The presence power pool taunts require an accuracy check, Tanker taunt does not. So a tanker taunt will always hit where as a powerpool taunt might sometimes miss.
IMO a tank doesn't need a taunt that much anymore due to having punchvoke, but taunt is always useful for grabbing aggro off a fellow teammate in over his head.
taunt is as anti ambush power as well as instantly saving the team mate(s) from debt, i'd take presence pool and autohit. My attitude is this if the team is dead you could soon be too so better to autohit. Add to that people who know good tanks dont team with poor aggro managers. Punchvoke uses end what do you do if you are low on it?
He will honor his words; he will definitely carry out his actions. What he promises he will fulfill. He does not care about his bodily self, putting his life and death aside to come forward for another's troubled besiegement. He does not boast about his ability, or shamelessly extol his own virtues. - Sima Qian.
Slotted up a bit, you can fire off taunt and be sure that your targets will be stuck to you for a little while whilst you focus on other things. It's also useful for some AVs (like Infernal). His melee attack is AoE and I've see it do some nasty damage to scrappers. It's much better to keep him taunted at range so he throws a few fireballs at you and the rest of the team is free to crowd round him and bash at leisure. Same principle applies to a few others as well.
It's just generally handy really. 
[ QUOTE ]
Slotted up a bit, you can fire off taunt and be sure that your targets will be stuck to you for a little while whilst you focus on other things. It's also useful for some AVs (like Infernal). His melee attack is AoE and I've see it do some nasty damage to scrappers. It's much better to keep him taunted at range so he throws a few fireballs at you and the rest of the team is free to crowd round him and bash at leisure. Same principle applies to a few others as well.
It's just generally handy really.
[/ QUOTE ]
yeah thats also where punchvokers really fail - "hello team wipe". Unkited Babbage does an aoe at the start and halfway, if he is kited there is no aoe. As much as i love scrappers with taunt this is where some maybe tempted to use it in melee and get people killed, if the tank is kiting dont taunt!
i find most AV's taunted at range are alot less damaging.
He will honor his words; he will definitely carry out his actions. What he promises he will fulfill. He does not care about his bodily self, putting his life and death aside to come forward for another's troubled besiegement. He does not boast about his ability, or shamelessly extol his own virtues. - Sima Qian.
[ QUOTE ]
Anyone have any idea how the presence pool taunts compare to normal tanker taunts? i like the idea of the mass fear that comes at the end of the pool which could be quite helpful.
[/ QUOTE ]
I heard rumours that Provoke can affect more people than Taunt. Someone in the know should confirm..
[ QUOTE ]
Also, on my stone / stone tanker is it worth getting taunt because i seem to hold aggro ok with mud pots but will things change as lvls go up?
[/ QUOTE ]
Taunt is generally not for holding aggro in my opinion, although it can be useful as someone mentioned for keeping an AV taunted at range. Other than that I use it for 2 major things which come up often.
a) Initiating fights.
Taunt an enemy in the centre of a spawn and duck out of sight ( make sure the team is out of sight too ). The enemy comes running to you and they all stay in your Aura, so your team is safest and can use AoEs on all the enemy. This method is REALLY useful against ranged only enemies types, which are scattered liberally through the game. Also you avoid aggroing a 2nd group if you use this method, which can be really useful against enemies like Nemesis with their extremely long range and extremely long aggro range. Fighting battles on your terms rather than the enemies' terms is always a good idea. Slotting range in Taunt for this purpose helps, but isn't that necessary.
b) Controlling spilt Aggro.
You are fighting and for some reason you don't have aggro of the whole spawn, something went wrong and enemies are running round attacking the Blasters, Defenders and controllers or just shooting them at range. Target taunt on your allies when they look in trouble. Whilst ranged attackers won't close, melee enemies will and soon you will have everything under control. Recharge and taunt duration enhancements help here most.
@Unthing ... Mostly on Union.
Provke is supposed to be 5 targets max, same as taunt, but it could be bugged I guess, I don't know anyone who has it.
I really should do something about this signature.
Have the presence pool on my scrapper. Provoke is indeed 5 targets.
