The Zig is slightly less secure than Arkham Asylum.
Well, the thing is, the Zig needs an enormous amount of fudge applied to it - the 'Breakout' by Arachnos military is presumably a one-off event, but of course, since this is a game, it is in constant progress. I would say that it probably should be considered secure, as when one actually visits the Zig it seems completely locked down, with the Arachnos full military assault taking place some time in the past.
[ QUOTE ]
Well, the thing is, the Zig needs an enormous amount of fudge applied to it - the 'Breakout' by Arachnos military is presumably a one-off event, but of course, since this is a game, it is in constant progress. I would say that it probably should be considered secure, as when one actually visits the Zig it seems completely locked down, with the Arachnos full military assault taking place some time in the past.
[/ QUOTE ]
I agree with this fellow.
The complaints I've seen aimed at the Zig - "there are so many villains on the streets", "I can arrest a group and five minutes they're back" - seem to be warping the game mechanics, rather than taking actual lore into account.
The problem with THAT is, when you get to the AV missions, loads of them tell you the bugger escaped from the Zig shortly after incarceration.
For me, I say it's not a lot of good for when we want an RP villain out of the way for good, as we all know that if they go to the Zig, they'd be out before the day was up...
@FloatingFatMan
Do not go gentle into that good night.
Rage, rage against the dying of the light.
That's the problem: Arch Villain. Some of the most powerful entities on the planet. 
Yes... Hence, is the Zig good enough?, seeing as the buggers walk out of the place...
@FloatingFatMan
Do not go gentle into that good night.
Rage, rage against the dying of the light.
[ QUOTE ]
Yes... Hence, is the Zig good enough?, seeing as the buggers walk out of the place...
[/ QUOTE ]
When the most powerful beings in existence escape - yet everything else is still locked in - do you think it's fair to say the Zig is completely hopeless?
I seriously doubt it's as simple as them walking out, either. Even Arachnos didn't do a terribly good job; cracked open a few cells, then had to run like hell before the defensive force could respond properly.
You need to play CoH a bit dearie... The later arcs are FULL of incidences of AV's just being dimension shifted out of the Zig... You'd think they'd install jammers...
You'd also think they'd be equipped to hold high powered villains. Not to mention the 100's of escaped convicts in their bright orange jumpsuits hanging around in Brickstown...
@FloatingFatMan
Do not go gentle into that good night.
Rage, rage against the dying of the light.
That first reason could be applied to any comic book world; how many times has the Joker, etc, broken out?
The only series I can think of without villains such as that is the Punisher; even then it's only because he brutally slays them.
Secondly, the prisoners there are - as I said above - the result of a game mechanic. By now they'd all be locked up again; MMOGs aren't organic, for the most part.
I'd go with Zig being a secure place. The CoV breakout is a one time event so there isn't a constant flood of prisoners walking out.
As for named villains, there we run into game mechanics as said. If we seek validation from within genre we can consider The Vault and Arkham. Neither is impossible to break out from.but still both are used. OOC readers know that they hold only as long as writers need them to, but IC the characters trust them enough to put the bad guys inside them time and again.
Same could apply here. Characters trust Zig to hold the villain and it does until such time that plot calls for a release.
Then again there's the different scales in power to be considered. Putting Stiltman behind bars makes more sense than locking up Silver Surfer. If the villain is strong enough it might be that even a max security facility can really keep them for long.
I think it would be safe to assume that any IC villains would be counted as "arch villians" since they have a great deal more intellegence than what would be classed as a minion. at the very least they'd be on par with a named boss.
And so it would make sense that they have either the cleverness or the resources to get out the zig.
in game the solutions would be to either remake the Zig in game to be a insecure place with the longbows you see when in breakout inplace around the outside of the structure fighting the convicts; to have a site IC that is outside the city's warwalls (and therefore extremely difficult to get in through the check points.. you never see villains using the city's motorway gates like heroes do); To have a prison like structure in your base (i'm thinking sort of like the ghost busters had); Kill them... kill them all.
However aimed at my villain (which is how this question arose) Time is a problem, any sentences carried out would mean that after she could go back to where she left off. Death is a solution but it's not heroic.
I'm in favour of Unbirth.
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Well, the thing is, the Zig needs an enormous amount of fudge applied to it - the 'Breakout' by Arachnos military is presumably a one-off event, but of course, since this is a game, it is in constant progress. I would say that it probably should be considered secure, as when one actually visits the Zig it seems completely locked down, with the Arachnos full military assault taking place some time in the past.
[/ QUOTE ]
I agree with this fellow.
The complaints I've seen aimed at the Zig - "there are so many villains on the streets", "I can arrest a group and five minutes they're back" - seem to be warping the game mechanics, rather than taking actual lore into account.
[/ QUOTE ]
I'm sorry... you guys have actually been there, right?
This is the same highly secure, locked down prison where the inmates, still wearing their nice orange jumpsuits (funny how you don't start CoV in one of those ) are charging around the entire zone. I'm not talking AVs here, I'm talking bog-standard, boring, mooks.
The zone itself says that the Zig is about as secure as a child's piggy bank. If you wish to ignore that evidence, then fine, but the evidence is there.
