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I am anti-knockback. I protest about kheldians and prefer not to team with them if they tend to stay in nova form. I have a friend with an Energy/Fire corrupter, who can't seem to keep his blasts under control when teaming with my brute. For S4, I was an Energy/Energy blaster for our team, he was deleted and is now making a comeback as an Ice/Energy blaster.
So maybe I should mention again that he's forcefield/energy. Yes, one of the worst powersets in the game, energy blast. Why did I choose it? Must have been in a drunken moment. I run around helping my team, and throw out a blast (because they seem to expect it), and immediately regret doing so. I only have a couple of the blasts, and can't figure out why I got any of them (apart from the mandatory one).
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As was said already, it seems like you only dislike your secondary, not the Defender AT as a whole. Just because you picked something you dislike as your blasts, doesn't mean that the whole AT is bad.
That said, FF is a fairly passive set too. You have bursts of having to cast 2 bubbles on 7 people (which is repetitive and a lot of people do find boring), followed by basically just standing there in the middle and watching them fight. I don't mind it, but it doesn't fit everyone's personality either. Maybe a more active set would fit your style more.
(And let me insist on that casting 2 bubbles on 7 people again: you must take care that the group is always bubbled. There are more than enough people already who just bubble once per mission and then never do it again, presumably because it's boring. You probably aren't one of those, but, you know, just a gentle reminder.)
It's also a fairly thankless set, because as you've noticed too, it's not obvious what it does and when it saved your bacon. People are swift to notice when a heal brings their health back up, but quick to assume that the bubble did nothing when their health doesn't go down to start with. So do prepare to be asked "R U A HEALR???" lots, or see people leave the group as protest that the leader invited a FF instead of a "healer", or... see some profuse thanks to someone who fired a whole 2 heals in the whole bloody mission or conversely someone who had Healing Aura set on Auto even though noone actually needed a heal, but noone thanking you for the bubbles that made even that unnecessary.
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Ok, my question is... Why a defender? In general, why roll a defender? I have several controllers, and they are awesome. I never feel like I'm leeching, or not pulling my weight (unless I am purposely doing so, but that doesn't tend to happen) with my trollers. With Dark Bubble, I do. Is there really a good reason to take a defender over a controller with that defenders primary as a secondary?
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Because a Defender is a lot better than a Controller at their primary. There's some subtle hint in there in that for one it's a primary and for the other it's a secondary. Defender bubbles offer more defense han Controller bubbles, Defender heals restore more HP than Controller heals, Defender Kinetics effects do more than the same powers used by a Controller, Defender debuffs do debuff more than Controller debuffs, etc. Heck, even Leadership has more effect on a Defender than on a Controller.
So basically, I don't know, that seems reason enough to roll a Defender _if_ that's what you see yourself as using _primarily_. It's not a main damage dealer, yes, and it doesn't have much in the way of crowd control, so, yes, if you see those as your primary activity, then indeed you're better off rolling a Controller instead.
As for leeching... ugh... no offense, but that's the kind of thinking that got us all stuck with the "R U A HEALR???" mentality. It may not be obvious that those bubbles do something, but when I and 7 blasters stand for example on that that ramp in the "prevent takeover of Salamanca by Croatoa" (sorry, I don't remember the exact name) mission on Invincible and repell wave after wave of redcaps, and noone gets hurt -- well, except for the occasional brave guy who forgets and charges out of the big bubble to blap, but that's what I have Aid Other for -- it's pretty darn hard to argue with a straight face that I'm not pulling my weight in that group. I'd like to see them do the same without me, if anyone thinks I'm leeching xp there.
Of course, it takes some educating people first. Blasters are used to keeping their distance and running away, and have some 30-40 levels that hammered that into their head. Getting them to accept "dude, stay glued to me even if they melee you" or "no, if you're hurt come _to_ me, don't run away" can take a while to sink in. They've already been conditioned to the point of reflex to throw a web grenade and back off, so just staying there is very unnatural. But most do learn.