Invoke Panic is a really nice power, and so is intimidate, used together they can fear a boss I think (not sure, scrappper has Touch Of Fear and usually stack that for bosses)
Sounds like a good boost for a tank to me anyway
"Well, they found my diary today.
They were appropriately appalled
at the discovery of the eight victims
They're now putting it all together.
Women wrapped in silk
with one leg missing
Eight legs, one body, silk,
spider, brilliant!"
i think the reference was when each punch taunts 5, its not always the same 5 you taunt so in a big group you could be taunting via punchvoke the whole group as you dont hit the same 5 every time you punch.
maybe
@ExtraGonk
ok. Thanks everyone for your info! I think I'll take the presence pool taunts and invoke panic things and keep you all posted because as I said, i think it could be quite useful for a tank to have a mass fear and I dont mind putting some SO's in the mass taunt.
If anyone has any experience with this pool as a tanker plz let me know.
[ QUOTE ]
a) Initiating fights. Taunt an enemy in the centre of a spawn and duck out of sight ( make sure the team is out of sight too ). The enemy comes running to you and they all stay in your Aura, so your team is safest and can use AoEs on all the enemy. This method is REALLY useful against ranged only enemies types, which are scattered liberally through the game. Also you avoid aggroing a 2nd group if you use this method, which can be really useful against enemies like Nemesis with their extremely long range and extremely long aggro range. Fighting battles on your terms rather than the enemies' terms is always a good idea. Slotting range in Taunt for this purpose helps, but isn't that necessary.
b) Controlling spilt Aggro.
You are fighting and for some reason you don't have aggro of the whole spawn, something went wrong and enemies are running round attacking the Blasters, Defenders and controllers or just shooting them at range. Target taunt on your allies when they look in trouble. Whilst ranged attackers won't close, melee enemies will and soon you will have everything under control. Recharge and taunt duration enhancements help here most.
[/ QUOTE ]
Sadly many people know this and STILL run in or a blaster decides to pull to create pointless mayhem, and there will always be scrankers with team members dying around them. I personally watch them die and.......sigh.
Presence pool taunts can miss when you least want them too especially if your accuracy is debuffed enough and requires endurance which is why if i was taking that road i'll have the auto hit taunt too.
He will honor his words; he will definitely carry out his actions. What he promises he will fulfill. He does not care about his bodily self, putting his life and death aside to come forward for another's troubled besiegement. He does not boast about his ability, or shamelessly extol his own virtues. - Sima Qian.
[ QUOTE ]
i think the reference was when each punch taunts 5, its not always the same 5 you taunt so in a big group you could be taunting via punchvoke the whole group as you dont hit the same 5 every time you punch.
maybe
[/ QUOTE ]
AFAIK :
A single target tanker attack will taunt the target and up to 5 enemies near him for a short time. I believe the attack has to hit to do this.
An Area Effect tanker attack will taunt every target that it hits. All Area Effects have maximum number of targets that they can hit. Usually this is 10.
A tanker taunt aura will taunt every target in it's area effect, taunt auras usually have a high number of max targets ( 14 perhaps ). These have a short pulse rate and a taunt duration around the pulse I believe.
The Taunt power of the secondary will Taunt the target and the 5 nearest enemies in the area effect of the taunt for a long time ( many seconds ). It is auto-hit.
The Provoke power acts like the Taunt power but requires a to hit roll.
@Unthing ... Mostly on Union.
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Anyone have any idea how the presence pool taunts compare to normal tanker taunts? i like the idea of the mass fear that comes at the end of the pool which could be quite helpful.
[/ QUOTE ]
I heard rumours that Provoke can affect more people than Taunt. Someone in the know should confirm..
[/ QUOTE ]
Provoke used to effect more enemies than Taunt and under some circumstances still can - it has a larger AoE around the original target. They're both capped at 5, though, so unless the enemies are quite spread out there's unlikely to be a difference.
By my 50s shall ye know me:
Tundra, DVM, The Late, Neutrino Ghost, Sir Clanksalot, End Of Days, Prof. Migraine
Howler Monkey
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Anyone have any idea how the presence pool taunts compare to normal tanker taunts? i like the idea of the mass fear that comes at the end of the pool which could be quite helpful.
