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if you're in a PvP zone yourself, facing an opponent you can't beat and is continually hunting you then you have no choice but to leave.
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The other choices being, buy Yellow Inspirations, IR Goggles or team with someone that has Tactics.
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Note the presence of the word "yourself". Can't team with someone who isn't there. The goggles thing, fair enough.
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(O.O) Bunny: Our time is coming
(> <)
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And no, I'll NOT be keeping my predictions to myself. This is a public forum and I have as much right to air my views as anyone else.
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actually you are right on that and apologies as i am out of line regarding that comment. You have every right to air your views.
Web granades aren't likely to help much anymore whether the stalker has downed Lucks or not, most have picked up status protection by now. I cant speak for all but i know mine includes protection against immobilisation.
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There is no opponent that is unbeatable.
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That is utter nonesense. I spent some time in the arena testing my build and know for a fact that there are opponents I can't beat and there's builds that can't beat me.
I'm not suggesting this applies to the situation with myself and the stalker, but there are plenty of builds that simply can't defeat each other in a 1 to 1 scenario.
Before you reply to this, think about this, for you to KNOW your statement to be true you must have fought every possible build with... every possible build.
For me to know my statement is true all I have to know is ONE build that can't defeat ONE other build.
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If there was an opponent that was unbeatable by everyother build, he probably needs a nerf. I think the Rock, Paper, Scissors thing works great.
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If there was an opponent that was unbeatable by everyother build, he probably needs a nerf. I think the Rock, Paper, Scissors thing works great.
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and thats why i say noone is unbeatable. Rock,scissors works very nicely. Just because one set cant beat another it doesnt mean its unbeatable.Everyone got weaknesses
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When i first entered Sirens i was getting flattened because of two things. 1. I was low level and next to no SO's 2. The sheer overwhelming number of heros against the villains.
I didnt leave the zone to never come back again, i started asking questions and talking to people who knew more about PvP as i didnt really know much as i hadn't used the arena much because i simply didnt like it.
Now however i am level 26 but thanks to PvP am fully slotted with SO's and the amount of villains entering Sirens is increasing dramatically.
I might also point out that playing my stalker there i often find myself against 3 or 4 heroes. I don't complain that they are too many, i try and pick them off one by one. A lot of the time i end up dead 
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That's you and I salute that attitude. I had a great time in Siren's when I teamed with a couple of heroes against *I think* an equal amount of villains. Great fights, the MM was especially infuriating (in a good way) in that I could see his pets, but he remained hidden - as any good MM should in my opinion. Unfortunately I had to leave before I really wanted to. But was having a whale of a time and that's what PvP should be imho.
I think I'm really driving at the 1 on 1. Regardless what TG says there are builds that other builds simply can't beat
other ones and if you're repeatedly hammering someone there comes a point where it's tantamount to bullying.
Put it another way. I am a very good pool player, when I'm on my game I'd go as far as to say exceptional. I've not met many people who can beat my best game, and I've played a lot of people.
Now, when I'm playing someone who's obviously not as good, do I go in giving it my all, put as much effort as I can into beating them?
No. I relax a bit and take on ridiculously hard shots (crowd pleasers if they come off), make sure I don't leave them snookered. I give them a game. I consider their viewpoint. No one wants to be seven balled so I make a point of not doing it. They have more fun and I get to play some outlandish shots - which against a better player I can't as I have to be more conservative.
So my question to the PvPers who thing hammering someone time and time again is ok is; why don't you do this, why do you feel it necessary to put everything you've got into beating someone time and time again?
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(O.O) Bunny: Our time is coming
(> <)
Aside all this, if a PVE player is in a PVP zone doing the instanced missions, they are often working towards achieving objectives that have a direct effect on the rest on the players in the zone, ie: defense debuffs, damage resistance, & or damage output debuffs.
Now if I'm playing my hero, or villain, in a PVP zone & I see a villain, or hero, trying to complete these missions then I'm afraid I'm going to try & take you out, PVE build or not, & I'm saying that as someone with 90% PVE build.
If you're doing those objective based, debuff/buff based missions then you're having an effect on how my character performs in the zone, & I'm sorry, but if that's going to be a negative effect, then I'm going to fight for it. If that player comes back & tries again, then again, sorry, I'll try to stop you again.
