Grav/Rad is a great combo imo. Dunno how can you feel like your not contributing. You got a great AoE immob and hold, Wormhole (particulary funny to tp the anchor from one mob to the other) and in 3 levels you'll get Singularity (one of the best pets, if not the best). You should be enjoying the build. Give it time 
@False Fiction - Virtue / Defiant
Current projects - [Glaciologist - Ill/Cold Troller] [Cloudshaper - Storm/Dark Def] [Harald Wartooth - Elec/Psi Domi]
Its only the thought of the Sing thats kept me going this long 
I think (looking again at my build ona planner and weeping into my keyboard) that I may have borked him myself rather than anything else. I ditched Propel cos of the animation time, but that left me with just the holds and immob for damage now, which is what made it slow I think. I also skipped wormhole at the time, but having read into it a bit I think I may have to pick that up too. *sigh* 
(Honestly, I thought I had an idea about these sets, really I did...)
I have a few high level controllers and they do eventually loose their novelty and can become boring, repetitive or tedious not to mention relatively weak (however useful one or two of thier 'controls' or 'buffs/debuffs' can be on a team). So I can relate to your thoughts. My solution with the illusionist, was to play him when I felt like it but I didn't delete him.. he's now lvl 42 after 18 months.
Grav/Rad is a great combo.
If you really don't like playing that toon I see no point in doing so but it really is a very good combo.
Can you possibly post your build?
SingStar:
"Extremists LOVE to fish to get us annoyed so we break the forum rules."
CRACK68:
"The origin of life wasn't planned either, should all life be declared a bug and wiped out?"
Lionsbane:
"You know me.Ever the realist"
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I have a few high level controllers and they do eventually loose their novelty and can become boring, repetitive or tedious not to mention relatively weak (however useful one or two of thier 'controls' or 'buffs/debuffs' can be on a team). So I can relate to your thoughts. My solution with the illusionist, was to play him when I felt like it but I didn't delete him.. he's now lvl 42 after 18 months.
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That's your opinion I guess....Controllers are imo the single most interesting AT to play in this game.
Calling them "weak" is probably the single worst description I've ever heard anyone call controllers. And saying they only have 1 or 2 things to contribute to a team?....hmmm!?
SingStar:
"Extremists LOVE to fish to get us annoyed so we break the forum rules."
CRACK68:
"The origin of life wasn't planned either, should all life be declared a bug and wiped out?"
Lionsbane:
"You know me.Ever the realist"
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I have a few high level controllers and they do eventually loose their novelty and can become boring, repetitive or tedious not to mention relatively weak (however useful one or two of thier 'controls' or 'buffs/debuffs' can be on a team). So I can relate to your thoughts. My solution with the illusionist, was to play him when I felt like it but I didn't delete him.. he's now lvl 42 after 18 months.
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That's your opinion I guess....Controllers are imo the single most interesting AT to play in this game.
Calling them "weak" is probably the single worst description I've ever heard anyone call controllers. And saying they only have 1 or 2 things to contribute to a team?....hmmm!?
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What Archy said: I find them much more challenging than any other AT really, because they can potentially swerve the tide of a battle. Interesting how some people think they're "weak" (and he did say "high level") just as we get the nerfbat to our Epic blasts Anyway, as others said, maybe we can make some suggestions to your build (you definitely want Wormhole), but if he's still not enjoyable, just play something else 
(I deleted an empath in the mid-20s for the same reason).
PS Don't know if you PvP, but grav/rad can be a nasty combo...
CoX 50s: <ill/rad> <ice/ice> <fire/kin> <grav/sonic> <ice/storm> <earth/kin> <kin/elec> <cold/psy> <thugs/dark> <fire/dark> <dark/elec> <night widow> <EM/ninj> <mind/icy>
I've a Grav/TA at the same-ish level.
Wormhole & Propel are the two most entertaining powers in Grav, IMO. Propel is slow but contained Propel is worth it. And its lots of fun. In teams I focus it on lieuts & bosses to avoid the "hey they've been defeated for 3 seconds" syndrome.
