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Saying that passives give 15-20% defense is, at least, a confusing way to explain it. If passives give 15-20%, defense cap is not 45%, but 135%.
Yes, those that have played an /SR know each toggle/passive affect to a certain type of attacks, but hey, saying that without passives you'll miss 15-20% defense, one might think that it's 15-20% each.
And well, I'm not playing your game on giving credit to other players, just tried to explain something I didn't find clear enough 
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now i am confused!
He will honor his words; he will definitely carry out his actions. What he promises he will fulfill. He does not care about his bodily self, putting his life and death aside to come forward for another's troubled besiegement. He does not boast about his ability, or shamelessly extol his own virtues. - Sima Qian.
Hehe
I thought the reason to take the passives was that, with all 3, you get up to 60%(ish, iirc) damage resistance as ur health drops.
Sounds good to me :-)
Maybe thats the 15-20% figure you had in your head Raz
I have a Kat/SR at 25 atm & it's definatley noticeable on 1/4 health that the dmg is reduced. (with agile & dodge so far)
@Cryoburn
Cryoburn Ice/Fire Tank
Sunless Avenger DM/SD Scrapper
[ QUOTE ]
I thought the reason to take the passives was that, with all 3, you get up to 60%(ish, iirc) damage resistance as ur health drops.
Sounds good to me :-)
Maybe thats the 15-20% figure you had in your head Raz
I have a Kat/SR at 25 atm & it's definatley noticeable on 1/4 health that the dmg is reduced. (with agile & dodge so far)
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It might be.. recovering from a mild flu bug -- so I might have got my number working crosswired.. but yes.. the Passives, since we got the DMG res added for SR is very cool.. gives us that edge where we need it at low HP.
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I thought the reason to take the passives was that, with all 3, you get up to 60%(ish, iirc) damage resistance as ur health drops.
[/ QUOTE ]
How sure are you of those figures tho?
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I thought the reason to take the passives was that, with all 3, you get up to 60%(ish, iirc) damage resistance as ur health drops.
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How sure are you of those figures tho?
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60% resistance is at 1 hp with all 3 autos iirc.
thePhilosopher Martial Arts/Regen/Fire Scrapper
theRegulator Empathy/Energy/Soul Defender
Total Inertia Ice Blast/Kinetics/Psy Corruptor
Total Inferno Ice Blast/Thermal/Leviathan Corruptor
So just to get some knowledge from it, how does dmg res scale in /sr? what's ur dmg res at, let's say, 25% health left?
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So just to get some knowledge from it, how does dmg res scale in /sr? what's ur dmg res at, let's say, 25% health left?
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Think it would be a defiance like scale but I dont know for sure
thePhilosopher Martial Arts/Regen/Fire Scrapper
theRegulator Empathy/Energy/Soul Defender
Total Inertia Ice Blast/Kinetics/Psy Corruptor
Total Inferno Ice Blast/Thermal/Leviathan Corruptor
been reading in the us forums & the scaling resists kick in at 60% health (the initial amount being 3.33% per passive, 10% with all 3).
There was a lot of math & my head didnt really do that so well hehe
I did a quick test (on test ^^) with my SR with 2 passives & found that at 25% health i had around 25%ish res. At 12.5% each that would be 37.5% with all 3, not shabby 
'twas only a quick test
@Cryoburn
Cryoburn Ice/Fire Tank
Sunless Avenger DM/SD Scrapper
Didnt think the figures were that high...but i try not to number crunch to much cos it makes my head hurt 
. Im still toying with the idea of 6 slotted heal self with just 1 passive before 30 for a bit of fun in SC, will have to try it on test first, my final 50 build will have all 3, but the problem ive found with SR is that you either feel like bruce lee or bruce forsyth, i think a heal is going to be important when doing the praotarian arcs (solo) 
[ QUOTE ]
Didnt think the figures were that high...but i try not to number crunch to much cos it makes my head hurt . Im still toying with the idea of 6 slotted heal self with just 1 passive before 30 for a bit of fun in SC, will have to try it on test first, my final 50 build will have all 3, but the problem ive found with SR is that you either feel like bruce lee or bruce forsyth, i think a heal is going to be important when doing the praotarian arcs (solo)
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As long as you're up close and personal with Melee/Lethal you won' have much problems.
