I think Stone Melee is a great heavy hitter for ST damage, has the nice status effects and none of the downsides that Rage gives you.
"Well, they found my diary today.
They were appropriately appalled
at the discovery of the eight victims
They're now putting it all together.
Women wrapped in silk
with one leg missing
Eight legs, one body, silk,
spider, brilliant!"
Do you reckon if i hit Knockout Blow then Handclap it would knock acro, or would Handclap on its own manage that?
IIRC Acro doesn't contain stun protection, only hold and mag 100 knockdown. So Knockout Blow would likely do nothing, handclap however would knock it off
"Well, they found my diary today.
They were appropriately appalled
at the discovery of the eight victims
They're now putting it all together.
Women wrapped in silk
with one leg missing
Eight legs, one body, silk,
spider, brilliant!"
Yeah, Stone Melee is amazing 
but Hand Clap would knock off Acro and leave your squishie(s) of choice slowly staggering away from you waiting to be punched up into the air 
Both are good choices but as you said with the ability to stack Rage you get very good damage and accuracy. 
Sweeet, Hopefully then that will solve the acro problem then 
Cheers guys
But Knockout Blow has a held effect which is less than the stone's (magnitude 3 vs 4), but which is enough to knock off acro (-2 held), hasn't it ? ( http://coh.nofuture.org.uk/powersets/powersets.php )
I prefer the look and sounds of stone, but SS and stone seem to be able to held squishies...
Hey Hellghast m8 !
Lol this is a real old discussion, but wanna bet you are gonna take SS and are gonna use Footstomp
C yah online Bro
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Yeah, Stone Melee is amazing but Hand Clap would knock off Acro and leave your squishie(s) of choice slowly staggering away from you waiting to be punched up into the air
Both are good choices but as you said with the ability to stack Rage you get very good damage and accuracy.
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Seizmic smash is a mag 4 hold and will break acro every single time where KO blow will not, fault is also a targeted aoe stun AND knock up and is much better than hand clap. Stone melee has the highest burst damage for brutes untill energy melee gets ET.
Lets look at the 3 main ST attacks, SS has punch at 2.777, haymaker at 4.556 and KO blow at 9.889 giving a burst of 17.222 which is fired off in 4.93seconds. SM has stone mallet at 4.556, heavy mallet at 6.334 and seizmic at 9.886 which is 20.776 and fired off at 3.87 seconds. So stones ST chain is 17% more damaging and 12% faster firing
With stone melee you can juggle any boss/squishy to death with ease.
Cons of SM is end use and recharge but mixed IO triple aspects cures this entirely. The only pro for SS over SM is rage IMO.
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Yeah, Stone Melee is amazing but Hand Clap would knock off Acro and leave your squishie(s) of choice slowly staggering away from you waiting to be punched up into the air
Both are good choices but as you said with the ability to stack Rage you get very good damage and accuracy.
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Seizmic smash is a mag 4 hold and will break acro every single time where KO blow will not
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But acro is -2 knockback, isn't it ?
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Lets look at the 3 main ST attacks, SS has punch at 2.777, haymaker at 4.556 and KO blow at 9.889 giving a burst of 17.222 which is fired off in 4.93seconds. SM has stone mallet at 4.556, heavy mallet at 6.334 and seizmic at 9.886 which is 20.776 and fired off at 3.87 seconds. So stones ST chain is 17% more damaging and 12% faster firing
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Yes but with perma-rage, the calculation is more complicated than that, I think 
Argh, evil numbers!
And I've had a few times in PvP when Seismic Smash didn't break through Acro, but it is fun juggling people.
As mentioned, with Lightning Reflexes and Hasten Rage can be stacked, if only for 3 secs it's still cool!!
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Yeah, Stone Melee is amazing but Hand Clap would knock off Acro and leave your squishie(s) of choice slowly staggering away from you waiting to be punched up into the air
Both are good choices but as you said with the ability to stack Rage you get very good damage and accuracy.
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Seizmic smash is a mag 4 hold and will break acro every single time where KO blow will not
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But acro is -2 knockback, isn't it ?