Anyway, "pulling your weight" is a very broad concept. It's not measured just in damage directly done. If I can make 7 blasters able to blast non-stop with impunity, just that cutting down the downtime alone raises the group's total DPS by more than an 8'th blaster would. And if they know they can nuke at any time and never faceplant because the survivors shot faster than a healer can react, I'll say I'm clearly raising the XP they got out of that mission, rather than leeching anything.
And I can do that. Small shields + big shield + Leadership floor any enemy in I7, AVs included. And the DB also offers mez protection, which will become _the_ major cause of downtime later.
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Maybe it's the level. I think that most of my slots are red, or contain trainings waiting for that magical 22-SO level.
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Well, it partially is the level, as all your bubbles help a lot less on DOs. Still, if you don't like the gameplay, nothing will change fundamentally there.
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I have a free respec, DB has been out for a good while now, and has one from I6/ED I think. I think I will have to use it, respec in more bubble powers, no blasts (bar the 'big one'), stamina, fly, etc, and see if it makes anything better.
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Hmm... No offense, but what I highlighted there may well be one reason you're not doing that great, and one reason that gets people to play safe and get a "healer" instead. Just, say, Deflection Shield and Dispersion Bubble are definitely not enough even in relatively tame Council or Sky Raider missions. (E.g., the respec trial) The moment they start shooting flametrowers, the Deflection Shield suddenly doesn't do anything at all.
And I've even seen people who thought they're a FF Defender with just the Dispersion Bubble. Which, sad to say, just doesn't cut it in any form or shape. It's like being an Empath with just the Healing Aura. In fact, worse than that.
Not accusing you of anything, and I haven't even seen your build, so I can't pass judgment. But just saying that such mistaken builds do exist.
As I was saying, being a Defender means looking first and foremost at your _primary_ powers and asking yourself "which of _these_ do I need to help the _group_". Your own blasting or even survival are the last concern. (E.g., I never took PFF on any of my characters. If I have to drop DB and Leadership to activate that, then I'm not doing my job to protect the group.)
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Is an 'Offensive Defender' really a 'wannabe corrupter'? Do they work well? When I see a defender blasting, it seems to me that they should have taken a blaster, especially when they only have minimum primaries (like say, an Empath with only Healing Aura and Rez - bad sign? prob not possible).
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There are some Offender builds that actually work, but, sad to say, there are also a lot that don't. A good Offender build is a debuffer, and helps the group that way. It's still a group-oriented build, and it still primarily uses its primaries, just incidentally it can also solo well. It's _not_ just a Blaster with self-heal.
On the other hand, an Empath with just Healing Aura and Rez is just a gimped Blaster with a heal. They don't even have anything to boost their own blasts, so they'll be for ever doing about 2/3 of the damage of a Blaster. And at higher levels, it's the buff powers that help the group more than Healing Aura does, so it pretty quickly becomes something that's bordering on useless in a group. (In fact, the common Empathy complaint is being only asked to buff at higher levels and not having much to heal.)
E.g., at levels 40+, if you can't give the party members Clear Mind or Recovery Aura, the Sappers will eat them for breakfast. Just healing a bunch of held and end-drained blasters won't really help the group's xp/sec much. Or fighting Carnies is another poster child for Recovery Aura, since every single killed Carnie fires a 10ft PBAO end-drain as it dies, and then there are the Ring Mistresses which drain with every attack. You wouldn't believe how fast the party's tank can hit zero and gets detoggled if they're not protected from it by either end-drain resistance, regen boost, or just giving them enough defense for that PBAOE to miss.
Mez effects will also become increasingly common in the 20's, so unless you can give Blasters Clear Mind, Accelerate Metabolism or have a Dispersion Bubble (preferrably coupled with small bubles too, so the attack will miss completely), the Blasters may spend half the mission mezzed. Sure, you can heal them with Healing Aura, but they're still not doing any damage in that time.