DX managed to duo tank Recluse and Scorpion on my own, only because they was in Melee. Soon as they started Ranged/AoE attacks, then I had problems.
Same with the Brutes that got cocky with me in RV once.. they did all they could to kill me, but stupid of them was they was in Melee, so it went on for about 2 Eludes worth, before the Stone Melee Brute started using Ranged/Melee attacks.
The self heal MIGHT/SHOULD give you sum extra leyway for survivibility solo vs most AVs, depending on how they are attacking you.
Hehe had a brute get very cocky with me in SC, doin emotes etc..he had me down to about 1/4 health and zero end and started taking the mick, it was most amusing when i just hit him with divine avalanche for a couple of minutes (he must have been thinking he was invincable at this point) at half end i hit hasten, build up and hit him with 2 attack chains at which point he ran as i gently mocked him by tell...ahhh the fun of PvP i really must get back into it!!
Hi folks, thought I'd post in here rather than start a new thread since the topic covers my query too.
I'm currently playing my first proper scrapper, so far I've mainly played Controllers. He's a *suprise suprise* kat/sr and just dinged 15. I've tried melee chars in the past and always found I preferred Controllers, but I'm REALLY LOVING this guy. Glad I chose these sets together, because they seem to have some nice synergy going on - defense-wise. He is primarily for PvE, but may become a PvP main in future.
I am currently slotting DOs. I still have two slots to add, now I've dinged 15. The build to this point is as follows (although I may have chosen the slots in wrong order in the builder):
---------------------------------------------
Exported from Ver: 1.7.6.0 of the CoH_CoV Character Builder
---------------------------------------------
Name:
Level: 15
Archetype: Scrapper
Primary: Katana
Secondary: Super Reflexes
---------------------------------------------
01) --> Sting of the Wasp==> Dmg(1)Dmg(3)Acc(3)Empty(5)
01) --> Focused Fighting==> DefBuf(1)DefBuf(5)DefBuf(7)
02) --> Flashing Steel==> Dmg(2)Dmg(9)Acc(9)Empty(11)
04) --> Focused Senses==> DefBuf(4)DefBuf(11)DefBuf(13)
06) --> Build Up==> Rechg(6)Rechg(15)Rechg(15)
08) --> Divine Avalanche==> Empty(8)
10) --> Practiced Brawler==> Rechg(10)
12) --> Combat Jumping==> DefBuf(12)
14) --> Hasten==> Empty(14)
---------------------------------------------
01) --> Sprint==> Empty(1)
01) --> Brawl==> Empty(1)
01) --> Critical Hit==> Empty(1)
02) --> Rest==> Empty(2)
---------------------------------------------
I have some questions that are mainly related to use of Hasten and Stamina. I plan to definitely get Stamina, and I already have Hasten.
<ul type="square">[*]Should I be slotting my attacks with Endurance Reduction before I get Stamina? [*]How about after I get Stamina?[/list]<ul type="square">[*]Should I be slotting my sr toggles with Endurance Reduction before I get Stamina? [*]How about after I get Stamina?[/list]At the moment I don't have a serious endurance consumption problem - unless I pop Hasten.
I was really excited getting Hasten coz this is the first time I've ever tried it on any character. I was impressed, yes indeed, and it certainly fits with this character's concept. After having used it a couple of days now though, I'm a little worried. As expected it allows me to perform an almost non-stop chain of attacking, but also as expected, at the severe cost of increased endurance consumption to the point of detoggling. Here are some questions you could help me with:
<ul type="square">[*]Is Hasten recommended on this build?[/list]If I was to keep Hasten,
<ul type="square">[*]Would Stamina alone handle the endurance burn while Hasten is activated?[*]Would Stamina + Endurance Reduction enhancements on attacks handle the endurance burn while Hasten is activated?[/list]If I have to slot my attacks for Endurance Reduction, then an alternative might be to slot for Recharge Reduction instead. In that case, perhaps I could save a power and drop Hasten altogether.
<ul type="square">[*]Would Quickness + Recharge Reduction enhancements on attacks come anywhere close to Hasten?[/list]I've tried to figure this out using the numbers in the hero planner and making the attack chains, but I'm afraid I still need some guidance. Thanks, all.