I go to PVP zones because a) I'm a badge [censored] & PVP zones have some badges b) I like the PVE instanced missions in PVP zones and c) I enjoy a bout of PVP a hell of a lot, oh and d) almost, almost, by & large nearly all the time I have a laugh with people I'm fighting with or against. We joke about getting beat, we compare how people are playing or what powers they have.
I have no where near a PVP weighted build, I have good bouts & bad bouts. I spend a lot of time licking dirt, & sometimes I spend a good amount of time dishing out a spanking. I know a high level brute is going to hand me a spanking, I know that raditaion infection will have me slinging spines into mid air, and I know that the damn hurricane is going to knock me around something silly. I also know that if I'm in a PVP zone trying to complete those missions, then PVE build or not, I'm going to get some attention.
Not saying that this applies to any posters here, but what bewilders me are those people that get found in the middle of a PVP zone & then start throwing the "PVE" rattle out of the pram when they get attacked. When people in a PVP zone get attacked & start shouting "LOSER", "MORON", or "GO PLAY HALO" over broadcast they need to take a second to reflect on just how completely dumb they are coming across.
Put it this way, should I be getting my petition pad out in the Hollows & starting chalking up everyone doing Frosty for the nth time 
?
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if you're in a PvP zone yourself, facing an opponent you can't beat and is continually hunting you then you have no choice but to leave.
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The other choices being, buy Yellow Inspirations, IR Goggles or team with someone that has Tactics.
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Note the presence of the word "yourself". Can't team with someone who isn't there. The goggles thing, fair enough.
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If I'm in a PvP zone and I'm outnumbered I use Arena Chat to ask for help. I have Tactics in my build so I can see most Stalkers. I did come across several villains last night who were employing new ways of attacking me and some were very effective.
For instance a Brute that popped a Rage and then dropped down next to me from high up (off my screen) hit me with a high damage blow that also stunned me so I couldn't do anything, then proceeded to send me to the hospital. I returned to his position and sent him to the hospital, with the help of my team. 
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and thats why i say noone is unbeatable. Rock,scissors works very nicely. Just because one set cant beat another it doesnt mean its unbeatable.Everyone got weaknesses
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A slight tune change? Remember we were talking about 1 on 1 when you claimed no one was unbeatable.
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(O.O) Bunny: Our time is coming
(> <)
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and thats why i say noone is unbeatable. Rock,scissors works very nicely. Just because one set cant beat another it doesnt mean its unbeatable.Everyone got weaknesses
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A slight tune change? Remember we were talking about 1 on 1 when you claimed no one was unbeatable.
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Why would you want every AT to be beatable in 1 on 1?
Or do I have my wires crossed?
Please post quotes and explain what you're arguing about.
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[A slight tune change? Remember we were talking about 1 on 1 when you claimed no one was unbeatable.
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I am on a one on one basis still. There is no AT that is unbeatable by any other AT.Everyone got weaknesses
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Not saying that this applies to any posters here, but what bewilders me are those people that get found in the middle of a PVP zone & then start throwing the "PVE" rattle out of the pram when they get attacked. When people in a PVP zone get attacked & start shouting "LOSER", "MORON", or "GO PLAY HALO" over broadcast they need to take a second to reflect on just how completely dumb they are coming across.
Put it this way, should I be getting my petition pad out in the Hollows & starting chalking up everyone doing Frosty for the nth time ?
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No, coz Frosty doesn't care - he's a good sport that way.
But if I'm off to a PvE mission in Warburg, aside from it usually being devoid of another living soul, getting away from an opponent to the mission hardly seems like a drama. I ALWAYS carry at least 3bfs if going into a PvP zone, so even if a controller has a pop at me, I drop a bf and contine on my merry way. Once I'm at the mission I'm out of harms way (from other players that is).
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(O.O) Bunny: Our time is coming
(> <)
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and thats why i say noone is unbeatable. Rock,scissors works very nicely. Just because one set cant beat another it doesnt mean its unbeatable.Everyone got weaknesses
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A slight tune change? Remember we were talking about 1 on 1 when you claimed no one was unbeatable.
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Says the man who as a regen scrapper was chased out the zone by a lone stalker, and then says they are an excellent player, one who isn't prepared to use or change their tactics to try and overcome a foe who is giving them a bit of trouble. PvP is massively different to Pve in play style and as a regen scrapper even with a pve build you wouldn't need to make any changes in your build to be 'effective' never mind an out and out PvP build. I don't have any real harcore PvP builds. I have changed a couple of my 50s to be more effective but I always want the option to still do some of my old pve tricks too, you don't have to be a gimp character in either to be effective in both, and again as a scrapper this applies massively so to your toon.
