Gravity and Aerial Superiority
The same as your Tier 1 power I think. About 2.8 times brawl.
With Containment its worth it for some Controllers. But as you said Gravity have a fair few single target smashers such as Propel anyway so you may not need it.
Propel is pretty cool, but it's downside is the animation time sucks for it, and you are rooted whilst it happens. Number of times I press propel and wince as I see my team running back past me ... a second attack like AS would be pretty handy, I was toying with putting it in instead of hover at one point but the epic attacks make it a bit academic.
I took AS on my Grav Controller because Propel didn't fit into the concept. With Containment it does a nice hit, but the downside is you have to me in melee range.
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I took AS on my Grav Controller because Propel didn't fit into the concept. With Containment it does a nice hit, but the downside is you have to me in melee range.
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Which is right where you should be as a /kin!
Well then there's no downside - Air Sup with all those lovely melee-range buffs, mmmmmm
So AS is a viable replacement for propel? Working on a very conceptual build, and, like the poster earlier, a melee strike works better from the concept point of view than throwing a fork-lift.
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Propel does about twice as much damage as AS and has knockback, but animation time is indeed loooong (and recharge too) and it has a higher end cost. AS has the useful -fly and, as others have mentioned, works fine for kins who will be in melee anyway.
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I wouldnt take AS on a grav roller. Your hold , imob and lift powers are all -fly anyway. Crush does more damage than AS and i would 3 slot with damage. Your hold does more damage than crush so i would also 3 slot it with damage. With hasten and S.speed you have great recharge. This then lets you have a good attack chain with crush ,lift, your hold and propel.
I'd say Air supes, being faster, is more 'useable' in combat - plus the knockdown is so reliable even up to AV level that it's a viable form of control to give you a running-away window without having to wait three seconds for it to execute.
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I wouldnt take AS on a grav roller. Your hold , imob and lift powers are all -fly anyway. Crush does more damage than AS and i would 3 slot with damage. Your hold does more damage than crush so i would also 3 slot it with damage. With hasten and S.speed you have great recharge. This then lets you have a good attack chain with crush ,lift, your hold and propel.
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For PvP maybe, but I think the OP was talking about PvE where 3xHold in Gravity Distortion Field is essential.
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I wouldnt take AS on a grav roller. Your hold , imob and lift powers are all -fly anyway. Crush does more damage than AS and i would 3 slot with damage. Your hold does more damage than crush so i would also 3 slot it with damage. With hasten and S.speed you have great recharge. This then lets you have a good attack chain with crush ,lift, your hold and propel.
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For PvP maybe, but I think the OP was talking about PvE where 3xHold in Gravity Distortion Field is essential.
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3 holds aren't essential. 2 holds are all you need, better to slot it 2 acc, 2 rech, 2 holds
For PvP it would be 2 acc, 3 rech, 1 hold
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CRACK68:
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Sorry, I meant Gravity Distortion - the single target hold. You're right about the slotting of GDF, of course.
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I wouldnt take AS on a grav roller. Your hold , imob and lift powers are all -fly anyway. Crush does more damage than AS and i would 3 slot with damage. Your hold does more damage than crush so i would also 3 slot it with damage. With hasten and S.speed you have great recharge. This then lets you have a good attack chain with crush ,lift, your hold and propel.
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According to Sherk Silver's planner, Crush and AS actually do the same damage, with AS costing less endurance. I realise it's not always right, but just for reference. Also, AS is of course a nice chunk of damage, while Crush is DoT.
I currently use my hold, immob, and Lift chained, and find I really can't fit Propel in - it's too slow. by the time it finishes, everything's long since recharged. I've just been cycling the three when solo, and found that I actually seem to be going just as quickly that way. I'm /FF, but I'd think on a Kin, it really would fit in - with everything recharging quickly, there'd be so little time where one of the three powers wasn't recharged. On the other hand, there might well be enough time for AS or a blast from the ancillary pools.
I have to agree with others that I'd never slot my hold for damage. I rely far too much on it lasting as long as it does and recharging as quickly as it does, so I can keep everything locked down solo while I kill them.
