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This whole tournament is exclusionary to the point of being ridiculous but since im not participating Ill leave comments at this.
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Please guys, rather less of this..it is neither a constructive argument, or helpful.
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I have to agree. Please, everyone, let's try to little more constructive with any criticism.
Thanks.
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Sure the tournament entry rules are restrictive (as any tournament run at lvl 50 would be) but let's not make this thing out to be something it's not... [/color]
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Well 3 different 50s is still a different story than just requiring one.. Its like the rules are made out from the presumption of everyone having unlimited amount of lvl 50 characters. Personally I wouldnt participate even if I had that third since rules would force me to play my tank which is not an option.
True, but my (poorly stated) point was that you don't need to be a PL'er to have 3 lvl 50's.
Defiant 50�s: Generalissimo, Righteous Bob, Splortch, Brutus Cayuga
Union 50's: Chimera Obscura, Diet Anthracite, Grim Proctologist, Puny Little Minion, Raging Bitumen
In Soviet Russia, mission farm you!
You certainly don't. Nor do you need to have 3 fotm toons to enter this tournament.
I'm going to be entering with an illu/emp, just to pwn all those fotm wannabes.
Try not to be so negative all the time Hammer, it's depressing 
Jupiter is slow looking into his notebook, but he always looks.
The [b]Retribution[/b] is coming.
[url="http://s76.photobucket.com/albums/j19/Valens_ii/"]Some of my toons[/url]
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this 2 melee only rule is still stupid, it really really is.. Please. May I say(again), there is little need for these types of comments if someone is brave enough to enter 3 melee class characters then I would applaud them as they ARE NOT anywhere near the top of the heap for duels. People are already entering what you class as 'weak builds'. Some of those that have entered these toons have said they have done so for the FUN aspect. Bravery? IMO people enter for the fun aspect
Whats a regen scrapper going to fo against a ice/rad/mace corr except fight bravely, whats a granite going to do against a rad troller? a rad/psi defender? a elec/kin defender (yes I know rooted has a level of end drain protection but certainly not eneough) and so on and so on. The examples you have chosen above are very specific examples, which could be argued either way depending on the melee AT you are talking about. For example the Kin/elec defender would stuggle against SR etc. For this reason, im not really considering such specific examples
Playing a squiahy sure is a different concept to melee but it doesnt change the fact that there may be pvpers who dont play squishies and as such cannoy enter and are excluded. Given that pvp is a rare commodity these days I would have presumed it was in the events best interests to be open to as many as possible. This is EXACTLY the feedback I am after. Indeed, it is my primary doubt about the current rule standings, and as such I agree it is definately worth taking this into account. Thankyou.
Right from the start you have made a bold claim that "Solo pvp skill includes being able to handle playing squishies too" Claim? I have been very careful to state that this is only my current feelings/opinion on the matter, and as such I am willing to listen to feedback , my question would be, why does it? I have stated my reasons in the threads above If a regen scrapper can take on a competant ice/rad, rad/psi, rad/sonic, ice/cold, ice/ice and win then they are worthy of being recognised for thier skills over an /EM blaster EM blasters undoubtedly are excellent in team pvp. However in duals, I can think of an awful lot of melee chars that would potentially have an upper hand or one of the myriad of rad builds.
Melee classes have built in survivability to an extent but this is more evident in high number pvp not duels.
IMO to say that squishies dont have "'room to manouevre'" in high level pvp is insanity, they can do everything a melee class can do but better really? please elaborate, without mentioning specific builds , what do they have over squishies? A few more HPs? A few? mez protection? Yes, certainly a bonus. Please don't forget damage resistance, defense, slows/stuns etc Squishies get all the BFs they can chomp along until they run out with the ability to smash a melee class to mush in half an attack chain Only very few exceptional circumstances of x squishy vs y melee is this the case. . Melee class is not an easy option, anything other than a SR or ice tank is going to be slowed and chain held to destruction and their damage mitigation is very easily took out of the picture. again stalk, I do feel this is a very arguable situation My Fire/Ta troller tormented ice/em tanks to the point of frustration on Union and even without the ability to slow the recharge of hibernate I could merrily kill them.
