[ QUOTE ]
Theres no such personal property in the base. We thought (on paper) that the personal items would do the trick, but it isnt really the same thing, is it?
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Yeah, to reflect what a US player said, the said "personal items" stop being personal items after they are placed. After they are placed, they are in the control of the basebuilder, who usually is just one person completely in control of the base.
Personal items use control and energy which means that more often than not, placing them is actually a negative thing. There is no such thing as a collective storage of personal items, where they would not eat energy or control and would be nonfunctional.
Related to this, if some SGmember makes, say "generator power curtain" and places it to the base. It is very likely that the basebuilder will say "Why did you do that without my permission, now we dont have enough energy to run telepads. I have to delete this." Then *poof* salvage and work done by the SGmember goes up in air. Ie. the personal items have too big connection to the function of the whole base to be allowed free placement.
Overall it falls back to the situation where all progress in base is controlled by one person, the nominated basebuilder. This takes away all the 'individual customisation' that people would like to see. Majority of members are just there to churn prestige without ever having any say over the base.
Actually the bases are very enjoyable to customize, BUT ONLY BY ONE OR AT BEST FEW PERSONS.
I say the only way to add more 'individuality' is to create personal rooms for players within which they could edit the contents of the room but not the whole base. The other option would be the allowance to create one-person bases, 'flats'. And do so without leaving the main SG. OR third way: Make editing rights more detailed. One rank to create and delete rooms, and one rank who only can change the contents. One rank who can delete salvage items. Possibility to divide the base into areas of different color and assign editing rights to those areas individually.
PS. I am the nominated basebuilder of the Goonies supergroup, who have a base of some 10 rooms,supercomputer,turbine generator etc. So I do have insight into how enjoyable it is to customize a base. I want to point out that 95% of the supergroup don't get to do the same thing. Most of them could however, they just dont want to.
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Possibility to divide the base into areas of different color and assign editing rights to those areas individually.
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This idea I like as decorative rooms have no physical purpose beyond entertainment and so I'd gladly let most people muck about with that room (hoping to install one in the larger plot whenever we can get it).
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My point: bases cost too much for what players think they deliver. What they currently deliver is the ability to create a social space for Super Groups thats potentially customizable to the groups theme/background/etc.
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Bases don't even feel like social spaces. The smallest plot has no room for social spaces if you want a functional base and the fact that you can't use it as an actual base by logging out and logging back in inside it kills any sense of it being social, a base or anything other than somewhere you occasionally go for minor QOL reasons when the loading/travel time to get to it doesn't render it redundant.
Pocket D is much more base like in so many respects. You can log out/in inside it, you can buy all the insps you will ever need there, with the update code you can get there from anywhere and it actually looks and feels like a real place rather than a grid of generic cubes with decorations scattered around.
Bases need to feel like they have a context. They need windowns, they need outdoor sections, they need irregularity and variation, they need NPC minions wandering around and operating the facilities, they need to feel like they're in the gameworld and they need to feel like they belong to the SG members. We are superheroes/villains. We should own skyscrapers, spacestations, underwater bases, tropical islands. Our bases should have monorails, arena-like training rooms, open spaces, Icon-like tailors, recreation rooms and members' quarters.
You really have to fight against the whole base system to get something that's not ugly and generic. I really enjoyed working on the NSA base (not that such a base or organisation exists) but, in the end, the amount of time you have to put in doesn't seem to warrant the results you get. And it only gets worse when the time comes to expand what you already crammed in the loathsome little square we were given to begin with.
We like our costumes because we can make them into just about anything we can think of and when we can't its fun trying to work around the limits. By comparison we have so little control over how our bases look and the whole design process is basically working around limits.
Wow. I didn't know bases disappointed me that much.
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We are superheroes/villains. We should own skyscrapers, spacestations, underwater bases, tropical islands. Our bases should have monorails, arena-like training rooms, open spaces, Icon-like tailors, recreation rooms and members' quarters.
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*applause* These would be brilliant...
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I say the only way to add more 'individuality' is to create personal rooms for players within which they could edit the contents of the room but not the whole base. The other option would be the allowance to create one-person bases, 'flats'. And do so without leaving the main SG. OR third way: Make editing rights more detailed. One rank to create and delete rooms, and one rank who only can change the contents. One rank who can delete salvage items. Possibility to divide the base into areas of different color and assign editing rights to those areas individually.