For me Wormhole has ended up being my primary method of AOE control. Solo I use it to set up a bunch in a corner so they're nicely grouped for debuffs. Remember, you can fire it off from cover which avoids the Alpha. In teams I use it either just as an AOE stun, placing it just in front of where they are currently. If its a big team I'm on I use it on stragglers & anyone attacking squishies to reposition them into the nastiest area I can find (say back into a Freezing Rain patch or Earthquake) or back beside the Tank / Aggro holder.
Wormhole has a smaller AOE than other Controller "secondary" control powers like Flashfire, but its longer lasting and more accurate. Like most AOE controls it shines with 6 slots in it (1 accuracy, 3 stun, 1 range, 1 recharge is my current slotting but you could drop the range or recharge for another Accuracy if you liked).
I find Controllers one of the most varied ATs in the game. At the higher levels on powerful teams you might a bit left out if the team are mowing down troops (I find by the time I've debuffed everything is dead), but when it gets dicey suddenly your AOE controls can save the day!
Don't reword my words. Controllers are relatively weak, we all know that. It even says so in the Game Guide.
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Don't reword my words Archy. Controllers are relatively weak, we all know that, it even says so in the Game Guide.
The Controller is at the same time the weakest and yet the most powerful of the Archetypes. The Controller has few offensive attacks and possesses few hit points.
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That quote says that they're also the most powerful though.
Personally I find controllers to be probably the second most powerful AT in the game after MMs. Certainly they're the most interesting for me to play. Me trying to play a scrapper is one of the most pitiful sights you'd be likely to see in Paragon City. He got nicknamed "The Glass Landmine" by a PuG in the Hollows I died that much.
Nice Ninja-edit but too slow I'm afraid 
lol. My thugs MM is so overpowered and drugged up on defense that I still wonder if she'd be beatable by what I consider the most powerful controller - my illusionist, who is incidentally also drugged up on defense.
Thugs/FF vs Illusion/FF (preferably fighting in the mid-forties) I really dunno who'd win. Pistol did fight an illusionist the other week who did the right thing and kept on decieving everything.
Illusion would win if the players have equal skill. The untyped hold hit thru pff as if it wasn't there
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Illusion would win if the players have equal skill. The untyped hold hit thru pff as if it wasn't there
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Untyped? Blind is Psi hold isn't it? NoFuture reference
Given how useful Break Frees are in PvP and the extra mez protection other FF powers have I wouldn't count on just Blind winning it.
I've always wanted to pit Carni against my Necro / Dark MM. Nearly got the chance of fighting one in the 3vP event but they pulled out.
You can always add powerpool attack powers, like boxing/AS and then if you're a big enough vet run tactics to make Sands of Mu worth using. Combine those with propel and containment and you should be doing pretty fair damage, if that's what you want to do.
I'm not too familiar with /rad, unfortunately, so this is the best advice I can really offer.
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Illusion would win if the players have equal skill. The untyped hold hit thru pff as if it wasn't there
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Untyped? Blind is Psi hold isn't it? NoFuture reference
Given how useful Break Frees are in PvP and the extra mez protection other FF powers have I wouldn't count on just Blind winning it.
I've always wanted to pit Carni against my Necro / Dark MM. Nearly got the chance of fighting one in the 3vP event but they pulled out.
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Blind has a Sleep component, which'll drop FF's Mez protection pretty quick.
Right...
On the whole, Grav/Rad is a good combo, but you need time and a team.
You contribute to teams in many ways. Accelerate Metabolism, lingering radiation (you will get invites to AV-hunting all the time), enervating field and other debuffs among others.
Also, you got good powerful holds. Not to damaging, but you are teaming, right?
It can be quite slow to solo, but once you hit 32 and you get your pet, everything changes. Your singularity will make all the difference. It spams out holds, has a built in repel and good resistances. Learn to love...
But, team up. As a troller you need it. Do what you do best, control and let the others do the damage.
/Dr. Lagrange (lvl 49 Grav/rad 'Troller)
Well, I figure since I have a few respecs on him now thanks to the Vet rewards, I may as well try respeccing him to see if I can give him a better build. Wormhole and Propel are definitely going to be added! If I remember I'll post my build and some ideas when I get home from work.
OK, now this os going to make me sound like a n00b, but I think this is the root of my problem: I've just not got my head around how to best use Rad. I find I either feel useful and focus on holding/immobbing etc (can't wait for my Sing, think he/it will make everything MUCH better ), or I throw out a few debuffs, and by the time the animations have finished everything (or at the very least the anchor ) is dead and I don't feel like I helped. Having read a few posts here, I'm more inclined to think that my problems are caused by a rubbish build and a rubbish playstyle.