Disclaimer: The above may be humerous, or at least may be an attempt at humour. Try reading it that way.
Posts are OOC unless noted to be IC, or in an IC thread.
Except, Raven, as I've already pointed out those prisoners would have been locked up and been secured again by now if the world wasn't static.
There's a CoV mission where you go back to the Zig and help break out a few stragglers; on that map it's fairly clear the security forces are cleaning up, even if the place isn't completely locked down.
To be honest, you have to apply fudge to everything... if everything is taken at face value, villains randomly spawn in the middle of streets, civilians are completely invulnerable, cars never stop driving, day and night last about ten minutes each, everyone is made up of the same few archetypes and power sets, with limited choice in each... it all depends where you want to draw the line between RP and the game, because if you go on that logical road, Ravenswing, all the above should be factored into our RP, too.
If the world wasn't static, this wouldn't be an issue. When you locked up mobs, they'd stay locked up and be replaced by someone else.
But it is static and in the real Brickstown, there are escaped prisoners. If they are being re-arrested by the security forces, then they obviously keep escaping, which suggests the Zig is insecure, no?
Disclaimer: The above may be humerous, or at least may be an attempt at humour. Try reading it that way.
Posts are OOC unless noted to be IC, or in an IC thread.
No, it just points out the world is static. Nothing more, nothing less.
I can't think of any MMORPG that would keep its mobs defeated/slain. Gameplay > Roleplay with a lot of today's market.
What better option do we have, in addition? If we invent ourselves another prison, how do we explain that the game-existing arch-villains don't stay locked up if they are sent there? Sadly, the Zig is pretty much our only option, unless we ignore all archvillains completely.
You must've missed the elite longbow and arachnos forces duking it out on the other side of the fence, probably to keep the worst threats inside while level 1 villains and inmates escape since they're less of a threat.
At least if you wanna declare game mechanics as IC, then I can do the same thing and trump you.
I think you're missing the point Syra, no-one is arguing that the game world isn't static, we're arguing how to apply an IC justification to best fit that mould.
There *are* escaped prisoners running round the streets of brickstown. Either they aren't being rearrested, or more are escaping to replace the ones that are.
I'm not sure how many AV's actually escape the Zig at the end of their capture missions, I can think of many it doesn't state (mostly TF ones or praetorians), many that escape badly wounded (Dr Vhaz), die (Nemesis, Giovanna) or are banished (the Envoy), but the only one's I can actually think of you arresting are Countess Crey and Vanessa, off hand, and of those I'm pretty sure they stay in Jail, according to the storyline, and you have to apply a lot of fudge.
So I'm inclined to say that the Zig *might* be able to hold a high-threat villain, but the mooks are a joke. They're either out the next day with community service orders or wandering off for a stroll around Brickstown.
Either than or the gangs should have taken over years ago since they'd have to have at least half the city population. (City of Gangers for the next expansion maybe?)
Hence why I don't worry myself about justifying everything In Character; if I did, it would seriously inhibit my enjoyment of the game.
Plus, as pointed out above, where do you draw the line for game mechanics? I don't recall civilians sleeping, I don't remember seeing cars parking anywhere, I don't ever think I've seen someone go into a building other than myself....etc, etc.
While it's admirable to try and tie these things up from an IC viewpoint, I do feel you're fighting an uphill battle and it isn't worth focusing on to such an extent.
Ummm, because we're roleplayers and this is the roleplay discussion board?
The origional point of the discussion was to decide on an IC viewpoint on prisoners escaping from the zig for the purpose of a player run plot.
Yes, discussion. Hence why I'm presenting my view of things.
I consider it secure, as does my character. The Zig breakout would - "realistically" - have been one a time thing, Arch-Villains aside. As a Roleplayer, I feel it's just fighting a losing battle - as I said - to elaborate too much beyond that when the gameworld itself is against me.
Just to note that Civvies do go in and out of buildings.
Trust me, when I get bored I set one on follow and just walk after it (or rather run reaaaallly slowly).
Perhaps mooks can get out easily because everyone's so distracted by keeping the archvillains and bosses in. (and when they get out it's probably a great feat of lawyership)
[ QUOTE ]
You must've missed the elite longbow and arachnos forces duking it out on the other side of the fence, probably to keep the worst threats inside while level 1 villains and inmates escape since they're less of a threat.
[/ QUOTE ]
Just like to point out that these mobs are only present in Breakout, in CoV. In hero's, there are no Longbow around the jail...
@FloatingFatMan
Do not go gentle into that good night.
Rage, rage against the dying of the light.
In the static world that is CoX, there's no way for us to affect the game world and it's villains.
As an effect, the Zigurski correctional facility (excuse my spelling) is about as effective as a cardbord box, IC wise.
Or is it?
Do you feel the Zig is a secure facility?
Does your character have faith in the Zig?
If the answer is "no", what alternative is there?
Do we need a better IC prison for out IC (plot) vilains?
@ShadowGhost & @Ghostie
The Grav Mistress, Mistress of Gravity
If you have nothing useful to say, you have two choices: Say something useless or stay quiet.