually it would, that's their consensus and we would not have any right to go there and tell them to live as we want them to live. It's up to them.

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If this were not the case then there would be no case in taking people to court. There would be no such thing as a criminal as everyone would just say 'from my point of view it's not a crime' and get away with murder.
Nonsense. Pure nonsense.

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Nope, because when someone is living in a country he is judged by that country's laws, not by individual points of vews. That's why laws (and punishments) are not the same on every country, and some thing maybe considered a crime in some countries and not even a fault in some others.

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Just because someone lives in a town where the general concensus is that zrape is alright, it doesn't actually make it right.

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Actually it would, that's their consensus and we would not have any right to go there and tell them to live as we want them to live. It's up to them.

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Actually, it's not - there are certain universal moral principles, and if a group of people or even a whole country is breaking them, then they have to be stopped.

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If this were not the case then there would be no case in taking people to court. There would be no such thing as a criminal as everyone would just say 'from my point of view it's not a crime' and get away with murder.
Nonsense. Pure nonsense.

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Nope, because when someone is living in a country he is judged by that country's laws, not by individual points of vews. That's why laws (and punishments) are not the same on every country, and some thing maybe considered a crime in some countries and not even a fault in some others.

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But there are certain crimes, like murder, for example, which are against the law of every country in the world.

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Just because someone lives in a town where the general concensus is that zrape is alright, it doesn't actually make it right.

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Actually it would, that's their consensus and we would not have any right to go there and tell them to live as we want them to live. It's up to them.

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If this were not the case then there would be no case in taking people to court. There would be no such thing as a criminal as everyone would just say 'from my point of view it's not a crime' and get away with murder.
Nonsense. Pure nonsense.

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Nope, because when someone is living in a country he is judged by that country's laws, not by individual points of vews. That's why laws (and punishments) are not the same on every country, and some thing maybe considered a crime in some countries and not even a fault in some others.

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I understand where you’re coming from with this. I’m not arguing that ‘our principles are better than other countries’ just because I think ‘we’ must be right. And you are right to say that we shouldn’t ‘go there and tell them how to live’, FOR THE MOST PART and in particular for small differences e.g. in America the death sentence is still in place in some states, and those states have decided for themselves what penalties are appropriate etc. etc.

But the system of laws we have developed in the western world, the common widely populated laws, are simply and obviously better than a law which states for example that a person must have their hand chopped off for stealing, or that stoning is an appropriate punishment for infidelity. For the most part countries which have these kinds of rules also have poor education, so that should be a big indicator. It implies that the country behaves like an abusive family, where the abuse is passed down cos it’s ‘always been that way’. Equality of the sexes, freedom of speech, the right to have a say in who governs you. These are basic human rights which should be available to everyone.

Secondly, (and really it’s an extension of the same comment) I’m not suggesting that we ‘go there and tell them to live as we want them to live’, you’re right – it’s up to them. But when it’s not up to them, when these archaic, outdated, medieval, dictator orientated laws are forced on a populace then those people deserve the chance to create their own future, ‘shrug off the shackles of oppression’ etc etc, insert rhetoric as you please! If a people are aware of their situation, are aware of the alternatives and have made an educated and free willed decision to live that way, then that is up to them, yes. But you’ll find those situations few and far between.

Wrong is wrong. Living with it doesn’t make it right. More than likely it just means they don’t know better.

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Just because someone lives in a town where the general concensus is that zrape is alright, it doesn't actually make it right.

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Actually it would, that's their consensus and we would not have any right to go there and tell them to live as we want them to live. It's up to them.

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Actually, it's not - there are certain universal moral principles, and if a group of people or even a whole country is breaking them, then they have to be stopped.

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I would agree on that if those principles were universal, which obviously aren't.

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If this were not the case then there would be no case in taking people to court. There would be no such thing as a criminal as everyone would just say 'from my point of view it's not a crime' and get away with murder.
Nonsense. Pure nonsense.

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Nope, because when someone is living in a country he is judged by that country's laws, not by individual points of vews. That's why laws (and punishments) are not the same on every country, and some thing maybe considered a crime in some countries and not even a fault in some others.