I know this makes me sound stupid, but I have played loads of alts, and from my experience the controllers seem to be the most dual-purpose, being able to buff/debuff and control. My 50 is a defender and you have to do this to an extent with defenders, but I played him as an Offender build and so a controller feels even more different from that than I had thought it would. And each new power just brings more choices! So my question is, how do you personally balance this? I realise this is a very personal, playstyle thing, but do most people only use debuffs (for example) on bosses, EB's and AV's? Because I think that's where Rad is throwing me - you only really have 3 debuffs, and though they're very good, the animations take ages. Do people just use one most of the time, and only break the other 2 out in big fights?
Honestly, I'm not a n00b, and I enjoyed playing him until he hit about 24 and suddenly I had all these choices...
OK, here's my proposed build... what do people think? Not sure about the slotting order, gonna have a play on test server and see if I can sort that out a bit. But is any slotting shockingly bad or anything?
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Exported from Ver: 1.7.6.0 of the CoH_CoV Character Builder
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Name:
Level: 50
Archetype: Controller
Primary: Gravity Control
Secondary: Radiation Emission
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01) --> Crush==> Acc(1)Immob(3)Immob(48)
01) --> Radiant Aura==> Rechg(1)
02) --> Gravity Distortion==> Acc(2)Hold(3)Hold(46)
04) --> Accelerate Metabolism==> Rechg(4)Rechg(5)Rechg(5)EndMod(43)EndMod(46)EndMod(46)
06) --> Hasten==> Rechg(6)Rechg(7)Rechg(7)
08) --> Propel==> Acc(8)Acc(9)Dmg(9)Dmg(15)Dmg(15)EndRdx(43)
10) --> Crushing Field==> Acc(10)Acc(11)EndRdx(11)EndRdx(13)Immob(13)Immob(43)
12) --> Swift==> Run(12)
14) --> Super Speed==> Run(14)
16) --> Health==> Heal(16)Heal(17)Heal(17)
18) --> Gravity Distortion Field==> Acc(18)Acc(19)Rechg(19)Rechg(31)Hold(31)Hold(34)
20) --> Stamina==> EndMod(20)EndMod(21)EndMod(21)
22) --> Radiation Infection==> EndRdx(22)DefDeBuf(23)DefDeBuf(23)DefDeBuf(25)TH_DeBuf(25)TH_DeBuf(29)
24) --> Enervating Field==> EndRdx(24)
26) --> Wormhole==> Acc(26)Rechg(27)Rechg(27)Rechg(37)DisDur(40)EndRdx(42)
28) --> Lingering Radiation==> Acc(28)Acc(29)Rechg(31)Slow(50)Slow(50)Slow(50)
30) --> Mutation==> EndRdx(30)
32) --> Singularity==> Acc(32)Acc(33)Acc(33)Acc(33)Acc(34)Acc(34)
35) --> Fallout==> Acc(35)Dmg(36)Dmg(36)Dmg(36)Rechg(37)Rechg(37)
38) --> EM Pulse==> Acc(38)Acc(39)Rechg(39)Rechg(39)Rechg(40)Hold(40)
41) --> Conserve Power==> Rechg(41)Rechg(42)Rechg(42)
44) --> Temp Invulnerability==> EndRdx(44)DmgRes(45)DmgRes(45)DmgRes(45)
47) --> Power Boost==> Rechg(47)Rechg(48)Rechg(48)
49) --> Recall Friend==> EndRdx(49)
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Thanks guys
Here's what I'd do with those power choices (although I would skip Health and Fallout).