PS. I am the nominated basebuilder of the Goonies supergroup, who have a base of some 10 rooms,supercomputer,turbine generator etc. So I do have insight into how enjoyable it is to customize a base. I want to point out that 95% of the supergroup don't get to do the same thing. Most of them could however, they just dont want to.
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Pretty much hit the nail on the head there for me... its the only way i think everyone in a sg can get the enjoyment out of a super base. Individual customisable rooms for it..
Defiant
Proud Member of the Liberty Legion
Venture - Emp/En Defender
Seph - Kat/SR Scrapper
Blizzard - Ice/Storm Controller
Legionelosis - Rad/Rad Defender
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
My point: bases cost too much for what players think they deliver. What they currently deliver is the ability to create a social space for Super Groups thats potentially customizable to the groups theme/background/etc.
[/ QUOTE ]
Bases don't even feel like social spaces. The smallest plot has no room for social spaces if you want a functional base and the fact that you can't use it as an actual base by logging out and logging back in inside it kills any sense of it being social, a base or anything other than somewhere you occasionally go for minor QOL reasons when the loading/travel time to get to it doesn't render it redundant.
Pocket D is much more base like in so many respects. You can log out/in inside it, you can buy all the insps you will ever need there, with the update code you can get there from anywhere and it actually looks and feels like a real place rather than a grid of generic cubes with decorations scattered around.
Bases need to feel like they have a context. They need windowns, they need outdoor sections, they need irregularity and variation, they need NPC minions wandering around and operating the facilities, they need to feel like they're in the gameworld and they need to feel like they belong to the SG members. We are superheroes/villains. We should own skyscrapers, spacestations, underwater bases, tropical islands. Our bases should have monorails, arena-like training rooms, open spaces, Icon-like tailors, recreation rooms and members' quarters.
You really have to fight against the whole base system to get something that's not ugly and generic. I really enjoyed working on the NSA base (not that such a base or organisation exists) but, in the end, the amount of time you have to put in doesn't seem to warrant the results you get. And it only gets worse when the time comes to expand what you already crammed in the loathsome little square we were given to begin with.
We like our costumes because we can make them into just about anything we can think of and when we can't its fun trying to work around the limits. By comparison we have so little control over how our bases look and the whole design process is basically working around limits.
Wow. I didn't know bases disappointed me that much.
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QFT
The base concept is fantastic, the execution is woefully lacking. Id love windows and doors surely that cant be to hard. How about 6 window views (space, underwater, tropical, underground, skyscraper, Shadow Shard) each displaying a different outside view depending on the wall its stuck on (N,S, E, W).
I'd love for all the features you just suggested to be added. NPc's surely shouldnt be hard, you could also add functionality into them:
Chief Engineer (boosts power by 10%)
Chief Controller (boosts control by 10%)
or something.
I'd love to see all your room designs make it into the game but in the short term i'd like to see all currently available cox ones make it in. How come mision maps arent just a series of cubes, how come they can have floors, doors and split levels.. and im sure the editing software could be made more user friendly, hell swipe it from the sims if you cant think of anything better...
Defiant
Proud Member of the Liberty Legion
Venture - Emp/En Defender
Seph - Kat/SR Scrapper
Blizzard - Ice/Storm Controller
Legionelosis - Rad/Rad Defender
Burning Fist post is awesome. I enjoy building the base of one of my SGs - The Eclipse of Evil - piece by piece, but I feel the lack of the exact same things that he pointed out as missing.
Moreover, upgrade plots cost way too much in prestige. I know that it's meant to make people expand the SGs and play, play, play, but the smallest plot is just too small for what it costs - or the bigger ones are too expensive.
My SG is made by people who enjoy the game very much, but we cannot spend all our time in playing COH. We are not students with a lot of time to spend home, we are all working and we cannot give up social life completely just to be able to build a bigger base.
Just my two cents.
For anyone who missed it, there is a, (if you'll excuse me), pretty bloody fantastic base thread right here on the European forums too.
It's packed with ideas on how to improve bases and what's wrong with the current system and it wouldn't hurt to keep it in the forefront of the forum there by adding ideas to it - if we keep poking the base problems in Statesman's eye, then he might finally blink and do something about it.