3 dam slots do what 3 rechg and 3 end do so 3 dams first is not a shabby start plus you will need accuracy for when you are -tohit. 3 dam slots could be fairly changed to other types of enhancements if ya get a good secondary effect of an attack imo as its +survivability ie dark consumption is an attack but we want it for endgain if anything.
After you get stamina, end slots will increase your number of attack chains to an end bar, so 3 dam to start, acc till comfortable as missing is wasteful, endurance to achieve more attack chains, recharges to keep a chain tight if you decide to have few attacks.
Ill give examples of slotting per scrapper:
SRs get a recharge buff from quickness so a SR maybe 2acc 1 end 3 dam no rechg.
Regens get an end buff from quick recovery so a Regen could be 2acc 3 dam 1 rechg and no end slots.
Invulns should get an acc buff from invincible and could be if able to play well (amongst 10 foes) 1 acc 1 end 3 dam and 1 rechg but 2 acc in many attacks at late game.
Dark armours have a great dpe (if used on 10 foes) damage aura and so its a bit like an invuln gets an acc buff from mobs around him/her so therefore DA is getting a dam buff when ya think about it and so could be 2 acc 1 end 1 rechg and 2 dam per attacks however 3 dam slots as said in the beginning rules but not always so if ya get a secondary effect of the attack.
Hasten will recharge ya main heavy hitters faster causing you to do greater dps overtime so yes id recommend it. the endurance burn is insignificant if you get good damage per endurance from it. Besides the amount of end lost when haste ends spread over the amount of time haste is on for is very insignificant, the crash is a problem only if you let your end bar get to the last 15pts of end at the time of it.
Quickness and rechg will bring you to a point of being hastened like however your attacks could vary 1-2 acc 1 end 3 dam 0-1 rechg between them and not be the same. Generally if its an aoe it hits minions and 1 acc 1 end 3 dam 1 rechg is good imo and if its a single target then id say thats the boss hitter and 2 acc 1 end 3 dam is good but you would have to play with the attack chain planner.
On your above build i'd of 3 slotted practised brawler asap as i like to increase my chances of being able to move if i had too especially as whilst its not running your toggles are at risk of being dropped and rendered useless anyway.
In pvp you would be better of having atleast 2 accs in attacks should really be mainly using single targetters as the endurance cost of using an aoe on one person is bad economics.
He will honor his words; he will definitely carry out his actions. What he promises he will fulfill. He does not care about his bodily self, putting his life and death aside to come forward for another's troubled besiegement. He does not boast about his ability, or shamelessly extol his own virtues. - Sima Qian.
Tbh I dont bother with the end on attacks.
Katana doesnt do HUGE amount of damage til 26 even then its not enormous but it is fine as it has quick recharge.
I find that the endurance is fine I just put 2 end red on the shields and I'm off.
Imo hasten is useful in most scrapper builds, great for recharging the tier 9 power in SR later on and since I have only 3 attacks before 30 (not including DA as I dont use it as an attack) I find it means that I dont have to worry about recharge so I have 4 dam 2 acc in all my attacks except lotus drops with 3 acc 3 dam(to stop pesky stalkers as'ing me once im placated)
I also reccomend slotting BU with 2-3 recharge and 2-3 ToHit Buffs, useful for hitting through Eludeish powers since iirc Katana has a high accuracy anyway...
This is from a post i made a very longtime ago as its better to show maths than having a my mileage is this "" when other peoples may vary, we dont all need/look to have a kin etc in the team as it were, or put pvp to the forefront and so if you do feel that your end heavy heres maybe why and if ya do feel you have to much recharge in anyone power ya may want to try to eek out more chains to a bar.
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This is using 4 of the main katana attacks none of which are slotted for anything. Without recharge involved in the slotting except for haste these could create an attack chain as it is below. These are the most damaging attacks and Divine avalanche is used for extra defence in good time. This attack chain is cyclable. The build has base end recovery and stamina 3 slotted giving a total end recovery of 2.49 EPS.