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Exported from Ver: 1.7.6.0 of the CoH_CoV Character Builder - (http://sherksilver.coldfront.net/index.php)
---------------------------------------------
Name:
Level: 50
Archetype: Controller
Primary: Gravity Control
Secondary: Radiation Emission
---------------------------------------------
01) --> Crush==> Acc(1) Dmg(43) Dmg(46) Dmg(46)
01) --> Radiant Aura==> Heal(1) Heal(17) Heal(17) Rechg(43) Rechg(48)
02) --> Gravity Distortion==> Acc(2) Acc(3) Hold(3) Hold(13) Rechg(15) Rechg(15)
04) --> Accelerate Metabolism==> Rechg(4) Rechg(5) Rechg(5) EndMod(34) EndMod(36) EndMod(36)
06) --> Hasten==> Rechg(6) Rechg(7) Rechg(7)
08) --> Propel==> Acc(8) Dmg(9) Dmg(9) Dmg(13) Acc(46)
10) --> Radiation Infection==> TH_DeBuf(10) TH_DeBuf(11) TH_DeBuf(11) DefDeBuf(36) EndRdx(40)
12) --> Swift==> Run(12)
14) --> Super Speed==> Run(14)
16) --> Hurdle==> Jump(16)
18) --> Gravity Distortion Field==> Acc(18) Acc(19) Hold(19) Hold(23) Rechg(29) Rechg(29)
20) --> Stamina==> EndMod(20) EndMod(21) EndMod(21)
22) --> Enervating Field==> EndRdx(22) EndRdx(23)
24) --> Crushing Field==> Acc(24) Acc(25) EndRdx(25)
26) --> Wormhole==> Acc(26) Acc(27) DisDur(27) DisDur(31) Rechg(31) Rechg(31)
28) --> Lingering Radiation==> Acc(28) Acc(37) Rechg(37) Rechg(37) Rechg(42) Slow(43)
30) --> Mutation==> Rechg(30)
32) --> Singularity==> Acc(32) Dmg(33) Dmg(33) Dmg(33) Hold(34) Hold(34)
35) --> Recall Friend==> IntRdx(35)
38) --> EM Pulse==> Acc(38) Acc(39) Hold(39) Hold(39) Rechg(40) Rechg(40)
41) --> Conserve Power==> Rechg(41) Rechg(42) Rechg(42)
44) --> Temp Invulnerability==> DmgRes(44) DmgRes(45) DmgRes(45) EndRdx(45)
47) --> Power Boost==> Rechg(47) Rechg(48) Rechg(48)
49) --> Fallout==> Acc(49) Dmg(50) Dmg(50) Dmg(50)
- Crush does decent damage (more than epic blasts nowadays). No point in slotting immobs really.
- Radiant Aura: not the best heal, but you will need it, so might as well slot it (might even add an EndRdx at some point)
- Propel: nice damage but very long animation which makes it not-so-useful in higher levels unless you solo.
- Crushing Field: mainly for Containment and to use with Wormhole. Doesn't really need that many slots.
- Rad Infection: make sure to slot 3 ThT_Debuff. 1-2 Def_Debuf is nice, but not crucial for PvE.
- Wormhole: can play a bit with Recharges, Disorients and even Range based on playstyle.
- En Field: heavy end draining toggle. Needs at least 2 EndRdx.
- Lingering Rad: slows only affect movement (not recharge), so slot Rechgs instead.
- Sing: I assume the slotting is a typo!
- Fallout: don't really like the power. You might get more out of Choking Cloud if you can fit it earlier in your build and 6-slot (3 hold 3 EndRdx).
Hope some of this helps!
CoX 50s: <ill/rad> <ice/ice> <fire/kin> <grav/sonic> <ice/storm> <earth/kin> <kin/elec> <cold/psy> <thugs/dark> <fire/dark> <dark/elec> <night widow> <EM/ninj> <mind/icy>
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- Sing: I assume the slotting is a typo!
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Lol, yes it is. I actually meant to ask about how best to slot it. I know there are many, many different ways, but I was wondering if there are any particularly effective slotting styles? I'm probably going to be using it for a combination of damage and back-up holds wise... AFAIK it isn't worth slotting Rech but what about Acc? Think I may have to wait til I get it and have a play with slots, but either way I'm pretty sure it'll get all six in some way.
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- Fallout: don't really like the power. You might get more out of Choking Cloud if you can fit it earlier in your build and 6-slot (3 hold 3 EndRdx).
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I did have this and specced it out, as it seemed to drain a lot of end and didn't seem to hold that reliably. May have to try it again though...
