Do defenders get a raw deal with missions?
By
Avalanche_EU,
Posted on: 2007-08-22 05:09 in Defenders
Try to form a team on your own by inviting people slightly lower lvl than you, and say that you are doing your missions.
Or solo 'em on heroic.
You can leave a mission until it's a level or two old if it has a tough boss or an EB in it, but realistically if my Sonic/Elec defender with only two attacks could solo his way through Croatoa, anyone can do it!! 
Shivans help a lot versus those EBs mind you... you'll start getting a few on DE/CoT/Nemesis arcs soonish.
Basically, the OP is right. It is quite hard for a defender to get to do their own missions. On the bright side, it usually means you're running missions higher than you are, which means a lot of xp.
If you don't like this, try some of the remedies mentioned above.
I dont really mind it, like you said im running missions higher than normal.
I just wanted to know what other people think about it and what they do. Lol guess I have to start getting used to making teams again lol
To share my view, I've done just a few of my missions on the way to 50 with my kin/son def. And the ones I did, I either did solo, in duo with a SK'd friend or just because I put the team together...
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To share my view, I've done just a few of my missions on the way to 50 with my kin/son def. And the ones I did, I either did solo, in duo with a SK'd friend or just because I put the team together...
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Looks like its a standard thing with def's then. Does anyone know if other AT's seem to have this too?
IMO it's because when teams are struggling, or people are making up a team you can usually make up for a lack of damage with a Kin, or make up for a lack of control with debuffs etc. Defenders are in high demand because they're THE team AT, I've been in teams with 4 or more defenders and they just absolutely steamroller'd missions, with no tanks, no scrappers, just blasters, controllers and 4 defenders.
Defiant 50's
Many and varied!
@Miss Chief
Yes, I think it is somehow connected to defenders being a team AT and one that can usually handle higher opponents on top of that. A tanker usually feels the pain when mobs are a little bit too high, a controller will find his control reduced in effectiveness, scrappers and blasters will lack damage and take too much damage. But defenders? Most heals and buffs work just fine, debuffs will still be good enough and their damage... Well, most teams don't hire defenders for their blasts. So, I guess it's only natural that the AT with the biggest chance of getting a team of higher level than himself is a defender, and of course in that case your missions are not that attractive to other team members, so they won't get done.
But still, I can't see it as defenders getting a raw deal since it is basically your own choice if you accept team invites from people several levels higher than you or if you'd rather have your own missions done in an even-level team.
If it has eyes, you can blind it, if it has blood, you can make it bleed, if it has a mouth, you can make it scream.
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Yes, I think it is somehow connected to defenders being a team AT and one that can usually handle higher opponents on top of that. A tanker usually feels the pain when mobs are a little bit too high, a controller will find his control reduced in effectiveness, scrappers and blasters will lack damage and take too much damage. But defenders? Most heals and buffs work just fine, debuffs will still be good enough and their damage... Well, most teams don't hire defenders for their blasts. So, I guess it's only natural that the AT with the biggest chance of getting a team of higher level than himself is a defender, and of course in that case your missions are not that attractive to other team members, so they won't get done.
But still, I can't see it as defenders getting a raw deal since it is basically your own choice if you accept team invites from people several levels higher than you or if you'd rather have your own missions done in an even-level team.
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You're 100% right on everything, in my view! 
Just as an example,I was ina team earlier with 4 controllers, 3 defenders and a single solitary scrapper. man we were rolling through maria jenkins AV arc like it wasn't there. The number of debuffs, heals, controls, buffs and just plain chaos was a sight to behold. it was like 'another mob, wham, bang, pow, bang, pop, fizz, next mob.' it was brilliant!
Defiant 50's
Many and varied!
@Miss Chief
The bottom line is, Vigilance was a solution to a problem that did not exist. Vigilance helps Defenders on teams. Defenders on teams do not need help. What defenders needed was something that let them solo better.
Defenders might be team toons, and teaming can easily bring you to 50. But having NO solo ability still sucks. I mean, a defender can't even solo his own out-dated missions!
Corruptors have the same problem, to a lesser degree.
This is going offtopic but its a fact that Defenders got the short end of the stick when it comes to inherents. When inherents were put into the game, the devs had to scratch their heads long and hard before coming up with something that suited defenders. They came up with vigilance. Personally I think they might as well invent some kind of new inherent, preferably something related to damage that would help them in soloing. I dont find it strange having an inherent that concentrates on the secondary powersets, since thats what tankers have, gauntlet doesnt really touch their primaries for the most part.
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The bottom line is, Vigilance was a solution to a problem that did not exist. Vigilance helps Defenders on teams. Defenders on teams do not need help. What defenders needed was something that let them solo better.
Defenders might be team toons, and teaming can easily bring you to 50. But having NO solo ability still sucks. I mean, a defender can't even solo his own out-dated missions!
Corruptors have the same problem, to a lesser degree.
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That depends on the defender set. Radiation is easy to solo, Kinetic, Dark and Storm trollers are found easy buy some. But TA, FF, Empath and Sonic ones have little chance to solo.
Only way for doing self missions is forming teams. Otherwise you'll easily out date them and when you look back your only contact on the list is still Wincott.
Actually this is one of the reasons push me out of CoH. I deleted my first ever hero for no chance of solo-ability. And he's followed by many other defenders. Not that i'd trouble with finding teams, but you know sometimes you want to hang out alone. Want to complete simple missions like cape mission or hunt missions without dying once. Some can say i am not a good player so i couldn't handle aggro etc. Maybe they are right but hey, this is why i decide this game is not for me.
Have fun.