Golden Dragonfly Act 2 End 11.856
Divine Avalanche Act 2.17 End 4.368
Lotus Drops Act 2 End 13.0
Soaring Dragon Act 2 End 9.36
Divine Avalanche Act 2 End 4.368
Total Action time 10.17 End 42.952
EPS of attack chain is equal to 42.952/10.17 = 4.22
(note it is actually slightly less than that due to tiny recharge of one attack).
Final EPS = EPS - Recovery EPS = 4.22 - 2.49
Final EPS = 1.73
Toggles unslotted for endurance are as follows
Focused Fighting = 0.239 EPS
Focused Senses = 0.239 EPS
Evasion = 0.239 EPS
Total EPS of all toggles= 0.717
Before i even carry on you can already see that the attack chains EPS of 4.22 is clearly higher than the toggles EPS. So which is worth slotting first?
Lets say you only have 4 end slots to put anywhere, this could be one per attack or 4 across 3 toggles. You could say as Dr Rock has said put more on the attack you use most and in this attack chains case its Divine Avalanche but Divine Avalanche ideally would have ample def and acc for survivabilities purposes. So lets say Divine Avalanche is slotted 2 acc 1 end and 3 def. So we'll stick to one end slot per attack.
We get this with attacks slotted for end and toggles unslotted:
Golden Dragonfly Act 2 End 8.68
Divine Avalanche Act 2.17 End 3.2
Lotus Drops Act 2 End 9.51
Soaring Dragon Act 2 End 6.85
Divine Avalanche Act 2 End 3.2
Total Action time 10.17 End 31.44
EPS of attack chain is equal to 31.44/10.17 = 3.09
Final EPS = Attack chain EPS - Recovery EPS + toggle EPS
Final EPS = 3.09 - 2.49 + 0.717
Final EPS = 1.31 (is in fact 1.27 using herobuilder)
Final EPS = 1.73
and you can cover a fight duration of 78 seconds and can cycle the chain nearly 8 times over.
Now this next one is slotting toggles first and attacks second.
Golden Dragonfly Act 2 End 11.856
Divine Avalanche Act 2.17 End 4.368
Lotus Drops Act 2 End 13.0
Soaring Dragon Act 2 End 9.36
Divine Avalanche Act 2 End 4.368
Total Action time 10.17 End 42.952
EPS of attack chain is equal to 42.952/10.17 = 4.22
Toggles slotted for endurance are as follows
Focused Fighting = 0.17 EPS
Focused Senses = 0.17 EPS
Evasion = 0.14 EPS
Total EPS = 0.48
Final EPS = Attack chain EPS - Recovery EPS + toggle EPS
Final EPS = 4.22 - 2.49 + 0.48
Final EPS = 2.21 (is in fact 2.38 using herobuilder)
Final EPS = 2.21
You can cycle the attack chain 4 times over covering a fight duration of just 42 seconds.
So attacks unslotted for end and toggles slotted for end in this case your EPS whilst fighting is 2.38 (using herobuilder) and attacks slotted for end and toggles unslotted for end your EPS whilst fighting is 1.73. The difference between slotting the attacks first and the toggles first is 3 attack chain cycles in this scenario.
If you have a long recharge attack of 100 seconds of an end cost of 10 points and a short recharge attack of 4 seconds with an end cost of 10 points then obviously the one thats a 4 second recharge will get used more and should take priority in slotting.
The bit about each end redux offering an equal amount of extra chance to use a single attack is correct however you need to compare the attack chain EPS with the toggle EPS and if i can afford an end slot on an attack (for some reasons i may not want to) i will before adding any to a toggle. Each end redux added to a toggle isnt really adding anything in terms of how much more i get to use an attack.
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If you look at the numbers you will see that each end redux added to a toggle isnt really adding anything in terms of how much more i get to use an attack. Recharges do increase your damage output in a short period of time which is great pvp and do obviously act well against -rechg and providing your end can be buffed you can keep on going. When inventions come in though you can almost forget the maths.
He will honor his words; he will definitely carry out his actions. What he promises he will fulfill. He does not care about his bodily self, putting his life and death aside to come forward for another's troubled besiegement. He does not boast about his ability, or shamelessly extol his own virtues. - Sima Qian.
