Dark/Dark Defender. Any recomendations?


Avalanche_EU

 

Posted

Many months ago when I 1st started playing CoH I rolled a Dark/Dark Defender,for a number of reasons I ditched him at about level 9.

I have now started another and gotten her to level 4. I have a leveling build worked out on the planner but before I post it I thought I would ask for some general comments/advice on the two power sets. things I'm after finding out about are:

What are the good powers and what can I safely skip?

What kind of slotting do you like to give the different powers?

Any suggested builds?

My plan is to solo my way to level 10 so I will take the early Dark Blast attacks slotted for accuracy and damage. After that I will be looking to get more team friendly.

My "plan" is for a character that does not do much damage but can debuff an enemy to the point of uselessness.

So, over to the experts. All comments gratefully appreciated.


 

Posted

Good place to check is the Dark Miasma guide Dark Miasma Guide

My Dark/Dark is lvl 17 atm and I have the first 5 Dark Powers all of which are must haves except Howling Twilight. I found having so many of the primary set I dont need stamina ASAP so I'm getting it around 26.


thePhilosopher Martial Arts/Regen/Fire Scrapper
theRegulator Empathy/Energy/Soul Defender
Total Inertia Ice Blast/Kinetics/Psy Corruptor
Total Inferno Ice Blast/Thermal/Leviathan Corruptor

 

Posted

I managed without Stamina all the way to 50. Depends on your build.

Get Fearsome Stare as soon as you can and slot for acc. Tar Patch and Darkest Night are great at lower levels but be wary if using on a team where all the aggro will come to you if you use them (mainly DN rather than tar patch). Get a couple of acc in Twilight Grasp as you don't want it to miss - use it to debuff those bosses too.


 

Posted

From my own experience the must/should haves (with my personal slotting suggestions and comments) are:

[u]Dark Miasma[u]

Darkest Night - 3/4 slotted with acc debuff and combined with some +DEF powers you can avoid a large portion of attacks. Some end reduction helps if you use it as much as I tend to.

Twilight Grasp - 3 slotted with heals, and some acc, recharge of your choosing helps regain health for those attcks which did do damage, and also a great team heal. Also the optional end reduction.

Shadow Fall - Great for its Psionic protection alone, and helps a little with the aformentioned +DEF, but the +RES is far more important, so slot with 3 +RES and probably some end reduction.

Fearsome Stare - Effectively removes minions from any battle, allowing you to concentrate on the lieutenants. Best combined with tar patch to avoid scattering. 2 fear enhancments and a couple of acc make it very effective.

Petryfying Gaze - An awesome hold, very handy for tough lieutenants, and can be stacked to hold bosses, and with a little help AVs. 3 hold enhancements an acc and an end red help make sure that mob stays well and truly held.

Dark Servant - Basically another copy of you that regularly uses holds, immobilizes and heals, he also has a small aura (minor damage, -ACC), but thats hard to get into play.

Tar Patch - While very useful I left this power out myself until around the 40s. It does provide a nice -RES and SLOW on enemies, but with the amount of useful powers in the dark miasma set, along with the essential pool powers and 2 attacks I found it was the one I could wait for longest.

Howling Twilight - The Rez power to have (area of effect), up to personal choice if you take it or not though.

The only real power to avoid is black hole which phase shifts enemies, and so can be more annoying than useful if you've got to wait for enemies to shift back, and Cone/AoE attacks that could hit them are less effective, better to just hold and fear the mobs to the point that they wont attack anyway.

[u]Dark Blast[u]

I only took 2 powers from this set, partly because theres just so many in miasma that are useful, and partly because I was going for a character that could take, rather than deal damage, and he sure can take damage well. The two I took are:

Dark Blast - Your basic attack, and reasonable damage.

Moonbeam - A very handy snipe for pulling single mobs and helpful in soloing as well, if thats the way you want to go.

Some people tend to take tenebrous tentacles for the immobilize, but I found it wasn't all that necessary, when fluffy (dark servant) has the power anyway and uses it alot, and while it helps with scatter from fear it was an acceptable loss. I did try night fall myself at one point for cone damage, but being a defender means it was generally not worth the cost again for the little damage it offered.