If you want to have only 2 melee builds accessable then you can only have 2 squishy builds available also, its only fair.
I applaud any attempt to increase pvp and I dont doubt that your only intention is to generate a good time by all but my feeling is that you are being exclusionary towards the brave souls who are willing to gimp themselves by entering 3 melee alts before the game has even begun. I can hear many pvpers who hear they drew the guy who entered 3 melee toons going "w00t!!!" and rubbing their hands with glee, using your example of Ice/EM tank, EM/elec brute, Ice/EM tank they would all fall at the hands of any well played rad, and one of the obligatory ice/rad trollers would hebitch man-slap all of them with hardly a sideways glance and even my incompetant fire/ta would make them cry.
*edit* oh and a mind/ff troller really would just stand there and laugh as they are tkd to helplessness and dominate bypasses their defences 
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All in all stalk, you made a very fair point about getting the numbers up. However, I completely disagree about melee sets being gimped AT ALL! Yes, there are some builds that trump them, no doubt, but hardly a huge number. Bearing in mind, this comp lets you pick some of your fights, allowing you a degree of control over whether or not you have to face an opponents AT you know you may struggle against.
Hammer, you have clearly stated your opinions on this tourney in both this thread and the original one started in April:
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- My worry was not having enough 50s in the first place.. let alone any toons good in pvp. . Thats what I meant by being exclusionary.
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In April:
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Sounds like a tourney for the grinders or PLers.. :/
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You currently have 6or7 level 30-35's ( from your sig ), I however have nowhere near that number. I have been playing the game for 2 years+ and have 4 level 50 toons. Hardly powerlevelling.
In May:
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This format is a nice idea overall but.. its just too restrictive in practise. Honestly my first thought was
that this was meant for the small ring of Union PLers only.
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Currently it's a 60:40 split in the sign up between Union
efiant. My real concern atm the moment is the French and German servers. I really could do with some help informing them.
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Also give some leeway to melee players like KS
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KS recently won the 2vs2 tourney using one of his trollers. KS has many 'squishy' toons, and plays them exceptionally well.
All in all, I get the fact you don't like the format. I have known about this since April.I understand you aren't going to enter, and I am sorry you are not eligable too. However, please may I request that you leave this thread to those players who are interested, who maybe would like rule clarification or are offering useful feedback on the event.
Thankyou
Finally, as you may have guessed, I am getting a little annoyed about the way certain people are deciding to voice their 'feedback'.
Ever since the first major tourney, S4, people have always argued their cases. In the recent 2 man team comp, that KS and LW won, I remember the outcry over the 'no travel powers' decision. Many argued that this would 'gimp' melee sets and give an advantage to those sets with holds/slows etc. To some extent they had a very valid point. I remember playing my scrapper in a practise match, being hideously slowed, and being predictably ganked. This didnt annoy me however, as I chose a different toon to enter with (and still got ganked in the event lol), however, despite the arguments many turned up and had a great time.
I understand questionning the rules is going to happen, and indeed, I have tried to encourage it in both the original 'feedback' thread and this one. What I am finding frustrating however is people voicing opinions without really explaining why.
- Yes, this tourney is restrictive regarding the number of toons and the level needed to enter. However, in the first thread (April) I had initially planned to have the bouts at 44, but it was from the feedback in the thread I decided to change this to 50.
-The max 2 melee rule, as I have stated, is not yet set in stone. This is primarily because it was not mentioned in the initial thread. KS and Stalks comments about it possibly limiting the numbers is a fair point, and is being considered. I do after all want as many people as possible to 'give it a go'!
Currently however, nobody has yet pm'ed me to say they wanted to enter 3 melee toons, could they enter etc, like I said for them to do, and yet some people seem set on highlighting any small potential flaw, followed by a further dismissal of the entire event in the thread.