[/ QUOTE ]
I heard rumours that Provoke can affect more people than Taunt. Someone in the know should confirm..
[/ QUOTE ]
Provoke used to effect more enemies than Taunt and under some circumstances still can - it has a larger AoE around the original target. They're both capped at 5, though, so unless the enemies are quite spread out there's unlikely to be a difference.
[/ QUOTE ]
Yup, both Taunt and Provoke are capped at 5 targets, but the AoE of Provoke is a bit wider.
I wudn't take provoke over taunt for any reason, only the to-hit check makes it far too worse than the tankers' Taunt: it needs heavy slotting to be effective(at least 2 acc, 1 taunt and 2 rec red) if you're fighting CoT it's likely that you'll have some kind of -acc from Death Mages or Nerva Demons making more likely that you miss, if you fight Creys any MoG'd PP will ravage across the room because you'll keep missing him(tried this with my WS, 2 acc in my taunt, a Dwarf Mire goin, Fortitude and i was still missing the Antagonize), all kind of foes with high defense(rikti drones on top of em)will be harder to taunt.
However if you want both or want the powers from the Presence pool Provoke can be handy, far less efficent, it unlocks the fears but can0t match Taunt.
Plus if you're stone you'll need to slot Taunt with 3 rec red and 3 taunts(because Granite Armor slows you a lot hence the need of more recharge and more taunt duration)leaving no spare slots to put accuracy in if you pick Provoke.
Do you think the bad sides of provoke are made up by the access to fear powers then?
A tanker without taunt is just a scrapper with lower damage output. I would ultimately prefer someone more useful on the team.
Having said that "taunt" doesn't necessarily mean the taunt power. Mud pots are a great way of handling agro and if you use them for full effect (i.e. herd the mobs) then taunt is unnecessary.
Plus, if the team's on the ball it can take full advantage of them as well. Your mudpots are a great place for team members to hide.
I have an empath healer and we were doing one of the troll missions in the Hollows. The team wasn't well organised and went rushing in where it should have pulled just as a patrol turned up. Bottom line is everyone except me (an empath) and a tanker with mudpots survived. Completely surrounded by mob, the tank was taking an utter hiding but I could just keep ahead of the damage and I was only taking the odd hit.
BTW, Punchvoke is one notch above useless when it comes to holding agro.
(\_/)
(O.O) Bunny: Our time is coming
(> <)
I would personally say that taunt is necessary, I believe more members of the team die without it. If you actually want to protect your team as best as a tank can then get taunt.
It isn't that hard for your teammates to pull a person out of the agro range of mud pots, CE etc. I have when playing a squishey died and wondered why that tank didn't grab the agro off me only to find when I look at his powers he had no taunt.
Your teammates are not always able to run into mud pots etc and have the agro taken away. Many mobs will resort to long range rather than following and some mobs already around the tank will do AOE damage which will hurt/kill the squishey.
I suppose if you have no taunt you dont have to be so aware of what is happening with your team / watching the team health as you can do little about it without taking the mob surrounding you with you. You can then concentrate on hitting things
Having taunt is half the battle, knowing how to use it is also important. Was on a team a little while back (2 tanks on it, I wasn't one of them) and people were dying every fight. The team leader kept asking the tanks to taunt more rather than scrank. One replies "I have taunt on auto". Great, that's the five you're already taunting with gauntlet aggroed then..... 
[ QUOTE ]
Your mudpots are a great place for team members to hide
[/ QUOTE ]
Next to the tank is not always the safest place to be, especially against some mobs. I remember when someone lured a few GMs to portal corp and I was stood around in GA throwing out the odd taunt to try and minimize the deaths. An SG mate (scrapper) comes to stand next to me to watch as well, just as one of the GMs throws something at me. He faceplanted straight away and I was like "yeah, wouldn't stand there if I was you mate..." 
[ QUOTE ]
Do you think the bad sides of provoke are made up by the access to fear powers then?
[/ QUOTE ]
Hi there, both taunt and provoke are great although the changes to tanks (max number of those that can be taunted) have affected it greatly.