[u]Pool Powers[u]

To compliemnt my build I went for the standard swift/health/stamina, and hasten powers. But as I mentioned when you combine the -ACC of darkest night with some +DEF you have a great chance to avoid all damage, so I personally took combat jumping (+DEF), super jump (Travel) and acrobatics (for the state resist, which were weak against). I also took all of leadership, again for state resists, the nice damage bonus, accuracy bonus, and the little +DEF.

Hope this info helps


 

Posted

[ QUOTE ]
Tar Patch - While very useful I left this power out myself until around the 40s. It does provide a nice -RES and SLOW on enemies, but with the amount of useful powers in the dark miasma set, along with the essential pool powers and 2 attacks I found it was the one I could wait for longest.


[/ QUOTE ]

This is a really great power and should be got asap, especially when combined with someone AoE heavy like a fire blaster or spiney scrapper the mobs dont last long even at low level


thePhilosopher Martial Arts/Regen/Fire Scrapper
theRegulator Empathy/Energy/Soul Defender
Total Inertia Ice Blast/Kinetics/Psy Corruptor
Total Inferno Ice Blast/Thermal/Leviathan Corruptor

 

Posted

[ QUOTE ]

Tar Patch - While very useful I left this power out myself until around the 40s. It does provide a nice -RES and SLOW on enemies, but with the amount of useful powers in the dark miasma set, along with the essential pool powers and 2 attacks I found it was the one I could wait for longest.


[/ QUOTE ]Repeat after me:
You always take AoE resistance debuffs ASAP
You always take AoE resistance debuffs ASAP
You always take AoE resistance debuffs ASAP
You always take AoE resistance debuffs ASAP
You always take AoE resistance debuffs ASAP
...
...
...
You always take AoE resistance debuffs ASAP

Is that clear?


 

Posted

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Tar Patch - While very useful I left this power out myself until around the 40s. It does provide a nice -RES and SLOW on enemies, but with the amount of useful powers in the dark miasma set, along with the essential pool powers and 2 attacks I found it was the one I could wait for longest.


[/ QUOTE ]

This is a really great power and should be got asap, especially when combined with someone AoE heavy like a fire blaster or spiney scrapper the mobs dont last long even at low level

[/ QUOTE ]

Also Resistance Debuffs amplify damage debuffs. So the 40% resistance debuffs from Tar patch makes the 40% damage debuff from Darkest Night into a 56% debuff.

If I was making a Dark defender I would get Twilight Grasp ( single target debuff + AoE heal ), Darkest Night and Tar Patch ( not sure of the order ) and then probably Fearsome Stare.

Thinking about it there really only is one safely skippable power in the Dark Miasma set and that is Black Hole. The next most skippable are probably Shadow Fall and Howling Twilight, however both are awesome powers. Howling Twilight is good just for the control and debuff effects, the fact that it is also the best res in the game is good too.


@Unthing ... Mostly on Union.

 

Posted

Personally think that tar patch and DN are the two you should take earliest. Whilst TG is a good heal it misses too much at the lower levels. Combining tar and DN gives you effectively almost 50% res, a nice to hit debuff and a great boost to damage at level 2! Whats not to like about that?


 

Posted

My personal picks and slotting preferences, with the order blatently cannibalised from Chisel's post.

Dark Miasma

Darkest Night - 3 slots of tohit debuff, plus a slot of end red, although I now have three slots of HO debuff/end red in mine */em flexes*. Use it, love it.

Twilight Grasp - I currently go for 2 heals, 2 accs and 2 recharges. Not only is it a very good PBAoE heal, but it is also a very useful debuff, harming a mobs accuracy and (iirc) damage, plus mullering their health regen, which is invaluable against AV's.

Shadow Fall - 3 slots of res, one slot of end red, and then start saying things like, "psychic clockwork? Pah, I mock them". Also provides protection from fear powers.

Fearsome Stare - A power I would give at least 12 slots if I could. The fear effect will work on minions and lts (provided they don't resist it, like most robots or Nemesis troops), but requires stacking against bosses. In addition to the fear, there is also a hefty to hit debuff attached. I currently slot it 1 acc/mez duration HO, 1 acc, 1 fear, 1 to hit debuff and 2 recharges.