How come you don't like Fallout? I thought it was supposed to be pretty powerful, almost a nuke. So what is the downside to it? (I had been looking forward to it as a bit of damage at last!) I also specced into Wormhole and although the recharge is a bit long it does seem like it would be very useful in large teams (only solo'ed over christmas, as I haven't been on much). I don't mind the animation on propel - I just don't use it when it's life-or-death, just when I've got things locked down or as a way to get rid of a Lt a lot faster than without it...
Other than that your suggestions seem really good Okton. I usually go for Health out of habit, but I suppose it probably won't do a troller much good!
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I was wondering if there are any particularly effective slotting styles? I'm probably going to be using it for a combination of damage and back-up holds wise... AFAIK it isn't worth slotting Rech but what about Acc?
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Its accuracy is quite high, but I still like to have one Acc enhance in it (for fighting higher levels) along with 3 Dmg and 2 Holds. Recharges aren't really needed since it's quite resilient, so basically perma until you zone (or unless you use it to "tank" AVs).
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I did have this and specced it out, as it seemed to drain a lot of end and didn't seem to hold that reliably. May have to try it again though...
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I'm actually not a fan of Choking Cloud for most controller builds because of the high end cost and low accuracy. I also respecced it out on my ill/rad but I just meant that Fallout really isn't that great, so almost anything is better (even Lift, for the damage and knockup). You need a dead team-mate to use it, so it can't really be used as part of an attack chain (well, hopefully! ).
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I also specced into Wormhole and although the recharge is a bit long it does seem like it would be very useful in large teams (only solo'ed over christmas, as I haven't been on much).
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Careful with Wormhole and large teams: if people don't know what they're doing, they will not be happy when a whole mob disappears and reappears somewhere else. Just make sure to tell your team-mates what you're doing. And it's a great tool for soloing if you use it with Crushing Field. With 2 recharges and Hasten it should come back up fairly quickly.
And Health is OKish for trollers if you have no heal, but that's not the case with rad, so I wouldn't bother (although it does provides a small resistance to sleep).
Enjoy!
CoX 50s: <ill/rad> <ice/ice> <fire/kin> <grav/sonic> <ice/storm> <earth/kin> <kin/elec> <cold/psy> <thugs/dark> <fire/dark> <dark/elec> <night widow> <EM/ninj> <mind/icy>
You guys are arguing more than helping whats up with that?
My grav/storm controller is very squishee but when he does work he works ver well. Just make sure you're on a competent team and you'll do well. If you're getting bored then just play him for short intervals
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Illusion would win if the players have equal skill. The untyped hold hit thru pff as if it wasn't there
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Untyped? Blind is Psi hold isn't it? NoFuture reference
Given how useful Break Frees are in PvP and the extra mez protection other FF powers have I wouldn't count on just Blind winning it.
I've always wanted to pit Carni against my Necro / Dark MM. Nearly got the chance of fighting one in the 3vP event but they pulled out.
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Blind has a Sleep component, which'll drop FF's Mez protection pretty quick.
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Blind is untyped, dunno if it's a bug or what, but deals the same dmg on a controller with psi armor on and off. It holds thru pff as someone said, in one hold (and i mean pff, not dispersion bubble). And it also cuts thru elude like if it wasn't there, and elude has psi def too iirc
Hi everyone.
) as he is fairly high, for me anyway, and I've had him for about a year now - but he is still only 29 and I almost never use him unless I'm in a team that desperately needs his debuffs, and thats a rubbish reason to keep him really. So now I have decided to do something with him, should I delete him? Should I rebuild him (now I have a freespec 
)? And if so, does anyone have any suggestions? I'm at work so I don't have a build here, but I know that the only Grav powers he has are both the single and AoE holds and Immobs. Yes, I know he needs propel... If I keep him thats one thing I'm definitely getting! He also has most/all the Rad powers (certainly all the debuffs, mutation and Choking cloud), and he has hasten & SS and Stamina.
I've been thinking about this for ages, and I've decided I can't make up my mind, so I'm going to ask for your help.
I've got a lvl 29 grav/rad troller, and frankly, he bores the heck out of me. In a team he rarely dies but I just don't feel like I contribute, and solo'ing is easy but sooooo slow that its just painful to watch. So, I want to know: is it just me - have I gimped him badly, or do other people find this particular combination a bit boring too?
I have been loathe to delete him (a bit low on slots
Thanks in Advance!