Such is the wonderful world of defending I'm afraid. The 'healer' tag is the bane of our existence. Glad you had a good experience beforehand though. 
@Dante EU - Union Roleplayer and Altisis Victim
The Militia: Union RP Supergroup - www.themilitia.org.uk
Not a personal moment, but I always remember Xanthus getting in to PUG's with me on his Sonic Defender and, upon being asked if he can heal, he just replies with 'Yes. I can run around and give you respites.'
Great story!... Had a good laugh there. Keep up the good work. Defenders FTW!
I joined a team with my trick archer. First thing i check for was how well the tank was going to keep villains in my debuff zone. Upon checking i realised there was no aggro control capability but for using gauntlet which is not good news for me. "Gauntlet is not autohit!"
Anyway i also noticed that at their height of level 34 they had 3 debt badges, I was like omg! Thats 800k of debt paid off!
With a a decent enough controller in the team i just had to stay to see how comical the tank was and lets just say i was not disappointed.
He will honor his words; he will definitely carry out his actions. What he promises he will fulfill. He does not care about his bodily self, putting his life and death aside to come forward for another's troubled besiegement. He does not boast about his ability, or shamelessly extol his own virtues. - Sima Qian.
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Anyway i also noticed that at their height of level 34 they had 3 debt badges, I was like omg! Thats 800k of debt paid off!
[/ QUOTE ]34? Pfft, I had 3rd damage and debt badges by L31 with an empath 
If it was frosty I would understand the need for more healers 
But Atta is just a big green baby :P
I say frosty, mainly as a lot of melee builds can be really poor at low lvls (my spines/dark scrapper I refused to team 'till he got to lvl 10, and some tanks can really suck).
Its a common symptom of the game genre though, everything seems to have a healer type thrown in and it is often expected... I was on a good set of frosty missions today with my empath, and people said how good my healing was..But from my point of view I could of left my cat in charge of my chatacter, as I was pre buff powers all I could do was healing aura and heal other...Two buttons over..and over..and over again.
To be fair being a "healer" is not a bad thing, neither is it a bad thing to want in a team, would you rather have a "healer" or try to rely on a debuffer defender that you picked up in a PuG ?
Who may or may not know how to play a debuffer..
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To be fair being a "healer" is not a bad thing, neither is it a bad thing to want in a team, would you rather have a "healer" or try to rely on a debuffer defender that you picked up in a PuG ?
Who may or may not know how to play a debuffer..
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Debuffing is straight forward and easy to tell someone when exactly its better to debuff. Its getting a team that plays to suit the debuffer thats the biggest problem.
There is huge lack of players with any understanding of how other players toons work and its as if they expect everything to go as well as it could do by some sheer miracle.
When i lead a team i take any defender and i kick the first person who refuses to assist the defender through playstyle.
He will honor his words; he will definitely carry out his actions. What he promises he will fulfill. He does not care about his bodily self, putting his life and death aside to come forward for another's troubled besiegement. He does not boast about his ability, or shamelessly extol his own virtues. - Sima Qian.
Alas, this is the reason why I always state in my Defender's team search "Not a healer". (But then the people who think like this often don't read them...) Sure I have Twilight Grasp, but it's never going to be as effective as an Empath's heals. But try explaining that to a team who see the green lights going off later on.
"Y u say u not healr?"
"I have one heal, my powers lie in debuffing."
"U heal so u r healr"
Such an event leads swiftly to me leaving the team. There just seems to be a large number of players out there who don't seem to realise that some Defenders can make sure that they don't get hit in the first place so that they won't even need a healer. Sigh
I'm just hoping it gets better at later levels...
@Dante EU - Union Roleplayer and Altisis Victim
The Militia: Union RP Supergroup - www.themilitia.org.uk
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Sure I have Twilight Grasp, but it's never going to be as effective as an Empath's heals.
[/ QUOTE ]Actually, it's more powerful.
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Sure I have Twilight Grasp, but it's never going to be as effective as an Empath's heals.
[/ QUOTE ]Actually, it's more powerful.