So, seriously, if anyone just takes a Defender because it has blasts and a healing aura, IMHO they'd be better off just rolling a Blaster and taking Aid Self. With 3 interrupt reductions and something like 2 heal, 1 recharge, it will heal them just as well, and they'll do more damage with their blasts too.
Hmm... now that build on the other hand is completely overkill, IMHO.
E.g., Power Bolt is purely a knockback, and the damage is negligible. For someone whose secondary is Energy, I'm sure they could take an attack that does the same knockback _and_ does some damage too.
E.g., Group Fly is beyond useless. I'd take an attack there, if you ran out of other ideas.
E.g., hmm... I can see some point in Force Bubble, but Repulsion Field too is maybe a bit overkill, at least in PvE. With the small bubbles, DB and Maneuvers, people will only very rarely get hit even if enemies do get into melee range. So the advantage of pushing enemies outside melee range, well, it certainly exists as they can get stuck on just trying to run back in instead of attacking, but it's IMHO fairly small. Plus, it prevents you from positioning yourself so the tanker is in the DB too.
I agree you'll have to learn to like Knockback, but from what I've read I think you're finding yourself on the wrong teams. FF/nrg defenders really come into a class of their own when you have lots of ranged squishies on the team. A Tank won't really notice the bubbles you put on him (well he probably will if you have enough SOs but he can survive without them) but a line of blasters will love being safely clustered inside your PBAOE sheilds. Add to that the fact that if anything gets past the tank and makes a run at you, you have enough knockbacks to send them sailing back into the tank's gauntlet range. You job is not to run around madly buffing everyone but to act as an unbreakable wall for your valuable damage dealers.
Well, people have said it already, but at least your sets have good synergy - knockback. Certainly your toon could be a great PvP tool. Keep a safe haven running for the ranged squishies. Its difficult to manage, but you see teams of masterminds doing it well in SC.
I dont agree that a defender is a second rate controller, which is my understanding of what you have written. They both are supposed to be quite different. I never rely on a controller for defence. Its a mindset which i have developed from experience. In fact, i am always suprised when I find a controller running out of his way to use a last minute aura heal / debuff etc.
Problem, as you know, with the bubble sets is that you have to frontload all your work and then for 4 minutes your reliant on the really poor damage of an unbuffed defender 2ndary. Energy has no great 2ndary effect and hence you no doubt feel like a spare part.
Run a rad/kin/dark/storm and you'll feel much more involved, by necessity, or you really are leaching. Below is just a snippet of what Nikta gets up to in a fight.
<ul type="square">Communicate with tank. Determine intentions. (Without a tank, you can herd quite nicely, within reason, you just cannot maintain agro!)
Debuff a Lt influenced by tanks taunts/damage auras. (Thats 2 toggle debuffs, potentially, 1 click debuff)
Position onself to benefit the effects of your PbAoE Hold Aura (Choking cloud, should you have it)
Open with Irradiate, further reducing the mobs defence to aid the team.
Commence nuking targets under the debuff influence. Possibly contributing 10-15% team damage on an average team.
Throw occational heal.[/list]
It could be argued that controllers can do the same. They can, but with less debuff effectiveness, not sure on the percentages. Also, in most cases, i have to assume that they could be more effective by choosing primaries. Most wont find room for all the 2ndaries a defender would normally take from the primary.
I have debated before that Offenders can do Corrupters quite well. Most dissagreed, but at least there you have THE SAME powersets, implemented in reverse with different base damage and scourge. Essentially however, then CAN be played the same and in some cases, especially with Rad/Rad they work the same. As in, you need to sit in your debuff and you nuke until they drop.
Defender damage will never be increased in my opinion to maintain what they think is a healthy gap between Corrupters / Defenders. Someone made a great suggestion in 'Suggestions' some time back about melee defenders. I think this is a great idea. Energy 2ndary from the blaster pool, or Electricity 2ndary would fit superbly well. Would require some rehashing of Epics though - which is why it wont happen 
Techtower! Stick at your bubbler if you like PvP. If you dont, and want an Active PvE toon, then lets hook up online soon and ill take you out with Nikta in a duo and we can try some things out.