Petryfying Gaze - Useful, but not essential. I go for 2 acc, 2 hold, 1 recharge.

Dark Servant - The best to hit debuff in the game, bar none. Uses darkest night, twilight grasp, tenebrous tentacles petrifying gaze and chill of the night. CotN is an aura that does minor damage, but a massive (as in a lot bigger than DN) to hit debuff. Because of this, use recall friend to get fluffy to stand on top of AVs. I slot him 1 acc, 3 to hit debuffs and 1 recharge, but I am probably the only person in the game to stick a recharge in, so ignore that one.

Tar Patch - Top notch -res debuff. Three recharges, plus some slow if you want, but not needed if you take TT really.

Howling Twilight - I tend to leave it to the late 20s. Good for impressive multi-res situations, also useful for the mez/debuff auto hit effects, including -res. Intersting fact I discovered last night: While in RV nabbing AVs, I was using it in an attempt to hit Makos regen while he was in MoG (yes, he can do that). Every time I tried it he ran. The big girl. I only use 1 recharge in it, though some slot it as a PBAoE mez.

Black hole is a pain, and I'd recomend not taking it, though it may have PvP applications.

Dark Blast

I go for Dark Blast, Moonbeam, Tenebrous Tentacles, Nightfall and the Blackstar. Slotting tends to be 2acc, 3 damage, 1 recharge (no recharge on the nuke), although I like to put a range in TT, as it then lines up with Nightfall's cone better. Next respec I may switch Moonbeam to Gloom, or fit them both in. Life drain is pointless when you have twilight grasp, dark pit has awful acc and only affects minions and torrent causes knockback which is a pain with a tightly clustered Darkest Night group in a tar patch.

Pools
I currently go for the fitness pool (swift, hurdle, stamina), the SS pool (hasten+SS, SS stacks with SF for full invis in PvE), the tp pool (recall friend for fluffy wrangling and getting people in place for HT) and the flight pool (hover+fly, hover for KB protection, fly for vertical movement and fun). I am toying with a fitnessless build though.

I've gone for Dark Mastery, taking the end recharge thingy which has a stupid recharge time, the shield which is very good, and Soul Drain, which is a great solo fulcrum shift thing.


Dead Calm's Defender Manifesto

 

Posted

[ QUOTE ]

Black hole is a pain, and I'd recomend not taking it, though it may have PvP applications.


[/ QUOTE ]

Oh it's great for the comedy value when combined with Tactics. Watch those stalkers sneaking around eying you up as a target. Then watch them power up and rush in. Then watch as they stand there trying to figure out why they can't hit you. Just don't gloat for too long as the duration seems shorter than 30 seconds in PvP.


 

Posted

Excellent stuff!

Thanks for all the comments so far and please, keep them coming.

Re the Dark Miasma Guide, an excellent source of info I agree and it was reading that, which prompted me to give the set another go and roll this toon.

In my build plan so far I did not take Moonbeam. I reckon with Dark Blast, Gloom, Twighlight Grasp and Tar Patch I "should be safe getting to level 10 solo after which I will do more teaming and will not need more damage output.

For travel power I have gone for TP foe and then later TP for myself. My plan is to TP a foe into range of any fallen teammates in order to use Howling Twighlight.

I have not included Shadow Fall as it slows you down when in use and my plan is that badguys will be too debuffed to hit me anyway so I will not need its protection. (Stop laughing at the back!!!)

Also with combinations of Tar Patch and Tenebrous Tentacles in effect they will be unable to even get to me! (I said stop laughing!!)

I have not taken Haste in the build so far as I reckon with my differing recharge rates I should ALWAYS have a few useful powers available while others recharge and so still be useful to the team. (If you don't stop laughing THIS instant I will send you to the headmaster!)

I have taken Black Hole purely as an emergency power for use in cases of "Aggro Avalanche".

I have also considered not taking Stamina and relying on Vigilance to handle any end problems. (RIGHT report to the headmasters office right now!!!)