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being more powerful doesn't necessarily make it as effective though
It still needs you to hit to heal and you can't target someone who needs a quick heal without running up and standing near them and hoping they don't run away. In most low lvl PuGs I would say that makes it pretty ineffective compared to an empath who, as someone says above, could be played by a cat at the low lvls to make an effective difference
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Sure I have Twilight Grasp, but it's never going to be as effective as an Empath's heals.
[/ QUOTE ]Actually, it's more powerful.
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being more powerful doesn't necessarily make it as effective though
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Well said and entirely true.
Right on the subject of Defenders and the "Y U no heal?!" teams.... (warning incomming rant)
My 50 is an Emp/Nrg as many of you know, I also have a Rad/Rad a Sonic/Psi and have played all the defender primaries excpet TA atm a bit. The big issue here is people who fail to see the difference between Defending and Healing they are not the same thing, a defender (any defender) can be the lynchpin of a top team. The way its done by each set is the big trick, Empathy is the mighty heal bot and is as Psygon stated easier to play at low levels though I would argue its a serious challenge to learn to do it well at higher levels, sadly the Emp has become for some the iconic defender and so they look for heals from all defs, I am a huge Empathy fan but I also love the other defender sets, they are never going to heal the way an emp does but you need less heals if ...
1. The enemy can't hit you. or
2. Its nigh impossible for the enemy to deal any real damage. or
3. The enemy cant get to you.
and so on...
The idea that a defender = a heal bot is a load of old.... anyway. A good defender can make a decent team great, and just as with any AT there are many, many ways to skin the proverbial feline and if your team is protesting that you cant heal em you are dealing with people who dont understand the Defender AT, my advice...
Try to explain to them. If they don't listen then leave at least you tried and its their loss.
Many apologies if that turned into a rant but this issue is one of my biggest niggles in game and so I may be a tad opinionated on it. As ever all just my humble 2ps worth and no offence ment to anyone
Cheers,
White 
I wouldn't worry about the rant, it's my most hated thing in the game too. Unfortunately, it comes with the territory. I think it's probably just hang over from fantasy games where there's a priest class or some sort who just heals.
And yes, trying to explain things like range and tohit stats to bad teams is just a waste of time. 
@Dante EU - Union Roleplayer and Altisis Victim
The Militia: Union RP Supergroup - www.themilitia.org.uk
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Many apologies if that turned into a rant but this issue is one of my biggest niggles in game and so I may be a tad opinionated on it.
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I think many non-Empath Defenders have held that view for at least a short period of time.
On the way to reaching 50 with my scrapper, I played around with an ill/emp troller (lvl 33 now).
Didnt really got on with the support role and as such never tried a defender, until recently.
I currently have a lvl 27 kin/elec and its loads of fun and really effective in a team.
However I find its not the healing at all thats makes the difference, its the end drain properties of my secondary and transference that prevent the mobs from hitting ppl at all.
Add to that speed boost, siphon power and the soon (hopefully) to be attained FS, and you get a toon that almost doesnt need the heal except for himself as he spends all his time in melee range.
I certainly dont see a defenders role as simply a healer, but maybe did before I rolled one myself. 
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However I find its not the healing at all thats makes the difference, its the end drain properties of my secondary and transference that prevent the mobs from hitting ppl at all.
Add to that speed boost, siphon power and the soon (hopefully) to be attained FS, and you get a toon that almost doesnt need the heal except for himself as he spends all his time in melee range.
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The role of my kin is about keeping the team going at full speed, plenty of damage buffs, speed boosts, lots of endurance and extra accuracy ( from Tactics ). I don't consider him to be a healer and as you say my heal is often for my benefit or to be used as a debuff. When I play my Kinetic defender I don't pay take as much responsibility for the other members of the team's safety as I do if I'm playing a tank or my Dark Defender. The drain in Short Circuit is good, but is a massive aggro generator when you don't have a tank stood next to you.
@Unthing ... Mostly on Union.
My main was a FF defender.
Had great time with him and had a few teams that went why don't you heal?