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Dark/Psi is a fun build to play - although I'd be Statesman's best buddy if he let me play a Mind/Dark 'troller. 
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I always wanted a Mind/Dark, possably the only time I'd make a mind controller.
having just sat and read this thread i'll tell you why a defender
cos i like to be a defender..i dont have time to be bored..i find keeping my team mates buffed up and healthy..especially in a big team..keeps me more than busy and if the unusual happens and i find im not doing that then i get stuck in to the fight and blast a few things.
yes i may not be able to solo, and this does mean i have to scout around for team mates occasionally, but i still love silver lady and have made it to lvl 45 all be it slower than my blaster mates
Well I have an ice/storm and just loved the storm set so much that I wanted the full benefit from the debuffs and made a storm/elec defender.
To my surprise the entire playstyle was different. With my controller I was very anal about where the mobs should be and used hurricane only judiciously here and there to push things into my ice slick/debuff zone of control. I hated.. hated... knockback with a passion and if anything got karate kicked out of my little zone of control I was on the verge of losing it.
The stormie though. What a difference. That hurricane goes on the second I'm through the door and only switches off if I get held. I'm moving all the time, dropping debuffs, teleporting around like a frigging Tsoo and firing off tornados and lightning storms, healing here and there if needed, blasting away at any spare opportunity and tesla caging as well. My battle cry is, "Embrace the chaos" and when it all hits the fan it is beautiful, semi-controlled chaos that is always on the verge of going very horribly wrong. I just love it!
Avalanche, that was just beautiful *sniff*.
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Avalanche, that was just beautiful *sniff*.
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yup!
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If you are saying that the secondaries for defenders need a little attention, no argument here. It was the loss of 5 slotted damage that hamstrung me. Up till then I was a poor mans blaster and had 4 or 5 of my secondary slotted up, now I have 2 or 3 and I barely reach for those buttons.
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I wonder how you hit and slot your primairy powers if you have 5 slotted damage anyway
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If you are saying that the secondaries for defenders need a little attention, no argument here. It was the loss of 5 slotted damage that hamstrung me. Up till then I was a poor mans blaster and had 4 or 5 of my secondary slotted up, now I have 2 or 3 and I barely reach for those buttons.
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I wonder how you hit and slot your primairy powers if you have 5 slotted damage anyway
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My storm/elec gets away with 1 endredux and 3 effect (or 3 recharge in freezing rain) enhancers in most of his storm powers quite happily. I think only lightning storm has more than 4 slots. That leaves me with enough slots for two six slotted blasts, a six slotted AoE blast, six slotted nuke and six slotted hold. That's using all the slots up to lvl 40. I haven't looked at the 41+ powers and slots yet and would rather suck it and see and respec a bit instead of paper build something I haven't tried yet.
I have siphon power anf fulcrum shift [/smug]
As someone above said:
Controller = oriented more towards mobs, mostly keeping an eye on mobs
Defender = oriented more towards team, mostly keeping an eye on team
i.e., if you like helping your team be a more efficient killing machine, be a Defender, if you like shaping the battlefield, be a Controller.
There's some crossover, but these are the main themes, IMHO. IOW, as a Controller, I'm constantly zooming out and getting the big picture, trying to anticipate what the team/mobs are doing and either stopping mobs or buffing team/debuffing mobs to compensate for what the mobs or the team are doing (e.g. team mistakes).
As a Defender I'm constantly watching the team, making sure they're always buffed/healthy, or that troublesome mobs are debuffed, or helping a teammate who's got some mob on their back by blasting away; or finishing off wandering/stray mobs that are low on health (this is, I find, the main use of the Defender secondary).
Defenders are also able to solo a bit easier in the early game.
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Mind/Dark? If only, oh, if only....
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Or Illusion/Dark, and be just as annoying as those carnies...
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/e Drool