My otheer issue, given the huge range of powers he can fire
off is how to slot the Dark Servant. Do I give him a mix of enhancements or focus on just one of them like fear or the to hit debuff?

Ok, given the above info, apart from "You need a huggy jacket!" what do you think.


 

Posted

Here you go.

[ QUOTE ]
Re the Dark Miasma Guide, an excellent source of info I agree and it was reading that, which prompted me to give the set another go and roll this toon.

[/ QUOTE ]
Have a search on the US forums for Blackest Night's guide, as it is also very good.

[ QUOTE ]
In my build plan so far I did not take Moonbeam. I reckon with Dark Blast, Gloom, Twighlight Grasp and Tar Patch I "should be safe getting to level 10 solo after which I will do more teaming and will not need more damage output.

[/ QUOTE ]
Dark Blast and Gloom should see you through as far as single target attacks go. I may well respec moonbeam out to include gloom myself. I'd also include Nightfall in there, as Nightfall+TT+fearsome stare give you a cone chain of ULTIMATE CONTROL AND DESTRUCTION. Ahem. Sorry.

[ QUOTE ]
For travel power I have gone for TP foe and then later TP for myself. My plan is to TP a foe into range of any fallen teammates in order to use Howling Twighlight.

[/ QUOTE ]
A popular tactic. I'd recomend taking recall friend as well, as it a) lets you do the reverse, and b) Will let you place fluffy where you want, which is particularly useful when he decideds that some lab equipment is more of a threat than the AV standing on your face.

[ QUOTE ]
I have not included Shadow Fall as it slows you down when in use and my plan is that badguys will be too debuffed to hit me anyway so I will not need its protection. (Stop laughing at the back!!!)

[/ QUOTE ]
I'd highly recomend taking it. People will bow down to you for psi protection later on. Also, the slow effect was removed around I5ish, so it's now no longer an issue.

[ QUOTE ]
Also with combinations of Tar Patch and Tenebrous Tentacles in effect they will be unable to even get to me! (I said stop laughing!!)

[/ QUOTE ]
Very true. With TT, Tar Patch, Fearsome Stare and PG it is very like playing a pocket controller.

[ QUOTE ]
I have not taken Haste in the build so far as I reckon with my differing recharge rates I should ALWAYS have a few useful powers available while others recharge and so still be useful to the team. (If you don't stop laughing THIS instant I will send you to the headmaster!)

[/ QUOTE ]Haste is useful but by no means needed. D3s tend to be very busy at the begining of a fight, but after the first 10 seconds or so usually blast away while bunging out a TG or two.

[ QUOTE ]
I have taken Black Hole purely as an emergency power for use in cases of "Aggro Avalanche".

[/ QUOTE ]
Fearsome stare works far, far better in about 95% of cases for this. If you really want to take it, try it on test first, ideally in a team situation.

[ QUOTE ]
I have also considered not taking Stamina and relying on Vigilance to handle any end problems. (RIGHT report to the headmasters office right now!!!)

[/ QUOTE ]I've played a non-stamina build on test before, and it seems ok. If/When they give out another freespec I'll probably use my current one before it to try it on live.

[ QUOTE ]
My otheer issue, given the huge range of powers he can fire
off is how to slot the Dark Servant. Do I give him a mix of enhancements or focus on just one of them like fear or the to hit debuff?

[/ QUOTE ]
The to hit debuff is the important part, as every single power fluffy has aside from petrifying gaze does this. As to other slots, an acc is useful but not essential, as fluffy is very accurate anyway. Holds or heals are popular.


Dead Calm's Defender Manifesto

 

Posted

I'd agree with all that.

Re: Stamina. I went without it my whole career and managed even when running two leadership toggles, Shadow Fall and DN. If I attacked lots and kept Super Speed on all mission I struggled so carefull toggle management can be needed (Do I really need Assault on for this mish etc..). By the time I got to 50 I had even more toggles but also Conserve Power and Geas of the Kind ones which evened it out a bit. Having Stamina would make things easier but you gain three power choices by skipping it so.... Just watch the insp drops and make sure you always have a few cabs handy.