I have both and can tell you that the presence pool is great. The combination of taunt and fear is very effective at crowd and aggro control.
Also if you PvP (player vs player) then having two taunts is very handy in a team (so is having and using fear).
Heros
Max Powerz: Lv 50 Tanker
Villains
Max Khaos: Lv 50
Overlord of E.V.I.L.
My Brute - http://maxy-khaos.mybrute.com/
LF SG! Arc ID# 193083
[ QUOTE ]
Do you think the bad sides of provoke are made up by the access to fear powers then?
[/ QUOTE ]
in a way yes, but i wouldnt still wouldnt always rely on presence pools taunts to save team mates from certain debt, an autohit taunt would still be included in my build.
He will honor his words; he will definitely carry out his actions. What he promises he will fulfill. He does not care about his bodily self, putting his life and death aside to come forward for another's troubled besiegement. He does not boast about his ability, or shamelessly extol his own virtues. - Sima Qian.
I've got intimidate and invoke panic on mr cuddles and although it definitely increases your survivability both powers are a bit rubbish unslotted.
invoke panic uses a ton of endurance too so needs slotting for acc, fear duration and end reduction.
They are ok but they take a lot of slots to get anywhere near good.
Having two taunts is really damn useful though
I like the idea of 2 taunts as this would really help with split groups, thanks for comments all
provoke is faster than taunt to actually use.
split groups - if you have your pbaoe taunt running and then you stand in one group and taunt the far group you dont need 2 taunts, it would probably allow you to try and control 3 groups though, good for stone to alternate as well.
tanking without taunt, you just need to change tack and use other tools, i've currently got a SS tank at 33 that doesnt have taunt and uses handclap as the primary taunt tool instead, it makes for a much more hair raising chaotic game but ultimately fun in a different way than being the 'rock' in the middle, and having tanken a tanker to 50 already playing that stand-in-the-middle role it does get a bit dull.
condemning tanks without taunt as bad tanks or missing the point is just pigeon holing tanks who know what they are doing without taunt with the bad tanks who really dont pick taunt because it 'gets them too much agro and i'll die'
i do think until the higher levels taunt does just great with the single slot on it, once you're post 35-40 it does need either a minor amount of recharge or some taunt in it, personally i go for recharge as it allows a seperate group to be taunted faster than one group taunted for longer.
@ExtraGonk
[ QUOTE ]
tanking without taunt, you just need to change tack and use other tools, i've currently got a SS tank at 33 that doesnt have taunt and uses handclap as the primary taunt tool instead, it makes for a much more hair raising chaotic game but ultimately fun in a different way than being the 'rock' in the middle, and having tanken a tanker to 50 already playing that stand-in-the-middle role it does get a bit dull.
[/ QUOTE ]
I used Combustion for my major melee aggro grabbing move for 40 levels. Taunt is a safer pull though. Having a tanker control the pulling means that they get the alpha and can choose their battleground. It isn't necessary for all mob types but there are some that can easily get out of hand if you fight them in their spawn place in a large team, Nemesis are my prime example. I guess that Hurl or similar ranged attack could be used for this too though.
[ QUOTE ]
i do think until the higher levels taunt does just great with the single slot on it, once you're post 35-40 it does need either a minor amount of recharge or some taunt in it, personally i go for recharge as it allows a seperate group to be taunted faster than one group taunted for longer.
[/ QUOTE ]
I started slotting mine in the late 40s. It suddenly made things way more fun when I had 3 slots of range in it.
@Unthing ... Mostly on Union.
I found out that my best 'Taunts' are currently Footstomp and Fireball..
Footstomp is awesome to keep the aggro if they slip out of the range of Invincibility and Firebal can take aggro off anything, I saved more people with my fireball than with taunt 
Fireball is a really good pulling too aswell :S
Anyone have any idea how the presence pool taunts compare to normal tanker taunts? i like the idea of the mass fear that comes at the end of the pool which could be quite helpful.
Also, on my stone / stone tanker is it worth getting taunt because i seem to hold aggro ok with mud pots but will things change as lvls go up?
Any help much appreciated
Cheers