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Lets look at the 3 main ST attacks, SS has punch at 2.777, haymaker at 4.556 and KO blow at 9.889 giving a burst of 17.222 which is fired off in 4.93seconds. SM has stone mallet at 4.556, heavy mallet at 6.334 and seizmic at 9.886 which is 20.776 and fired off at 3.87 seconds. So stones ST chain is 17% more damaging and 12% faster firing
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Yes but with perma-rage, the calculation is more complicated than that, I think
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acro is mag 100 res to kb, will stop the mag 3 hold of KO blow but doesnt stop a mag 4 hold ever though, or a mag anything stun. Seizmic smash holds bosses with one hit.
And rage does nothing for burst damage, thats DPS so has no bearing on my calculations at all, pvp burst is king. PvE you want DPS if damage is your thing, my experience with mobs being unable to attack and my personal preference puts the knock UP of SM ahead, but thats just preference
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I agree with that its a preference, but i have to say that with stacked rage i can hit through a personal forcefield now and then. and if you slot it correctly and with lighting reflexes ( hasten can.. but i dont need it ) I stack it already. And damn Stacked rage is unbelievable. The power you got atm is just to sweet. And this is in pvp or pve both situations work well with it.
The numbers much have a glitch in them.. Becaus i noticed that SS hits much faster than SM. The numbers are probably calculated when you hit the three buttons in a row when fully recharged and not when trully about the recharge time when already used.
But thats all what i saq in the game... both SM and SS are real nice in combination with ELA ( ELEC ). This is because mostly of the lightning reflexes and the conserve power. ( both drain end like nuts )
But as i said before this is a real old discussion and there is no real answer to it, but that its up to you with wich one you play the best. some play better with SS and some with SM
Have fun and GL with picking...
Yeah, but we all know SM is the better one.
Hehe, they're basically the same sets with different skins and different haircuts, Rage is nice, but I can hit through PFF on occasion too.
But yes, good luck choosing, really, you can't go wrong with either...
My personal preference is SS, a higher damage output overall due to rage and when that dual rage sets in its just insane. With some global +recharge from sets you can have dual rage up quite a long time now as well.
Well its a hard choice, at least we all agreed on something
You can't have too many brutes which my 6 brutes all in 30+ shows so just make em all and be happy
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The numbers much have a glitch in them.. Becaus i noticed that SS hits much faster than SM. The numbers are probably calculated when you hit the three buttons in a row when fully recharged and not when trully about the recharge time when already used.
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Nope, numbers are numbers calculated on a attack chain planner taking into account recharge and animation time, "noticed" however is subjective and panders to the theory of relativity more, like when rages crash feels like a lifetime over 10 seconds.
Also base recharge for seizmic smash is 20 seconds, KoB is 25% more at 25 seconds, haymaker and stone mallet are the same for all extents and purposes but heavy mallet is like 3x punch and this is reflected in end and recharge cost however you can fix that with slotting but you cannot fix punches output in the same manner.
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The numbers much have a glitch in them.. Becaus i noticed that SS hits much faster than SM. The numbers are probably calculated when you hit the three buttons in a row when fully recharged and not when trully about the recharge time when already used.
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Nope, numbers are numbers calculated on a attack chain planner taking into account recharge and animation time, "noticed" however is subjective and panders to the theory of relativity more, like when rages crash feels like a lifetime over 10 seconds.
Also base recharge for seizmic smash is 20 seconds, KoB is 25% more at 25 seconds, haymaker and stone mallet are the same for all extents and purposes but heavy mallet is like 3x punch and this is reflected in end and recharge cost however you can fix that with slotting but you cannot fix punches output in the same manner.
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I think you are talking about two different things here, the overall attack chain is faster for SS but the instant 3-hit attack chain is faster for SM. Not many toons besides squishys caught off guard goes down with just 3 hits though.
And while were looking at the numbers for the 3 hit attacks you need to factor in the dual rage, thats another +80 percent dmg that gets added to SS which SM cannot get so the dmg chain for SS is alot higher than for SM. With just hasten and lightning reflexes from /elec you get 37 seconds of dual rage and with IOs it will be even more than that. Just looking at one part of something and saying "this is how it is" never gives the full picture and in the end its down to personal preference like it has been said before.