Many of us have posted our thoughts on the situation innigo, you seem to be selective quoting people here for the sake of having an argument about different points and ignoring some of the constructive ideas and thoughts on the position you were in.
For the record, on Union the zone of Sirens call is often an excellent place for PvP in the evenings, I can't comment about defiant but I suspect its pretty good too. No-one really gets ganked that much, if one side is massively outnumbered you tend to get a fair few observers just studying the fight. If two people say there is a duel going on they tend to be left to it as well.
All good fun, I don't think I have encountered anyone who really rocked the boat in terms of bad sportsmanship. There will be some of course, but its not like its impossible to either avoid them, or get a sneaky kill on them with other folk around.
And yes some builds may never be able to beat others in 1 vs 1, CoH/CoV won't and will never be balanced to this for PvP unless you want all the power sets to be the same.
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I am on a one on one basis still. There is no AT that is unbeatable by any other AT.Everyone got weaknesses
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Before I tell you you're wrong, again. Lets be very clear. Your claim is that any specific build can beat any other specific build?
Obviously you've reached this conclusion through rigorous testing of every possible build combination... or possibly just guessing?
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(O.O) Bunny: Our time is coming
(> <)
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There is no AT that is unbeatable by any other AT
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This statement is entirely true. However as you point out its not about one AT against another AT. There are numerous combinations possible in each AT, and yes some combinations may make it impossible to beat another. [edit - talking on a 1 on 1 basis. For example its impossible for me to beat TG as he keeps hurricane running. I suppose this means it isnt impossible for me to kill someone with storm, but it means its only possible to kill one who is daft enough not to have hurricane running when fighting me as i can then do nothing]
I do think that you aren't as good at PvP as you think you are if you cant beat a lone Stalker. I can beat regens, it takes some time, but i can kill them. They have also killed me on a good few occasions.
If i may ask, what is your primary?
Sry, at work, hardly any time to keep up with the overall thread.
As for 'complaining'. If you accuse others of not being 'grown up' about particular aspects, you are merely invalidating your 'observations'. You could have posted without any reference to the age, mental or otherwise, of other players. You did not. Therefore by making such a reference you are 'complaining' rather than 'observing' and henceforth the correct use of 'English'.
Observation is purely based on witnessing an event/action/person without injecting your own personal trait labelling. The fact that you pepper your posts by refering to others as 'childlike' or lacking skills in reading English means that you cannot engage on an constructive debate and take/give points without feeling that you must be condescending in order to get others to submit to what you are saying.
I have also been AS'd by a stalker 4 times in SC. I commend him for it, and feel no hardship towards him. I was in the zone, I was a target, if I didn't like what he was doing I had the option to leave the zone. Also my empath has no chance against any other AT solo, so why should i grief at a player who was just playing in the zone as he should?
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I do think that you aren't as good at PvP as you think you are if you cant beat a lone Stalker. I can beat regens, it takes some time, but i can kill them. They have also killed me on a good few occasions. If i may ask, what is your primary?
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Don't get me wrong, I'm very bad at PvP. Especially in Siren's thanks to my last sloppy respec @ 37. Consequently I've have powers missing that I really miss - most notably SJ and I couldn't even begin to imagine the state of my slots.
The issue at hand isn't my ability at PvP, not even the fight with the stalker, which ultimately could have been very different had I known a bit more.
The issue here is that given as I gratefully note you agreed with that there are builds that can't defeat other builds and in such a circumstance surely the decent thing to do would be to back off once this has been realised.
Just to make sure everyone reading this is clear - I'm not suggesting that me versus the stalker was an example of this - that was more to do with my inexperience of that AT. I'll get you next time!!! *shakes fist*
Incidentally my primary is the katana.
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(O.O) Bunny: Our time is coming
(> <)
What really nerks me off in Warburg are the villains who bolt it straight to the mission and plop through the door before my TP Foe has finished firing off - that's just plain inconsiderate! :P
I asked your primary, because i remember Dimension giving me a hell of a time in PvP. He's DM, and his touch of fear got me everytime, that combined with the Acc debuffs every time he hit me makes it a hard power set to defeat for a stalker at least. I haven't fought him since getting status protection, but i'd take a guess that he will still be one of the tougher scrappers to fight, simply because he is DM and that i know him to be a very good scrapper.