Edit: Also, while Grav has plenty of -Fly as you pointed out, AS has a really handy knock down on targets already on the ground.
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Sorry, I meant Gravity Distortion - the single target hold. You're right about the slotting of GDF, of course.
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Would recommend the exact same slotting for the single hold
SingStar:
"Extremists LOVE to fish to get us annoyed so we break the forum rules."
CRACK68:
"The origin of life wasn't planned either, should all life be declared a bug and wiped out?"
Lionsbane:
"You know me.Ever the realist"
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I wouldnt take AS on a grav roller. Your hold , imob and lift powers are all -fly anyway. Crush does more damage than AS and i would 3 slot with damage. Your hold does more damage than crush so i would also 3 slot it with damage. With hasten and S.speed you have great recharge. This then lets you have a good attack chain with crush ,lift, your hold and propel.
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According to Sherk Silver's planner, Crush and AS actually do the same damage, with AS costing less endurance. I realise it's not always right, but just for reference. Also, AS is of course a nice chunk of damage, while Crush is DoT.
I currently use my hold, immob, and Lift chained, and find I really can't fit Propel in - it's too slow. by the time it finishes, everything's long since recharged. I've just been cycling the three when solo, and found that I actually seem to be going just as quickly that way. I'm /FF, but I'd think on a Kin, it really would fit in - with everything recharging quickly, there'd be so little time where one of the three powers wasn't recharged. On the other hand, there might well be enough time for AS or a blast from the ancillary pools.
I have to agree with others that I'd never slot my hold for damage. I rely far too much on it lasting as long as it does and recharging as quickly as it does, so I can keep everything locked down solo while I kill them.
Edit: Also, while Grav has plenty of -Fly as you pointed out, AS has a really handy knock down on targets already on the ground.
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I use a different hero planner and checked the numbers before posting. That said mines proberly wrong
With hasten being /kin and planning on going solo alot you could slot your hold 1acc 2 hold 3 dam or 1acc 1hold 1recharge 3dam. your hold will be recharged fast and you will be stacking it anyway. Plus going solo you will proberly only be up against 3 foe at once most of the time. And your going to have your sing holding for you also(which also does knockback/repel) You could do without propel np but its such a fun power and it does High damage which you dont get to often in controller sets.
I thought there was an -Acc penalty against the mass hold, so I can see why 2x Acc, 2x Recharge, 2x Hold Duration slotting works. But why do you need 2x Acc on the single target hold?
Just curious
If you solo a lot, air superiority is a good choice until epics, thereafter you can respec it out for one of the blasts in the epic pools.
Personally with soloing i think propel + your immobilze with containment is all the damage you need. I would only take air superiority if your going the fly route.
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I thought there was an -Acc penalty against the mass hold, so I can see why 2x Acc, 2x Recharge, 2x Hold Duration slotting works. But why do you need 2x Acc on the single target hold?
Just curious
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As is every other attack 1 accuracy would be fine in most cases if you're fighting even lvl mobs but as you progress in lvls you will more than likely be fighting 2-4+s and this is where the extra accuracy comes in handy.
2 accuracies in every attack is a must imo (unless you're running tactics)
SingStar:
"Extremists LOVE to fish to get us annoyed so we break the forum rules."
CRACK68:
"The origin of life wasn't planned either, should all life be declared a bug and wiped out?"
Lionsbane:
"You know me.Ever the realist"
Thanks for the response Arch.
My level 19 Grav/Stormie has 3x Hold, 1x Acc, 1x Recharge and 1x End Red in Gravity Distortion at the moment, and 1x Acc, 1x Hold and 1x Recharge in Gravity Distortion Field, and I don't seem to be missing too noticibly. Only on DOs at this stage, obviously.
Can anyone tell me roughly how much damage aerial superiority does in contrast to propel? I got propel yesterday and I'm so happy with its damage that I'm contemplating not taking AS. On the other hand, more damage is nothing to sniff at.
By the by, my secondary is Kinetics and I plan to solo quite a bit, hence the worry about damage.