L40 Necro/Dark, no leadership, no need for it, soloed just about every EB in the game without it or darkest night 
(And yes, I know DN rocks, and I'll be freespecing it in, just didn't have spot for it earlier)
I agree that leadership is severely overrated. I think all masterminds got better options from their secondary..
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I agree that leadership is severely overrated. I think all masterminds got better options from their secondary..
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Except for one teeny tiny little factor that comes into play from about 35 onward.
Night Widows. You get Smoke grenaded by one of them without a +per power, and you're flailing in the dark.
Also the Knives Of Artemis spawns on the rooftops in Grandville, the Bane Spider Scouts and their execcutioners strikes etc.etc.
It's by no means essential, but it IS very useful for certain MM secondaries. For example /traps like my MM. I don't find /traps a particularly end heavy set, as it's so situational, so running assault and tactics (each 2 slotted for end cost) is no major hardship, and I dare say the others on the team appreciate the buffage.
It's up to you. With a more 'active' secondary like /poison or /dark, you may not be able to afford the end cost without stamina, which is a whole other can of worms 
Not essential. But useful.
Warning:
The above post may contain Cynicism, sarcasm and/or pessimism. If you object to the quantities contained, then tough.
Hmmm, didn't think about that, but then again I'm robo/traps. I'd just lay everything on night widows and give em a can of kb, which prevents them from doing anything, plus my bots are resistant to psionics.
Traps isn't end heavy, but I'm jsut psoiled with control, I'd rather have all my traps then leadership.
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Except for one teeny tiny little factor that comes into play from about 35 onward.
Night Widows. You get Smoke grenaded by one of them without a +per power, and you're flailing in the dark.
[/ QUOTE ]Henches still see them though, and you can always pop yellows. I've been smoked by a widow maybe...5 times during my career, and never has it gotten me killed.
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Henches still see them though, and you can always pop yellows. I've been smoked by a widow maybe...5 times during my career, and never has it gotten me killed.
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Yes, your pets still aggro, but you have no control at all over WHAT the aggro on. Also, try it in a team situation, where the brute(s) get two or three smoke grenades stacked on them and can't see a thing. Then tell me Night Widows can't get you and your team into trouble really quickly.
Warning:
The above post may contain Cynicism, sarcasm and/or pessimism. If you object to the quantities contained, then tough.
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Henches still see them though, and you can always pop yellows. I've been smoked by a widow maybe...5 times during my career, and never has it gotten me killed.
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Been smoked more times than I can count, but since the inspiration I never seem to need is yellow, they tend to stack up in my inventory. Usually have 5-15 of them at hand in case some sod needs attention. If not, been using Force Bubble will keep them out of melee range where they're at their most deadliest.
For the OP: Lv 40 Merc/FF, Didn't take Leadership, never regretted the decission. Allowed me to easilly skip Fitness as well as I don't have to worry about running those end-heavy toggles.
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Also, try it in a team situation, where the brute(s) get two or three smoke grenades stacked on them and can't see a thing. Then tell me Night Widows can't get you and your team into trouble really quickly.
[/ QUOTE ]See, this is where you go wrong, you're a MM, you shouldn't be teaming in the first place
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See, this is where you go wrong, you're a MM, you shouldn't be teaming in the first place
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And there was me thinking that this was a massively multiplayer online game 
TBH, in a team, I play as support. Fire support from my bots, debuff support from my traps and buff support from my leadership toggles. It's just the way my playstyle has evolved with Toybox. (the fact that this playstyle usually means I'm the last one standing when it all goes titsup and stand a better than average chance of being able to successfully run away has nothing to do with it )
For anyone else, this may be a particularly dull playstyle, which is why I'm not saying leadership toggles are essential but neither are they useless...
Warning:
The above post may contain Cynicism, sarcasm and/or pessimism. If you object to the quantities contained, then tough.
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Except for one teeny tiny little factor that comes into play from about 35 onward.
Night Widows. You get Smoke grenaded by one of them without a +per power, and you're flailing in the dark.
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Well you could take some acc insps with you or send one pet forward so they use smoke grenades on them while you are out of harms way yourself, or hold the widows or, or, etc
I have not bothered with the leadership pool or fitness, though perhaps if I used my MM in PvP more I could see my self needing fitness.
Smoke grenades are a pain, those seconds of not knowing what is around, and being unable to target your minions effectively **shudders**.
DG>
You haven't seen how well Leadership works until you've been in a team with 4+ people running Assault+Tactics (add Maneuvers before I5).
Speaking of leadership, I have one question.
I'm a MM with Tactics (3 slotted).
My friend is a Thug/xxx MM with Tactics (3 slotted too).
Now, he decides to put 3 acc buff slots in his enforcers (I think he can).
And now the question : in this case, is it worth to put accuracy enhancers in the enforcers or can he slot with (just an example) : 3 acc buff, 3 damages ?