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The numbers much have a glitch in them.. Becaus i noticed that SS hits much faster than SM. The numbers are probably calculated when you hit the three buttons in a row when fully recharged and not when trully about the recharge time when already used.
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Nope, numbers are numbers calculated on a attack chain planner taking into account recharge and animation time, "noticed" however is subjective and panders to the theory of relativity more, like when rages crash feels like a lifetime over 10 seconds.
Also base recharge for seizmic smash is 20 seconds, KoB is 25% more at 25 seconds, haymaker and stone mallet are the same for all extents and purposes but heavy mallet is like 3x punch and this is reflected in end and recharge cost however you can fix that with slotting but you cannot fix punches output in the same manner.
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I think you are talking about two different things here, the overall attack chain is faster for SS but the instant 3-hit attack chain is faster for SM. Not many toons besides squishys caught off guard goes down with just 3 hits though.
And while were looking at the numbers for the 3 hit attacks you need to factor in the dual rage, thats another +80 percent dmg that gets added to SS which SM cannot get so the dmg chain for SS is alot higher than for SM. With just hasten and lightning reflexes from /elec you get 37 seconds of dual rage and with IOs it will be even more than that. Just looking at one part of something and saying "this is how it is" never gives the full picture and in the end its down to personal preference like it has been said before.
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factoring in dual rage also means you need to factor in 2x 10 seconds of standing there and 2x 25% end crash and blah blah blah, dual rage is NOT the normal and requires specific builds and I can throw out a build that will counter and blah blah blah some more.
Dual rage was great when you could counter the crash with the overlap, sadly the devs caught onto that and you get the full whammy now. If dual rage was the total shizzle then everyone would be rolling ss, both here and the US and it would be nerfed as it would be overpowered. Its nice, its not remotely overpowered and isnt going to get nerfed because it just isnt all that. The only aspect of it that IS all that is the additional tohit that you get with it. You know, dual rage availability is nothing new, we had it a LONG time back and it still wasnt the shizzle then.
As for "Not many toons besides squishys caught off guard goes down with just 3 hits though" you are not gonna tag anyone with half a brain with more than 2 moves with SS, but you can unload a full and contstant chain with SM due to seizmic being a MAG 4 hold and all of the KD that you get once acro falls, even popping a bf after seizmic isnt going to help with all the KD. Squishies will laugh at KO blow not even being able to bypass acro, land and aid self/heal off whatever damage you inflicted.
Speaking as someone with both SS and SM toons at level 50 in MAJORLY optimised specifications SM is the one to go for in PVP in my opinion based on EXPERIENCE with both sets. SS cant stop anyone from rabbiting and healing, its burst is not enough to take down a squishy before they run and what are you going to do during those very very regular 10 seconds of thumb twidling? Wanna run SS? then roll a fire/SS TANK as that is a major machine at SC levels and can wipe as it has rage + firey embrace and a higher base damage modifier (fury is totally irrelevant in PVP and is still broken) SM is FAST heavy burst damage which SS cant touch in actual pvp combat as you have too many caveats to its optimal functionality.
SS is a great set, widely known for how nice it is, I dont have a downer on it in anyway but you wouldnt beleive how good stone melee is untill you try it yourself, I was really very suprised.
*edit* Im even running up another, SM/Dark
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Right im in a bit of a pickle...Im not to sure what i should go with between Super Strentgh or Stone Melee. Reasons i would go Super Strentgh is prolonged stacked rage due to Lightning reflexes and uber accurcy aswell and has a very nice attack chain. However Vs Squishies i have nothing that will knock their Acro as every tom dick and harry seems to have it, this is where i slightly sway towards Stone melee. It has Seismic which would crack acro and is a nice Damage dealer When fury is in full swing, but im really not sure....my end would be ok with either due to Power Sink and conserve so endurance shudnt be a problem im just confuzzled....Cheers for any feedback