Re: Black Hole. Whilst I feel this power is dismissed far too quickly by most people and have made it my quest to get more Hole Lovin' going ( ), I agree that you will very rarely use it most of the time. That said I probably use it as much as tp foe so...

Fearsome Stare is much better but it has a quite long recharge and if you have just used it, Black Hole is the next best power to use to take out a whole spawn without leaving you a fair bit of aggro. Well, for 30 seconds anyway after which they all come straight for you if the rest of the team doesn't come to help you.

I have tp foe and recall friend but I'd take recall first as you can stack dead bodies for rez along with the other reason Dead Calm listed.


 

Posted

[ QUOTE ]
I have made it my quest to get more Hole Lovin' going ( ).

[/ QUOTE ]

Double Entendre anyone?

Seriously tho, thanks for more good advice.

The idea of freeing up power picks and slots by not taking haste and the fitness pool is VERY appealing. It would allow me to thake the 3rd TP pool power and also ShadowFall for that added defence. I could also include Fearsome Stare which I had previously avoided becuase of the "scatter" issues.

This is looking better by the day.


 

Posted

Fearsome Stare rarely scatters - pins them in place all trembly and fearfull like - and it's a power you really don't want to miss out on.


 

Posted

Besides, even if they want to scatter (which as a rule they don't), you've got them tar patched and TT'ed. Way back in I0/I1 (well before I was playing) terrorised mobs used to leg it. This was hugely unpopular, so was changed to the current tremble while occasionally shooting in response to being attacked effect.

It's certainly one of the best powers in the set, possibly the best, depending on my mood.


Dead Calm's Defender Manifesto

 

Posted

I think Fear makes them slightly more likely to scatter when injured. But mobs do that anyway and as the chaps say theres lots of ways to stop them.

Scattering is looked upon as a bad thing by a lot of people, for good reasons sometimes, but its a handy control if done right (ie if you "tame" it with slows & holds).


 

Posted

Ok, thanks to the great advice from you all I have my "final" build.

I have now dumped Black Hole in favour Fearsome Stare and Life Drain in favour of Twighlight Grasp. Torrent is out coz I hate knockback powers. I have squeezed in three TP powers and have still managed to slip in the fitness pool in the later part of the build. Allowing for vigilance and a good supply of blues I think I should be ok for endurance till I get stamina.

Below is my build (purely for PvE by the way) which I think should be pretty nasty to most things I come across.

---------------------------------------------
Exported from Ver: 1.7.6.0 of the CoH_CoV Character Builder - (http://sherksilver.coldfront.net/index.php)
---------------------------------------------
Name: Shadow Sentry
Level: 50
Archetype: Defender
Primary: Dark Miasma
Secondary: Dark Blast
---------------------------------------------
01) --> Twilight Grasp==> Acc(1) EndRdx(3) Heal(9) Heal(31) Heal(50)
01) --> Dark Blast==> Acc(1) TH_DeBuf(3) TH_DeBuf(7) TH_DeBuf(29)
02) --> Gloom==> Acc(2) EndRdx(5) Dmg(7) Dmg(29) TH_DeBuf(37) TH_DeBuf(50)
04) --> Tar Patch==> EndRdx(4) Slow(5) Slow(13) Slow(19)
06) --> Teleport Foe==> EndRdx(6) Range(40) Range(43)
08) --> Darkest Night==> TH_DeBuf(8) TH_DeBuf(9) TH_DeBuf(11)
10) --> Howling Twilight==> Heal(10) Heal(11) Heal(15)
12) --> Dark Pit==> EndRdx(12) DisDur(13) DisDur(15) DisDur(23) Acc(39)
14) --> Teleport==> EndRdx(14) Range(40) Range(43)
16) --> Tenebrous Tentacles==> EndRdx(16) Immob(17) Immob(17) Immob(23) Acc(34)
18) --> Fearsome Stare==> EndRdx(18) Fear(19) Fear(21) Fear(37) Acc(37)
20) --> Shadow Fall==> DmgRes(20) DmgRes(21) DmgRes(33) DefBuf(42) DefBuf(50)
22) --> Petrifying Gaze==> EndRdx(22) Hold(25) Hold(27) Hold(31) Acc(34)
24) --> Night Fall==> EndRdx(24) TH_DeBuf(25) TH_DeBuf(27) TH_DeBuf(31) Acc(36)
26) --> Recall Friend==> EndRdx(26) Range(40) Range(43)
28) --> Hurdle==> Jump(28)
30) --> Health==> Heal(30) Heal(33)
32) --> Dark Servant==> TH_DeBuf(32) TH_DeBuf(33) TH_DeBuf(34) Heal(45) Heal(46) Heal(46)
35) --> Stamina==> EndMod(35) EndMod(36) EndMod(36)
38) --> Blackstar==> Dmg(38) Dmg(39) Dmg(39) Rechg(46)
41) --> Oppressive Gloom==> Acc(41) DisDur(42) DisDur(42)
44) --> Dark Consumption==> Acc(44) EndMod(45) EndMod(45)
47) --> Soul Drain==> Acc(47) TH_Buf(48) TH_Buf(48) TH_Buf(48)
49) --> Hasten==> Rechg(49)
---------------------------------------------
01) --> Power Slide==> Run(1)
01) --> Sprint==> Empty(1)
01) --> Brawl==> Dmg(1)
01) --> Vigilance==> Empty(1)
02) --> Rest==> Rechg(2)
---------------------------------------------