Ninja Blade is basically the same set as your Katana, i find that with this i'm missing out on what other sets have... status effects. Its much easier to fight an opponent when you have a chance of de-buffing, or disorienting them etc with each hit.
Are there any high level Stalkers reading this thread? I'm wondering how scrappery we become as we get higher as i'm noticing more and more that i'm capable of staying to 'scrap' it out for longer times. I'm looking forward to gaining levels and being able to fight to the death with others on occasion
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Before I tell you you're wrong, again. Lets be very clear. Your claim is that any specific build can beat any other specific build?
Obviously you've reached this conclusion through rigorous testing of every possible build combination... or possibly just guessing?
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I claim the obvious that every AT and combo set has its weaknesses and can be beaten by other AT's and combos.
A stormie might give trouble to DM scrapper but have serious issues with a claws one. There is no build that is not possible to beat in anyway.
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yes some combinations may make it impossible to beat another
[/ QUOTE ] This is the obvious part due to the rock scissors situation which works just fine. The issue imho with most is that they not understand maybe the PvP is very VERY team orientated and not so much for solo. So the best PvP fun comes from teams that complement each other weaknesses and thats what makes a really good PvP team and thats the way to go for building seriously good PVP builds. You not try to cover up the weaknesses that is obvious you got you simply strenghten as much as possible all your strong points about your build and make sure your weaknesses are complemented by the next AT in your PvP team. Thats the way i go regarding PvP always. The build i got for my empath and my controller doesnt try cover up weaknesses only maximize the good skills that are already there. In a team that goes this way as a whole its deadly as its been observed many many times till now.
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I do think that you aren't as good at PvP as you think you are if you cant beat a lone Stalker. I can beat regens, it takes some time, but i can kill them. They have also killed me on a good few occasions. If i may ask, what is your primary?
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Don't get me wrong, I'm very bad at PvP. Especially in Siren's thanks to my last sloppy respec @ 37. Consequently I've have powers missing that I really miss - most notably SJ and I couldn't even begin to imagine the state of my slots.
The issue at hand isn't my ability at PvP, not even the fight with the stalker, which ultimately could have been very different had I known a bit more.
The issue here is that given as I gratefully note you agreed with that there are builds that can't defeat other builds and in such a circumstance surely the decent thing to do would be to back off once this has been realised.
Just to make sure everyone reading this is clear - I'm not suggesting that me versus the stalker was an example of this - that was more to do with my inexperience of that AT. I'll get you next time!!! *shakes fist*
Incidentally my primary is the katana.
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Everyone is rubbish at PVP to begin with, it was only when Talin kept battering me that I resolved to change this I turned my rage into something contructive (revenge 
) My stalker and brute can now give Talin a run for his money and vice versa which is how I see things should be. Dont get annoyed when people beat you (easy thing to say, harder to actually do ) just try to learn from it. If the stalker in question backs off, you will not learn their weaknesses. For example me and TG were in BB kicking bottom and battering all who came out of the villain base untill suddenly they organised, learned and started killing us.
As you say though, build helps massively and the squishiest ATs are not always the weakest, Talin being a controller should go down a lot more than he does and G-zeus is a pain in the proverbial for a squishy empath.
All I will say is watch, learn, team and talk and you will ahve a great time in the PVP zones (and get +3 SOs ) It is slightly hit and miss at the moment becuase people are still going through the new content but last night there was at least 10 heroes and 10 villains battling it out in sirens for a while and it was great fun (except when I died, that only happens when people cheat )
**Acceptable "support" responses**
Its your fault
Its your computers fault
Its your ISPs fault
As far as Obot post go...any of the dedicated PvPers out there besides the battering etc and the occasional trashtalk we have never EVER refused help to anyone that wanted to get some tips about builds AT's and some PvP tricks and trades that some people might not know. I am no expert but i do try my best and help anyone that asks help regarding PvP. I team with random teams, i try advise anyway i can if is necessary about tactics or if someone asks about build and thats how most of the PvPers on Defiant at least go. The problem starts when people get killed and they just go ballistic on broadcast and forums.Ask around and try to improve maybe a few points of your PvP playstyle and you will see sgnificant change about it.And yeah at the beginning of PvP experience everyone is rubbish. The only advantage most of us had was that we did hardcore arena fights and that gave us chance to explore our PvP build potential to the max. I owe a lot to plight and his FFA matches since there i tested all my build and potential and learned the tricks of my build.