Thanks both, for the detailed replies. It's cool to hear advice from contrasting perspectives - certainly food for thought. And thanks very much, Shannon, for the maths - this is the sort of thing I had tried to do with the hero builder but didn't quite manage. Very insightful, and I appreciate how the maths would convince anyone of certain things.
Since my char is still pre-stamina and pre-Lotus Drops, I thought I would try the same analysis on my current attack cycle. Apologies for the alignment, it's a little hard to get right with the forum font:
[ QUOTE ]
<font class="small">Code:[/color]<hr /><pre>
With no End Red slotting,
End Act
Focused Fighting 0.2388 0
Focused Senses 0.2388 0
Combat Jumping 0.0740 0
Total toggle EPS 0.5516 0 = 0.5516 EPS
Sting of the Wasp 6.0320 1.67
Flashing Steel 6.0320 1.67
Divine Avalanche 4.368 2.17
Total cycle EPS 16.432 / 5.51 = 2.9822 EPS
Assuming base recovery is 1.667 EPS,
Final EPS = Attack + Toggles - Recovery = 1.8668 EPS
Which means 9 cycles over ~53 seconds.
With 1 EndRed DO at 16.7% on each attack,
End Act
Sting of the Wasp 5.025 1.67
Flashing Steel 5.025 1.67
Divine Avalanche 3.685 2.17
Total cycle EPS 13.735 / 5.51 = 2.4927 EPS
Final EPS = Attack + Toggles - Recovery = 1.3773 EPS
Which means 13 cycles over ~72 seconds.
With 1 EndRed DO at 16.7% on each SR toggle,
End Act
Focused Fighting 0.1988 0
Focused Senses 0.1988 0
Combat Jumping 0.0740 0
Total toggle EPS 0.4716 0 = 0.5516 EPS
Final EPS = Attack + Toggles - Recovery = 1.7868 EPS
Which means 10 cycles over ~55 seconds.</pre><hr />
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So the difference is quite significant in this context too, 3 attack cycles (ie 9 attacks) over almost 20 seconds of up-time. I think this has convinced me to slot my attacks for Endurance Reduction. I suppose I'll be able to do mostly without Rechard REduction once I get Quickness, so it will mainly be 3 Dmg, 1 EndRed, and 1 or 2 Acc on attacks.
Problem is, I've already gone and slotted the toggles, taking advice from an in-game /sr player 
. The question is therefore, will the End Red slots on the toggles be worth it later in higher lvls or should I just respec them out now with my freespec?
Practiced Brawler seems to be very near-perma with 2 Recharge Reductions after Quickness. I'll be adding some ToHit to Build Up as well.
Ok, so now we have that out of the way, here are some more items for discussion. In my current build I've opened both Leaping and Speed, but have yet to decide on travel power. I took CJ for the added +DEF to stack with my SR. Is this 2.5% worth taking a power? If not, then perhaps I can just drop Leaping altogether. If so, then is it also worth taking Manuvres to stack another further 2.5% +DEF? I'm worried the difference will not be noticeable and that I could save the choices for elsewhere.
Thanks again folks.
The SO slots on the toggles can be worth 2 and a bit more attack chains to an end bar and alot of us slot toggles anyway for end because there is nowhere left to slot.
i will say its if ya find your build end heavy then look here for possible hope. 3 rechg and 3 dam is the new 6 dam slots and in pvp you may want to get as much dps from certain attacks as possible but with 2 acc in there to actually hit a def set well and then a rechg and then 3 dam or you may always be recieving alot of end buffs or your such a casual slow player who likes to chat through a mission that your end gets to recover anyway.
This is just to compare how many more attack chains you can get out of your build.
Ultimately you will have attack chains of choice with limits taking into account such things as action times and recharges. They can limit how much you can do within a build up duration etc. What you will need for what you base your build on doing changes everything.
Quickness is my rechg and i am hasted on top of that i could work it out but i dont think i need too but whilst hasted and due to action times of attacks and attack chain order a rechg in the slot could be a waste if not making too little difference anyway. But everyone needs to look at their own builds for their own plans.
He will honor his words; he will definitely carry out his actions. What he promises he will fulfill. He does not care about his bodily self, putting his life and death aside to come forward for another's troubled besiegement. He does not boast about his ability, or shamelessly extol his own virtues. - Sima Qian.
fair enough.. lol