Some Defenders can solo OK, my trick arrow/pointy sticks can against certain mob types, but if something like oil slick not lighting happens (and it seems better since i10, just not completely fixed) then I'm pretty much screwed as that's half my damage gone straight away. my Kin/Rad can also solo OK on heroic and the one above that. Anything higher and she's dead meat though.
I suppose they had to give defenders something, and my TA defender makes full use of Vigilance by not having stamina. I notice it on my kin/rad as well, although not as much due to transference. my TA hardly has an end redux anywhere wlthough she does now have conserve power for those Emp Arrow moments.
So, to throw this open, give some ideas for a better Defender inherent? It has to be something that can be done within the game at the moment, and something that won't take hours upon hours to implement. A bit like the Defiance discussion that's gone on recently for blasters.
Defiant 50's
Many and varied!
@Miss Chief
That's what alts are for, Knightly.
I have several 'team-only' alts a couple who are 'solo-only' and one or two that I do both with; if I feel like a change of pace, I change alt. I suppose the trick is accepting this up front, and knowing which ATs are going to give you problems solo, if you insist of wanting to do all the content on a controller or defender whether teamed or solo, then you're making life difficult for yourself.
My Empath couldn't solo for toffee - still can't in fact - and was generally doing 'other people's missions' even in same-level teams, which was a cause of frustration. (That said, she did do some of her own, as I was teamed for the most part with friends, and XP isn't everything).
My solution to this was to shelve the Empath for a few months and level a Fire Tank virually solo all the way, getting to see all the content my Empath had missed, after that, I became a lot more relaxed about whose missions were done.
It's a lot easier now with mission sharing of course, which was an utterly strange concept (going by some of the replies) I amongst others suggested a long time ago.
I dont think defenders are that balanced. Controllers are the same in damage but have great control for complete effect mitigation to self or have pets for complete effect mitigation to self and almost similar defense sets and containment. Defenders get soft effect mitigation to self, weak blasts and vigilance is pants when solo. Not enough secondary damage makes up for it imo.
In teams many defenders are underacknowledged. Your missions seem never to be as important as many other peoples especially some bloke running the team. To see mission content id recommend the Tanker or Scrapper anyway but thats not for everyone, mostly as a defender running behind a bunch of players tidying up their unnecessary messes.
He will honor his words; he will definitely carry out his actions. What he promises he will fulfill. He does not care about his bodily self, putting his life and death aside to come forward for another's troubled besiegement. He does not boast about his ability, or shamelessly extol his own virtues. - Sima Qian.
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mostly as a defender running behind a bunch of players tidying up their unnecessary messes.
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Ohhh.. im gonna make a defender dressed as a french maid and call her 'mad'amme (the psycho cleaner!!)
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mostly as a defender running behind a bunch of players tidying up their unnecessary messes.
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Ohhh.. im gonna make a defender dressed as a french maid and call her 'mad'amme (the psycho cleaner!!)
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There was a heroine called French Maid which i had the honor of teaming once. 
@Sugar Rush;
Okay i know there is another possibilities but i want to solo (not easy but can solo) with "my" hero. I tried every possible combination i thought i can go on. Only Psy-knight is that nice and Devil's Chant was promising. But i can't see a point paying for a game i only enjoy 2 things in it other than my friends (whose are the reason i stayed this far in the game). I am playing DDO this days. I love its free style and solo friendly missions. At first i was thinking i will come back someday. But now i know i won't. Only place you will see me in spandex again is MUO if it will be different than CoH.
Any character, no matter of which AT, will not get their missions done in teams unless they take action to do so. Either suggest to the team leader that you have a nice mission close by, stay in the team until YOU get the star, or start your own team.
Or you could make a build that doesn't suck solo.
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Any character, no matter of which AT, will not get their missions done in teams unless they take action to do so. Either suggest to the team leader that you have a nice mission close by, stay in the team until YOU get the star, or start your own team.
Or you could make a build that doesn't suck solo.
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Problem with defenders is alot of the time you either end up with an offender or a pure team build. Finding asomething in between can be very difficult indeed sometimes. I think the only real offender possibilities are Kin, Rad primary, Dark primary and possibly Storm. Everything else is really geared towards team based gameplay. Having said that my Kin/Rad has a nice halfway house I think, but it could easily go further one way or the other. Less damage, more def debuff in irradiate for example.
Defiant 50's
Many and varied!
@Miss Chief
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Less damage, more def debuff in irradiate for example.
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Acc/Def Debuff/Tohit Bubuff HOs get round that choice quite nicely (and are pretty cheap on heroes).
You know I haven't even looked into HO's on any of my toons with any seriousness. Perhaps I shall. if I could drop an Acc I could take one of those HO's.
Defiant 50's
Many and varied!
@Miss Chief
Someone mentioned changing our inherent power from -end cost to something else. How about something like defiance but with mez resistance increasing as our health declines to the point of total immunity at 10%?
My problem soloing isn't really taking down the enemy it's just being perma-held (hate hate HATE Rikti mentalists) then slowly wittled down as I stand helpless having used up all my BF's
Isn't that then just as borked as Defiance for blasters currently is now? The problem with Defiance is that you can easily go from 50% health and no Defiance to dead and no defiance. That's one of the problems people say it has, it's great in the lower levels but at higher levels it's possible to be 2 shotted by bosses from about lvl 15 upwards if youre fighting +2's and one shotted not far upwards from that.
Defiant 50's
Many and varied!
@Miss Chief
Hi,
This is not meant to be a flame war or anything, just an honest question asking for your opinions.
I have been running my defender (rad/rad) for a while now and have noticed that my missions never usually get done. I admit that sometimes I get invited to a team thats slightly higher than me, but it feels like im missing out.
I am about the right level for croatoa missions, and I know that the end of arc/contact gives a huge xp bonus.
Does anyone else find that they never seem to get to do their missions or they never seem to come up?