Quite alot of the 50's in the PvP zones were in S4 and know more about what works and what doesn't. Of course there are always new things to learn, which is why we couldn't beat the French
I helped a SR scrapper in Siren's the other night. He was having trouble with Stalkers so I told him to turn on Focus Senses and Focus Fighting
He didn't know anything about perception.
TG, I humbly request some training in PvP then, preferably in a team so I could know what I am supposed to do there. I havent got on many PvP teams as my evenings are usually spent playing PvE with alts. Certainly not in any good teams. I'd like to experience this fun of PVP, but havent had any luck so far.
As for 1-on-1, I know my tank cant beat another tank or a scrapper. Thats not even a theoretical possiblity unless their build is really weak and they dont know how to play. There are numerous other AT builds I also cant beat, but for scrappers and tanks its regardless of their build or powersets.
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Thats a pretty heavy prediction considering that Sirens Call and Bloody Bay at peak times have loas of people and Warburg is slowly starting to have increased villains population as more and more approach limit cap. Last week i counted 3 villains last night 12 doing missions etc.
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And yet every time I'm in Siren's Call, at peak times, it's a ghost town. Last night was the busiest I'd ever seen it, with three heroes and three villains.
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If you think PvP isnt successful i not see why all SG's are trying to obtain a full IoP ready base. Expect PvP to escalate a lot more.
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That's a possibility, but we'll see what happens after the first few base raids and the potentially collosal repair bills those SGs could be looking at after each raid. I'd guess that atm most SGs don't know what they want (coz it's all still new). In general I'm against my SG getting involved in the IoP aspect. It all looks like a major headache for such a minimal benefit.
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As for ganking...yeah its really bad your experience was ruined by a single "ganking" stalker.I feel for you especially at the part you say you could do nothing. Btw there is a temp power you can buy in Sirens Call called Web Grenade immobilizes fleeing stalkers.
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Hehe, it was that temp power that got me killed. Hitting heal only ever resulted in him taking off at high speed so I had to gamble. Knock-up, web grenade and then heal, b4 finishing him off. Unfortunately he'd downed a couple of lucks b4 moving in for the assassins strike, both attacks missed and down I went.
But whilst I concede there were things I could have done - the IR goggles for example, my point wasn't really about that specific fight, but it got me thinking.
Some of you PvP boys are so damned defensive it's impossible to have a conversation or for some of you to realise I'm actually on your side and trying to promote an active PvP element. I WANT to go into Warburg and Siren's and get on an 8 man team and start noising up those nasty villains.
But my point is this, if you go hammering on some n00b or on someone with an obvious PvE build and KEEP hammering on him then you're going to put them off and how is that good for PvP?
If you've got someone obviously outclassed and you've beat him several time, for the love of G-o-d, give him some peace after that. If his name keeps appearing on the bounty thing, then odds are he's the only hero/villain in there. Why would you want to put someone off PvP?
All I'm suggesting is that some restraint be exercised - obvious to some this it blatantly unreasonable. "It's PvP we can do what we want."
Look at it this way, if you're on a PvE team, and someone keeps kicking it off before you're ready, gets out of their depth and rushes back to the group, dragging half the map behind him and getting himself and the rest of team wiped out, and keeps doing, you're probably less than amused.
Why? He's paying his £9 a month same as everyone else, surely he's entitled to play the game however he sees fit? Should he give a damn that his playstyle is adversely affecting others?
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Finally if your PvP experience is limited regarding the visits you take to the PvP zones as you say since as you say you not know about Bloody Bay and apparently you not know about Warburg as well please keep predictions to your self since you not even got the raw facts.
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And now your guessing. I'm in Warburg a lot, not for long admittedly as there's rarely anyone here. And no, I'll NOT be keeping my predictions to myself. This is a public forum and I have as much right to air my views as anyone else. If you don't want to read them then that's your business. How'd you fancy me telling you to keep your opinions to yourself?
Game is still PvE with noone forcing you to PvP and that doesnt change at all your PvE experience.
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(O.O) Bunny: Our time is coming
(> <)