I created the idea for this competition to try and revamp some pvp fun. Believe it or not lol! All I ask is, if you have an opinion, feel free to share it, but also try to offer a solution too ( an example being the 3melee vs 3melee stalemate )
Quote from KS:
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This competition isnt as Compettive as it sounds i know for one im not really bothered if i win im going to enjoy myself and see what talent and skill CoX has to give. Ill be watching all the fights and enjoying them and hopefully learning some new tatics from what i see.
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Quote Devilshot:
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Still don't mean you can't have fun though
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Sums it up nicely
It's a good opportunity to have some fun dueling not many people are playing to win I know im not 
thePhilosopher Martial Arts/Regen/Fire Scrapper
theRegulator Empathy/Energy/Soul Defender
Total Inertia Ice Blast/Kinetics/Psy Corruptor
Total Inferno Ice Blast/Thermal/Leviathan Corruptor
Well I could have (and did) write out a big quote pyramid dealing with the counters you made to my post but feel this pretty much what needs to be said.
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if someone is brave enough to enter 3 melee class characters then I would applaud them as they ARE NOT anywhere near the top of the heap for duels. People are already entering what you class as 'weak builds'. Some of into only 2 melee class characters when others do not have this restriction. SOME may have lots of fun those that have entered these toons have said they have done so for the FUN aspect. Bravery? IMO people enter for the fun aspect
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People may have more FUN playing the toons they want.
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All in all stalk, you made a very fair point about getting the numbers up. However, I completely disagree about melee sets being gimped AT ALL! Yes, there are some builds that trump them, no doubt, but hardly a huge number. Bearing in mind, this comp lets you pick some of your fights, allowing you a degree of control over whether or not you have to face an opponents AT you know you may struggle against.
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some of my wording may have been more curt than I had intended, I think I wrote it at like 3am or something silly, I'm lucky it came out semi coherently. Melee classes are not by themselves gimped but in top end pvp for them to win requires great skill as so very many pvp build squishies destroy them. I have elude down to a 20 second downtime only on my SR and I STILL wouldnt fancy my chances against many of the people who are signing up here even if I had 3 of them all the same. The number of builds that munch melee toons may not be huge but you can bet you will see lots of them in the event (rad mainly)
I certainly dont blame you for being annoyed, you are trying to organise something that there is precious little off in coh (pvp tourney) and all you seem to be getting is grief, I dont intend to cause you any headaches and am mainly devils advocating but as you seem to be of the mindset that melee toons are a little overpowered I am of the opinion they are all but useless in the face of serious competition even in the face of having optimised melee toons myself. Hell a ice/ice/mu dom beat my ice/em tank in arena and beat me well and logically speaking it should have been my match as /ice has no + acc power, but the slows stacked through my slow res and I burned up my bfs in no time flat and the nrg res in the mu shield is just enough to survive a chain and pop PB + aid self
If you want a 2 melee limit then keep it, its your tourney, but I would implore you to add on a 2 squishy cap also
**Acceptable "support" responses**
Its your fault
Its your computers fault
Its your ISPs fault
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Stalk, some fair points, to which ill reply shortly.
Meanwhile another point i forgot to mention, was what happens then if two players, with 3 melee toons each meet?
How do you overcome the ensuing stalemate?
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Its unlikely to be a stalemate unless you have 2 inv/war mace tankers fighting each other
*edit* well ok there are more silly sets that make it a snooze fest but same could be said if everyone entered bubblers and sat in pff which is possible with current rules
**Acceptable "support" responses**
Its your fault
Its your computers fault
Its your ISPs fault
I'm not going to sit here and argue about which takes more skill and diversity to play. We all know that melee and squishies have different pro's and cons and I don't think one requires greater skill to play then the other. However, I wouldn't place any rules based on MY opinions. Base them on facts - not opinions.
IMHO - if someone wants to sit there and go for a draw then let them. Thats their choice and their way of playing - up to them how they play even if other people think its boring its a valid tactic if they think they can pull it off. I seriously doubt anyone would bother doing this. Again, I wouldn't base any rules on MY opinion. Just facts.
I think a league would have been better than a cup, with 3 for a win, 1 for a draw and 0 for a loss. That way people are encouraged more to win than to draw.