At which point I'd politely tell them to wait and see what I can do.
Wasn't long till they loved bubbles. hehehe.
Later game it's not as bad luckily, by then people have caught on (USUALLY) that Defenders of any kind are a handy thing to have with different skills.
I've recently started an empath.
Loving it to bits got to admit.
So far haven't had any complaints and a lot of complements.
Still, I hate it when I get a tell from someone asking if I can heal.
Yes, I am playing a empathy defender and yes I do heal, but *sigh* that's not all I can do.
But surely enough, at times when playing other chars and I hear the words "we need a healer" I usually get a bossy and tell 'em to get it in line and work as a team and we won't.... sometimes taking over completely and telling people what to do and sure enough with good co-ordination a team made up of any combination of players can do amazing things.
(I seem to be pulling my own chain, tee-hee)
There do seem to be a large lack of Empaths around though I've found, not surprising really. Nothing worse than people only wanting you to be their heal bot.
I think the next time I have someone say we need a healer, i'm going to go tell them to go and roll one then. :P
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I think the next time I have someone say we need a healer, i'm going to go tell them to go and roll one then. :P
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LMAO We should adopt this as the standard responce to all the "hlz plis... why not heal... what you mean debuff??!!.. OMG ... no hlz .. h4x!!" teams
hmmm that might have been a tad harsh ... ooops
Cheers,
White
I've just taken to saying "no" on all of my defenders if I get a random tell invite consisting of, "r u h43l0r?" because it usually means the team is sucking and feel they need an empath to suddenly make them play better, or the leader just has no idea what powers his team has or how to coordinate them effectively. Either way the h43l0r thing is a good warning to stay well away.
I remember being on some pretty good teams on my stormy after being asked if I could come and heal the team.
I still do not see what is bad about being a healer.
At low lvls all an empath/random can do is provide healing and a bit of fire support.
As long as they are having fun, and the team is having fun who cares?
Certainly ALL defenders are not "healers" , but its kinda silly to get irrate because SOME defenders are.
Its not the fault of the players, it is the fault of the MMO industry. To much of it based around trying to be generic, even to the extent of using phrases and terminology from other games
Numbers of active Empaths dropped recently, and Im betting a lot of it was due to the "Defenders not healers we l337 debuffers!!!!111!!" attitude that seemed to become prevalent.
Healers and Buffers/Debuffers are all valuable members of a team..And all are welcome in any team I form/play in.
In the end we use the powers we have, and try to have fun and keep our team alive, it does not matter if we use healing,buffs or debuffs. In the end we are defenders and im pretty sure we'd throw our kindeys or dance naked at the enemy if it would help our team
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Certainly ALL defenders are not "healers" , but its kinda silly to get irrate because SOME defenders are.
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Some? AFAIK, empathy is the only one you can class as a healer. Name any other set with heals? As in, plural?
I was talking with regards to individual defenders not power sets. Even so it does not change the fact that being a healer is NOT bad.
Yes it is a pain when people assume that all defenders are healers ,especialy when you are blatantly not (us poor TA/A defenders for example).. But to then turn around and say that "defenders are not healers" is just as wrong.
Oh don't get me wrong, I have played an Empath Defender in the past and they can be great fun, running around, making sure everyone's buffed and healed. (Had TP Friend as well, made me quite popular with the Hollows crowd!) I don't deny that they're great and yes, if I'm playing a different alt that night, seeing one on the team brings a great relief. I just wish that we didn't get all tarred with the same brush.
Personally, I don't call myself a healer simply because it's not what I'm looking out for when I play my Dark Defender. I'll be watching whether the enemy's debuffed and under control, not whether any of my team-mates are dipping into the red (well ok, just a little). Therefore, I simply won't be as effective simply because my attention is focussed elsewhere. Plus, my heals and rezzes are very situational so I would prefer that people didn't rely on them.
@Dante EU - Union Roleplayer and Altisis Victim
The Militia: Union RP Supergroup - www.themilitia.org.uk
I feel I should clarify as I am concerned you misinturpreted my post, and if so please accept my appologies.