[ QUOTE ]
I say the only way to add more 'individuality' is to create personal rooms for players within which they could edit the contents of the room but not the whole base. The other option would be the allowance to create one-person bases, 'flats'. And do so without leaving the main SG. OR third way: Make editing rights more detailed. One rank to create and delete rooms, and one rank who only can change the contents. One rank who can delete salvage items. Possibility to divide the base into areas of different color and assign editing rights to those areas individually
[/ QUOTE ]
I think the above quote is by far the best idea , along with some flexibility in the base editing tool to make bases more SG/VG friendly.
i think the best way to fix alot of complanets about bases is to also bring into the game aparments that players can or cant buy using there own inf you can then add a portal to player apartments inside a base or accesible from the base portal already there
this means sgs still get the gathering place sg teleporters and the control of only a small group the management using up the prestige to build or edit the base acording to sg needs as well as giving people something of there own to completly personalise as they see fit.
There isnt a problem on earth that cant be solved with the proper aplication of hi explosive's
Darklords of the Underworld/Lords of Light forums [url="http://www.armleg.com/dlotu"]www.armleg.com/dlotu[/url]
Scotlands Bru ill/emp troller lvl 50
Monster Bru SS/stone brute lvl 50
Carman thugs/dark mm lvl 50
Other MMOs give each player houses. Would it not be cool to have a floor or larger SGs so people can be assigned rooms in a super group?
From here on the US forums:
[Answering various issues raised by players - the unindented stuff is from States, the "Quote:" stuff the original player points]
I read this thread thoroughly on Friday and tried to digest all of the good stuff here. I wanted to give some responses to your points & questions. I know Posi and I are constantly thinking of ways that we can improve bases; our eyes are glued to the Base feedback on these forums!
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Obviously because the cost of bases is not 'minimal'
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Bingo! That was the point of my presentation; that the cost exceeds perceived value. The current ability to customize a social space for ones Super Group isnt thought to be high enough to justify the Prestige amounts.
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Ya know what another thing I just thought of would help too?
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PVE base raids that you could bring non-SG members on.
Heck, Id just like the PvE base raid part first!
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And they're hidden away, effectively in their own dimension. Other people can see my costume and go 'wow' simply by my flying past. To see my base, they have to be in a coalition with me, or on my team while we go there (and for that to happen, we need to have a reason for them to go, other than me saying 'come check out the base'). They can't simply happen across it and go 'wow!'
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Interesting point! Some people can see your base, but its so much easier for people to see your costume.
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Few people care about the aesthetics of bases. It's just not obviously an expression of one's self, especially if it's been designed by 20+ people, or by someone else. That's the crucial difference between costumes and bases.
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If no one cares about the aesthetics of bases, it all comes down to function ... and there's not a whole lot of function in there.
But costumes dont provide ANY gameplay function and people care a WHOLE lot about them? My point: bases cost too much for what players think they deliver. What they currently deliver is the ability to create a social space for Super Groups thats potentially customizable to the groups theme/background/etc.
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Cryptic has failed to deliver an advertised feature of CoV in a working format a full callendar year after the game went live. Had the Cathedral of Pain and Base Raids showed up in anything vaguely resembling a timely manner, there would probably be a much higher level of interest in Bases, despite the flaws in the system that many posters have listed here. For whatever reason, whether it be lack of staff resources, focus shifting to other priorities or indeed other projects at Cryptic, this is a pretty big failure on Cryptic's part.
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You are absolutely right. We are working as hard as we can, but that doesnt excuse it.
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The reoccurring theme in this thread isn't you folks at Cryptic perpetrated some horrible sin, but that in making a post-mortem of the Bases feature implementation you seem to emphasize it's lack of popularity is more due to the fickleness of players, than the bugginess or kludgeyness of the product. There's several prominent functional design flaws and bugs with Bases that have yet to be fixed, in addition to some conceptual flaws. To the company's credit, you have begun to address them, but the finish line is not just around the corner.
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We(Cryptic) assumed a certain value to bases which clearly doesnt match up with players perceptions. We assumed that customizability, some gameplay features, layout control, etc. would be considered worth X, but players think its X-Y. That means WE were wrong. No fickleness involved, just something we didnt identify well.
But it shows human behavior (and this was the point of my talk): people LOVE individuality. Theyre willing to express it. But they wont consider (in game) it worth a lot of time/effort to create a space thats customized for group identity. Clearly, people dont mind group identity (hence, super group costumes) and they love their own personal costume creation.
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A point well made. Jack's comparison of bases to costumes is wildly off because I control my costume. I help pay for my base, yet none of it is my creation.
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Yet a Super Group costume isnt your creation, either. And yet people wear them. The counterpoint is, of course, that a Super Group costume is in addition to ones normal costume, not instead of. Theres no such personal property in the base. We thought (on paper) that the personal items would do the trick, but it isnt really the same thing, is it?