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But there are certain crimes, like murder, for example, which are against the law of every country in the world.

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And then again, many countries use murder as a form of 'justice', which is an oxymoron itself, isn't it?

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But the system of laws we have developed in the western world, the common widely populated laws, are simply and obviously better than a law which states for example that a person must have their hand chopped off for stealing, or that stoning is an appropriate punishment for infidelity.

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That's a subjective point of view, tho. I agree with you, of course, that those punishments are nonsense, but then again its an opinion of someone that has grown up in a western country and has bred those ideals. That doesn't mean that my opinion, or your opinion, of the opinion of those who defend those punishments is more correct. Chopping a hand off for robbing is mean, but send a robber to die in jail isn't?. Being stoned for infidelity is a monstruosity for our ideals, yet [censored] is a common and approved costume in some african and asian countries, and a guy is not less virtuous for doing that. Different cultures, different costumes, but trying and make every other people live like us is not different to what islamists do imo

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But when it’s not up to them, when these archaic, outdated, medieval, dictator orientated laws are forced on a populace then those people deserve the chance to create their own future, ‘shrug off the shackles of oppression’ etc etc, insert rhetoric as you please! If a people are aware of their situation, are aware of the alternatives and have made an educated and free willed decision to live that way, then that is up to them, yes. But you’ll find thoe situations few and far between.

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Stoning for infidelitity, chopping hands for robbing and even ablation is accepted by a whole majority on many countries, not 'forced in'. It may sound awful to our ears, but it's how they decide to live. We surely would't like them imposing their point of views on our lifestyle, would we?

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Wrong is wrong. Living with it doesn’t make it right. More than likely it just means they don’t know better.

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I think that saying that the culture and costumes of a country comes from ignorance when they are not our own is an example of ignorance itself. Wrong is wrong in some places, tho in others it may be right

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But there are certain crimes, like murder, for example, which are against the law of every country in the world.

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And then again, many countries use murder as a form of 'justice', which is an oxymoron itself, isn't it?

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That's still wrong though.

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Stoning for infidelitity, chopping hands for robbing and even ablation is accepted by a whole majority on many countries, not 'forced in'. It may sound awful to our ears, but it's how they decide to live.

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It doesn't just sound awful - it is awful - it's quite possible for an entire culture to be morally wrong.
And when that's the case, an effort needs to be made to change that culture.

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I think that saying that the culture and costumes of a country comes from ignorance when they are not our own is an example of ignorance itself. Wrong is wrong in some places, tho in others it may be right

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And there are somethings that are always right, even if a whole group of people reject them and call them wrong.

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Stoning for infidelitity, chopping hands for robbing and even ablation is accepted by a whole majority on many countries, not 'forced in'. It may sound awful to our ears, but it's how they decide to live.

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It doesn't just sound awful - it is awful - it's quite possible for an entire culture to be morally wrong.
And when that's the case, an effort needs to be made to change that culture.
call them wrong.

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That may be the case of our western culture tho, but we wouldn't listen. Thing is, one never knows if it's his own culture the one that's wrong.

Actually, it's quite easy to tell is a culture is wrong or not, by the way it treats people - how much worth it puts on individuals and their freedom.

You lot are going to get nosebleeds up on those high horses of yours

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Actually, it's quite easy to tell is a culture is wrong or not, by the way it treats people - how much worth it puts on individuals and their freedom.

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Reason why I don't think ours is the best representative

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It doesn't just sound awful - it is awful - it's quite possible for an entire culture to be morally wrong.
And when that's the case, an effort needs to be made to change that culture.


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This is how wars start.

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It doesn't just sound awful - it is awful - it's quite possible for an entire culture to be morally wrong.
And when that's the case, an effort needs to be made to change that culture.


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This is how wars start.

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Unfortunately, yes. But it's not the only way to change a backwards culture.

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You lot are going to get nosebleeds up on those high horses of yours

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My horse is an average size

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Actually, it's quite easy to tell is a culture is wrong or not, by the way it treats people - how much worth it puts on individuals and their freedom.

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Reason why I don't think ours is the best representative

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Well, it's currently the best one available - by some distance too - but there's still plenty of room for improvement