If it turns out in the end that a spines/regen beats 99.9% and a spines/SR beats 99.8% and a katana/BS beats 99.7% and someone has all 3 - then just let them enter them. Not thier fault they saw great potential in those 3 and saw better then anyone else how those 3 chars could pwn at solo pvp. Good on them for having the insight.
As for khelds - the dwarf is not an inherent power and nor is light form. If you class them as melee for being able to get mezz protection from their powers, then you have to class everyone as melee as its possible to get 1 from acro. You would certainly have to class bubble defs/conts and anyone with the psionic epic as melee...which is clearly wrong.
@Sweet Chilli
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As for khelds - the dwarf is not an inherent power and nor is light form. If you class them as melee for being able to get mezz protection from their powers, then you have to class everyone as melee as its possible to get 1 from acro. You would certainly have to class bubble defs/conts and anyone with the psionic epic as melee...which is clearly wrong.
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Please go way back in the thread and read my repsonse to your earlier mention of this.
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BTW, I take it Khelds are counted as squishies as they have no inherent mezz protection.
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My bad. I had always thought of Dwarf form as having mezz protection. However, after checking, i realise this is not the case, and therefore Khelds will NOT be included in the max of 2 melee charachters.
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in fact ill save you the trouble
I thought you were being sarcastic, as dwarfs do have inherent mezz protection.
@Sweet Chilli
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I thought you were being sarcastic, as dwarfs do have inherent mezz protection.
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At the risk of going slightly off topic, is this really the case? I did ask a few of the guys about this the other day, and they said the dwarfs 'did'nt' have inherent mez protection!!
I am not doubting what you say is true, as I had originally thought this was always the case too. However it has been a while since i fought one in pvp ( last one was s4 praccy I think! ).
I beleive dwarf level of mez is the same as granite
**Acceptable "support" responses**
Its your fault
Its your computers fault
Its your ISPs fault
Dwarfs have -15.57 protection to status effects at level 50.
Which means it takes 4 mag 4 holds(cont, dom) to hold a dwarf which will detoggle it.
@Sweet Chilli
What about masterminds sitting in body guard. That's almost like PFF.
MM in bodyguard mode is nothing against a Kinetic Defender. Or is that just me? 
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MM in bodyguard mode is nothing against a Kinetic Defender. Or is that just me?
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they dont like thunderous blast too much either lol
Oh one other thing occured to me, your definition of a squishy (based on the kheld comments) is built in mez protection, well perma domination and as such perma mez protection is attainable as is perma controller mez protection with IOs
**Acceptable "support" responses**
Its your fault
Its your computers fault
Its your ISPs fault
I was under the impression that squishies are defined as ATs with HP levels set as Low at the AT selection screen (stalkers being the exception that proves the rule ).
@Rooks
"You should come inside the box... Then you'll know what I mean."
Just a quick thought I presume you have to use same build for each fight?
thePhilosopher Martial Arts/Regen/Fire Scrapper
theRegulator Empathy/Energy/Soul Defender
Total Inertia Ice Blast/Kinetics/Psy Corruptor
Total Inferno Ice Blast/Thermal/Leviathan Corruptor
I define squishies as something without a primary or secondary which offers regen, defense, resistance.
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When I was in defiant PD there was quite enough of talk about this tourney being meant for "fotm PLers".
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This format is a nice idea overall but.. its just too restrictive in practise. Honestly my first thought was that this was meant for the small ring of Union PLers only.
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I must have taken a wrong turn somewhere when I entered the tournament then
Union player? Nope.
PL'er? Nope - I solo most of the time so I hardly could be.
FOTM PvP'er? Nope - I PvP occasionally, rarely with a build that could be called a FOTM and always for fun.
Sure the tournament entry rules are restrictive (as any tournament run at lvl 50 would be) but let's not make this thing out to be something it's not...
Defiant 50�s: Generalissimo, Righteous Bob, Splortch, Brutus Cayuga
Union 50's: Chimera Obscura, Diet Anthracite, Grim Proctologist, Puny Little Minion, Raging Bitumen
In Soviet Russia, mission farm you!