Questioning the MMO Trinity?

Defenders would like to have a work with you about poor inherents.

I like the idea of increasing self-buff numbers, make Build Up more useful and I'm happy.

The thing is, it's just too late in this game's life to implement massive changes like the ones suggested in here. Buffs, nerfs and tweaks attract enough pandemonium, imagine the outcry if they really messed with the status quo.

Champions Online seems to be an interesting experiment into a free-form system, but it's a different game that was developed that way from the start. There's really no comparison when it comes to each system.

Frankly, I wasn't going of Champions Online at all (I don't know enough about it) but rather off a video I saw from DC Universe Online, where the Narrator talks about how a power in offensive mode shoots lightning whereas the same power in defensive mode does pretty much a carbon copy of Tesla Cage. I also don't want to get into discussions about what City of Heroes would be like with a free-choice points system. That ship has sailed. I mean, it's fun to think about it, but here I want to keep to something that is at least remotely realistic.

One of the things I have always hated about traditional MMO balance is that every class is designed with at least a few things that the class expressly CANNOT do. I guess that's part of the course for designing around a teaming structure, but it is individually limiting to a high extent. Looking at our game, however, we already have an out - Dual Builds. Originally designed to alleviate the problem of needing a specific build for PvP that's different from what's best for PvP, the expanded system was marketed as a way to, among other things, have a solo build and a team build. I mean that's not all it's designed to do, but it's still a possibility. We can, theoretically, build on that and allow different builds to actually be of different ATs. It's just a question of what is allowed.

Now, I want to say something right here - that's a direct AT-for-AT swap. No picking and choosing of primaries and secondaries out of a unipool of powersets like you can in the Architect. One of the overriding priorities of my train of thought is to propose an addition that does NOT break any balancing points anywhere in the game, or at the very least which damages as few as possible. Free power selection has proven to not work in this game and ATs were designed around both limiting raw power and reducing the the ability to gimp. That's not a structure I want to mess with, not least of all because I want to work WITH the system, rather than trying to overhaul it.

Look at it this way: you have a Fire/Fire Scrapper called Flame Dude and a Fire/Fire controller called FIame Dude. Functionally, the difference between having just one Flame Dude who can visit a trainer and switch between Scrapper and Controller is almost completely identical to having both a Scrapper and a Controller and logging out of one and into the other. Granted, with two characters, you have to level up to 50 twice as many times as for one character with two builds, but look at it from a different perspective.

I have a Dark/Dark Scrapper I made before I4. When Dark Melee and Dark Armour were ported over to Brutes, I didn't make one. Why bother? I already have the exact same combination. I made a Fire/Fire Brute at some point in I9 or I10. When Fiery Melee and Fiery Aura were ported over to Scrappers, I saw no reason to make one. I already had that combination. Well, suppose my Fiery Melee/Fiery Aura Brute doubled up as a Fire Control/Fiery Assault Dominator? Then I would very much jump at the chance to make a new Fiery Melee/ Fiery Aura Scrapper and I would dual-class him as a Fire Blast/Fire Manipulation Blaster. This adds one extra step of variety, which in turn means we can make more things with the tools we already have without resorting to duplicates.

Granted, this is a kludge. The system was never designed to even consider this kind of multi-classing in the way a points system would, where you pick ability themes and then pick what you do with these abilities afterwards. Perhaps, from a conceptual standpoint, such a points system would be superior, but I'm not confident it will be quite as straightforward as a class system. But that's besides the point. We already HAVE a class system. The point is to find a way to branch out without having to go NGE.

I believe such a system of dual-classing would be good for the game. As I said, it would add more variety and, being that you have your extra class from level 1, should allow people to get familiar with their alter ego. What's more, that ought to put an end to the debates about making non-solo-proficient classes more solo-proficient, because those who want to solo will always have a second class to play when they're not on a team. This might actually allow for team-centric classes to become even more team-centric when there's an out.

I also understand that this is tantamount to an AT respec, and I know how the community views those. I don't believe this is as much a problem, however, as this isn't a respec, it's part of the same character. It's done once at character creation and cannot be altered again. Granted, if this were allowed, for existing level 50s it WILL be the next best thing to an AT respec, but they will not abandon their old AT and will not be able to change their minds. There's also the potential problem of messing with player character balance, but since this only really switches from one stable state to another, it shouldn't present such a problem. Provided we either time this AT switchover to once every 15 minutes or even to having to visit the trainer to do it, such that people aren't switching around all the time, then I don't see it as a meaningful problem.

It doesn't help Tankers feel more like the tanks of comic books and it doesn't solve my problem with make-pretend threat, but what it does is it gives us more flexibility to adapt to situations and it just makes it so you can pick your strengths and your weaknesses so you're never in a position of wishing to just log out and play another AT.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Arcanaville Samuel_Tow is the only poster that makes me want to punch him in the head more often when I'm agreeing with him than when I'm disagreeing with him.

I think the 'problem'. if you want to look at it that way is more basic, more fundamental:

- In order for people to be motivated to team for tactical reasons, there have to be tactical rewards for teaming and tactical penalties for not teaming. In other words, there has to be content labeled and designed for balanced teams wherein NOT having a balanced team is suicide, and the rewards have to be commensurate,

- Once you have the above, then the boards immediately explode into whinefests about 'forced teaming', because then people want to get the new or extra shineys without frustrating multiple defeats, and also without changing their builds, teammates or tactics.

- That said, I would be fully in favor of new tougher and more (oruniquely) rewarding 'team missions' sort of like the higher end S/TFs we have now, just with it fully acknowledged that any complaints about not being able to beat it with the average PUG will be met with hearty laughter by the devs

A it currently is, 90% of this game is solo friendly, and that's fine. You should be able to solo to the cap...but there should be more content for those who enjoy building and running a well-oiled machine of a team as well.