 

Posted

A few things I'd say about slotting.

A second acc in TG is handy - three heals will make it a huge heal but no good if it misses...

Tar Patch - 3 recharge is a must most of the time. Makes it near perma.

Howling Twilight - The heal is pretty big anyway without heals slotted. It has a huge end cost tho (26 says the hero planner) and recharge can be handy.

Fearsome Stare - Mine is slotted 2 acc, 2 recharge, 1 fear, 1 debuff. I don't like missing and like it up often so I can react to new threats. Personal choice though really.


 

Posted

Howling Twilight is a 100% health rez now I think. I'm not actually sure it even takes heals any more. Back in the day (when this was all fields) it healed for a set amount for each mob in the PBAoE, and was generally regarded as a good way to get lots of debt for everyone concerned really quickly.

I'd go for a single recharge, or possibly some disorients if you want to use it offensivly.

Agree with everything else Faultline says.


Dead Calm's Defender Manifesto

 

Posted

Howling Twilight probably should be slotted for Recharge and maybe Disorient duration if you want to use it as a control power. The base duration on the disorient is around 15 seconds or so. This makes it comparable with controller AoE holds but it is auto-hit.

Fearsome stare has a number of possible slottings, but it is certainly worth 6 slots. The 2 extremes are something like
Maximum fear, 1 acc,3 fear and 2 recharge.
Maximum to hit debuff, 1 acc, 3 recharge, 2 to hit debuff.

I'm not sure whether slotting to hit debuff on the single target blasts is worthwhile. After all you are only going to get a decent debuff on tough enemies like AVs and Bosses. With Nightfall, Tenebrous Tentacles, Fearsome Stare ( 20% base? ) and Darkest Night ( 20% base? ) you probably have something like a 50%-80% to hit debuff anyway. Anything more than 45% does nothing.


@Unthing ... Mostly on Union.

 

Posted

DN is 18.75% base. Fearsome Stare is 15%. Those two (with 3 slots in DN and one in FS) plus TT should get you to the 45% for +2 mobs.


 

Posted

DN and FS are both 18.75% base for defenders.

@Unthing
More than 45% debuff is preferable,except you fight only even cons.
For higher level foes debuffs are less effective (e.g. vs. +4s they are 48% effective).


 

Posted

[ QUOTE ]
DN and FS are both 18.75% base for defenders.

[/ QUOTE ]

Any source for the FS figure? I know it's supposed to be 15% for corruptors but I was getting the same figure when I tested for defenders (although my sample wasn't huge - 130 odd attacks)


 

Posted

It's mainly an assumption - but both MMs and Corruptors have equal base debuffs for DN and FS (11.25% MMs,15% Corr),according to the I7 prima guide update.

If those numbers are right,then defender DN and FS both have to be a 18.75% debuff.

(Tohit-debuff modifiers:
MM -0.075
Cor -0.1
Def -0.125 )