Thanks by advance.
(sorry for my English).
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Speaking of leadership, I have one question.
I'm a MM with Tactics (3 slotted).
My friend is a Thug/xxx MM with Tactics (3 slotted too).
Now, he decides to put 3 acc buff slots in his enforcers (I think he can).
And now the question : in this case, is it worth to put accuracy enhancers in the enforcers or can he slot with (just an example) : 3 acc buff, 3 damages ?
Thanks by advance.
(sorry for my English).
[/ QUOTE ]I don't think their ToHit buff is quite that big, I'd slot them 2 ACC 3 Dam 1 ToHit, or 1 ACC, 3 Dam, 2 ToHit.
Thats 4 stacked though anything can be good with multiple aplications.
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Thats 4 stacked though anything can be good with multiple aplications.
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Except Maneuvers post-I5.
8 Defenders stacking it isn't even as good as a single Luck (unless they decide to spend 3 slots each for +Def enhancements).
8 Defenders with unslotted maneuvers is 28% Def (1 defbuff in the initial slot ups it to 33.6%).
1 small luck is 12.5% Def (yeah,it erroneously says 25% ingame).
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8 Defenders with unslotted maneuvers is 28% Def (1 defbuff in the initial slot ups it to 33.6%).
1 small luck is 12.5% Def (yeah,it erroneously says 25% ingame).
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Hmm, I had Defender Maneuvers down as 2.5 in my notes. Don't have the time, patience or respecs to double check that, so I'll believe your 3.5.
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Speaking of leadership, I have one question.
I'm a MM with Tactics (3 slotted).
My friend is a Thug/xxx MM with Tactics (3 slotted too).
Now, he decides to put 3 acc buff slots in his enforcers (I think he can).
And now the question : in this case, is it worth to put accuracy enhancers in the enforcers or can he slot with (just an example) : 3 acc buff, 3 damages ?
Thanks by advance.
(sorry for my English).
[/ QUOTE ]I don't think their ToHit buff is quite that big, I'd slot them 2 ACC 3 Dam 1 ToHit, or 1 ACC, 3 Dam, 2 ToHit.
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According to the Prima guide (I know, it's not perfect), the Leadership buffs for Enforcers are as follows: Maneuvers: 13.6% ; Tactics: 2.5% ; Assault: 5%.
So defence seems to be the only one really worth slotting (unless you're mainly teaming with fellow thugsters).
CoX 50s: <ill/rad> <ice/ice> <fire/kin> <grav/sonic> <ice/storm> <earth/kin> <kin/elec> <cold/psy> <thugs/dark> <fire/dark> <dark/elec> <night widow> <EM/ninj> <mind/icy>
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Speaking of leadership, I have one question.
I'm a MM with Tactics (3 slotted).
My friend is a Thug/xxx MM with Tactics (3 slotted too).
Now, he decides to put 3 acc buff slots in his enforcers (I think he can).
And now the question : in this case, is it worth to put accuracy enhancers in the enforcers or can he slot with (just an example) : 3 acc buff, 3 damages ?
Thanks by advance.
(sorry for my English).
[/ QUOTE ]I don't think their ToHit buff is quite that big, I'd slot them 2 ACC 3 Dam 1 ToHit, or 1 ACC, 3 Dam, 2 ToHit.
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According to the Prima guide (I know, it's not perfect), the Leadership buffs for Enforcers are as follows: Maneuvers: 13.6% ; Tactics: 2.5% ; Assault: 5%.
So defence seems to be the only one really worth slotting (unless you're mainly teaming with fellow thugsters).
[/ QUOTE ]That maneuvers number has GOT to be wrong...
The US forumites PM'ed Castle and he confirmed the number - 13.6% defense at level 50.
Apparently the defense scales per level (another redname stated that to Arcanaville).
So that basically means that two thug MM's get capped defence for all their henches without slotting the enforcers for DefBuff...
Sounds silly,eh?
Slot one DefBuff and take traps for the FFG (10% Def unslotted) and you can "cap" your henchies defense all by yourself.
There is a theory that the number is for both enforcers combined - still good but not insane like 13.6% each.
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Sounds silly,eh?
Slot one DefBuff and take traps for the FFG (10% Def unslotted) and you can "cap" your henchies defense all by yourself.
There is a theory that the number is for both enforcers combined - still good but not insane like 13.6% each.
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Intersting mR and I are currently playing a duo of thug MM so basicall we dont have to slot for defense in the enfocers then as thats what i just did last night lol.
Hi, I've been thinking about my necro/dark MM and I'm on about skipping leadersship for my travel power and fitness. I for one think that leadership is overrated and I need the endurance since I'm dark miasma. (I srespecced leadership from my robo/traps MM at lvl 26 and I love it now)