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I still do not see what is bad about being a healer.
At low lvls all an empath/random can do is provide healing and a bit of fire support.
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I for one certainly didn't say healing was bad as I state in my post my 50 is an Empath and I love it
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Certainly ALL defenders are not "healers" , but its kinda silly to get irrate because SOME defenders are.
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Again not at all what I said, in fact it is the fact that some small part of the players I come across expect a Defender to be a healer and can complain if you aren't that irks me at times and I should point out that I know alot of people who have a far better attitude, very much like the fun first one you yourself seem to have.
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Its not the fault of the players, it is the fault of the MMO industry. To much of it based around trying to be generic, even to the extent of using phrases and terminology from other games
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Agreed to an extent but I still dislike, as I am guessing from your post you do, people expecting something from anyone else before finding out, by for example asking, what the truth is.
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Numbers of active Empaths dropped recently, and Im betting a lot of it was due to the "Defenders not healers we l337 debuffers!!!!111!!" attitude that seemed to become prevalent.
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Not an attitude I hold and not one held by any of the debuffers I know but I do understand it is going on.
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Healers and Buffers/Debuffers are all valuable members of a team..And all are welcome in any team I form/play in.
In the end we use the powers we have, and try to have fun and keep our team alive, it does not matter if we use healing,buffs or debuffs. In the end we are defenders and im pretty sure we'd throw our kindeys or dance naked at the enemy if it would help our team
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Well put and I am in full agreement... well maybe not with the kidney bit 
I sincerly hope that my post has not been misinturpreted as a healers and emps are bad rant as nothing could be further away from my own point of view.
All the ATs and sets have their place and it is a blend of abilties that a good team is formed, I just dislike the small section of closed minded people who look for all defenders to heal, all controllers to AoE hold, all Tankers to take a ton of damage and do next to none, etc
Variation FTW!
Cheers,
White
I just wanted to share two stories from yesterday because I found it extraordinary to find myself in an amazing team and an absolutely dire team in the space of a few hours.
First I was on my 30 TA/Sonic in a team consisting of a 32 ice/fire tanker, 30 fire/rad controller and 29 fire/fire tanker. It was an invincible mission of the 32 so the mobs were 34-35 and consisted of council vs nemesis with some crey ambushes that came from behind at a couple of points. The mission was set for 5 as there was an elec blaster afk forever outside that joined briefly towards the end. We absolutely tore the place up. Everything worked perfectly with the ice tanker diving in, adjacent spawns already flashed, the TA and rad debuffs going down on the tightly bunched spawn, followed by fire cages, oil slick and much burning ensued. It was just crazy that we were surviving and the 30s walked out with 2.5 bars XP from one mission. There were two deaths which were the 29 fire tanker pulling at one point and the fire controller randomly pulling with fire cages when he intended to smoke instead.
Then later in the day I was on my 12 Dark/Archery defender and got an invite to an Atta mission, which was already half completed (not a good sign). There was a whole group of people but the fighting was utterly chaotic. The ice tanker had chilling embrace but never switched it on. The invuln tanker was about as invuln as a piece of tissue paper. The mobs were +4s to me. We came across a particulary bad section of the map (I'm sure people know where I mean if I say the T-Junction of death) and I'm trying to politely make a suggestion because I know what's going to happen. I wanted to cluster the mobs on the corner after a ranged pull, with a tar patch and an ice tanker standing on it running chilling embrace, so that darkest night covered them all and they all got tar patched but the tanker just tells me, "me and *the other tanker* work as a team, you just heal." I also ask for an SK up to 14 but no luck there. Needless to say the team wipes spectacularly under a stampede of trolls and everyone suddenly has to help their SG and leave. Someone in the team sends me a private tell saying how bad the team was and I agreed, pointing out what we could have done to make life a breeze and gotten tons of XP. He just replies by saying, "naah, they just need healers."
Sorry for the long winded post but I felt like sharing some highs and lows of defenderdom. I have no idea what's in store for me tonight but then that's half the fun of the game isn't it.