not always I have seen people beat ioed out purple toons with so'ed out toons. Knowing what to use when goes miles over button mashing OMG I LOST BUT I HAVE UBER FORUM BUILD. Good pvper's (solo and team) will figure out elite builds and strats, great pvpers will do the same and then figure out how to beat themselves. You learn a lot from losing.
[ QUOTE ]
Build > Skill
Always has been. Players see a build that's successful and they copy it. That's how pvp has worked since the beginning.
AE has made copying good builds easier than ever before. As a result, you see the homogeny mentioned in the OP.
I have always wanted a pvp server with an auto-level to 50 feature that would eliminate the need to PL pvp toons. On a server like that, you would likely see a vast majority of players using the same FoTM builds.
People have always wanted to use the best pvp builds, but leveling up new toons takes time, especially for the masses (i.e., those who are not in a group that was willing to level new toons endlessly). That's changed with the introduction of AE.
I think it's a good thing. Now, after the l33t player pwns the nub and broadcasts "reroll nub" the player may do just that and come back the next day/week/month with a copy of the l33t toon.
When everyone's using the same toons, you can begin to see who is actually a better player than the next guy. Unfortunately, that does hurt the l33t player's ego a bit, as he realizes that it's his powersets that set him apart from the nub more so than his leet pvp skills.
Anyway, you can blame the dev's changes to pvp for all the FoTM's you see, or you can THANK the dev's for creating AE and making leveling so much easier. I, for one, thank the dev's.
If AE had been in place (as is) three years ago, you would have seen the exact same impact on the diversity in pvp zones that you are seeing now.
[/ QUOTE ]
lol
@macskull, @Not Mac | XBL: macskull | Steam: macskull | Skype: macskull
"One day we all may see each other elsewhere. In Tyria, in Azeroth. We may pass each other and never know it. And that's sad. But if nothing else, we'll still have Rhode Island."
"One day we all may see each other elsewhere. In Tyria, in Azeroth. We may pass each other and never know it. And that's sad. But if nothing else, we'll still have Rhode Island."
[ QUOTE ]
MMs need a nerf bat to the face.
[/ QUOTE ]
um k why?
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MMs need a nerf bat to the face.
[/ QUOTE ]
um k why?
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The same reason everything else needs a nerf. Cause she said so. 
MMs don't need a nerf. People need to stop thinking in fightclub terms.
P.s. I disagree. I'm a nub PvPer with the best IOs. I'll challenge any lvl 50 with training enhancements to a duel and beat them.
P.s.s. I still think your sig would be just as valid if you removed "Test".
Wow, you're so awesome.
@macskull, @Not Mac | XBL: macskull | Steam: macskull | Skype: macskull
"One day we all may see each other elsewhere. In Tyria, in Azeroth. We may pass each other and never know it. And that's sad. But if nothing else, we'll still have Rhode Island."
"One day we all may see each other elsewhere. In Tyria, in Azeroth. We may pass each other and never know it. And that's sad. But if nothing else, we'll still have Rhode Island."
[ QUOTE ]
Wow, you're so awesome.
[/ QUOTE ]
Why, thank-you for noticing. 
I said so's not to's
[ QUOTE ]
I said so's not to's
[/ QUOTE ]
Hey, if the PvPer has PvP skillz they should beat me regardless what they slot in their enhancements amiryte?
Quote:
Since when? Since when is PvP less diverse then what it used to be? Are you referring to the times before i13 when EVERYONE was an Elec/SS or EM Brute? Or how about when everyone was a Spines/Regen scrapper? How bout when every blaster was Fire/EM or Ice/EM? Or maybe you are referring to the time when everyone was a Ice/EM Hibernoob Tank? PvP in CoH has never been diverse - just different sets were FOTM. At least now Peacebringers aren't complete **** in PvP like they used to be.
| Our once richly diverse pvp... |
Quote:
Actually, it's all on the user this guy from triumph Dawun used to run a pb in i12 and he was unkillible solo. Also he had enough offense to kill most, he stayed chasing vills, he took a underpowered toon and made it viable. This was always the case, most noobs couldn't grasp, you could really take anything save WS's (i have never seen one viable) and guess what? They still aren't, but buffers buffed and were useful, debuffs actually counted, take today for instance.|
Originally Posted by Jotch
Since when? Since when is PvP less diverse then what it used to be? Are you referring to the times before i13 when EVERYONE was an Elec/SS or EM Brute? Or how about when everyone was a Spines/Regen scrapper? How bout when every blaster was Fire/EM or Ice/EM? Or maybe you are referring to the time when everyone was a Ice/EM Hibernoob Tank? PvP in CoH has never been diverse - just different sets were FOTM. At least now Peacebringers aren't complete **** in PvP like they used to be.
|
I got on my tank, and kited around picking of soft targets, all the while i had slows and other debuffs on me, ran through caltrops, np and in this new pvp the only debuff that matters is end drain. And since the other debuffs are such a joke, it makes end drain seem op'd in comparison. Another instance i got tp'd, into a group of 3 MM's, one traps, one poison, and a storm and i made it out alive np, all the while poison debuffed, caltroped and what ever eles have you including slows. That is plain stupid, and broken, it went from one extreem to the next. I remember slows being feared and very effective, every toon shouldnt be effective against every toon, it was better as a rock paper sissors type of fight.
My tank probably would do bad versus a dom, but that blaster on my team could fight a dom well, but that fort could fight a blaster well, a scrapper could fight that fort and so on and so forth. It wasnt perfect, but it made sense, buffers played a large role in any teams success, now i can't remember the last time i had a support toon on my pvp team. And if you see them, their built for damage and solo play. Pvp is not in a better place than before, it is only different, and worst off in alot of aspects.
The funny thing is, even though you seem like one of the whiners that got the changes made in the first place, you're probably still bad..------Macskull on Crop_of_shaolin
http://ravens-wins.mybrute.com
Quote:
That's odd, I don't remember those times.
|
Originally Posted by Jotch
Since when? Since when is PvP less diverse then what it used to be? Are you referring to the times before i13 when EVERYONE was an Elec/SS or EM Brute? Or how about when everyone was a Spines/Regen scrapper? How bout when every blaster was Fire/EM or Ice/EM? Or maybe you are referring to the time when everyone was a Ice/EM Hibernoob Tank? PvP in CoH has never been diverse - just different sets were FOTM. At least now Peacebringers aren't complete **** in PvP like they used to be.
|
@macskull, @Not Mac | XBL: macskull | Steam: macskull | Skype: macskull
"One day we all may see each other elsewhere. In Tyria, in Azeroth. We may pass each other and never know it. And that's sad. But if nothing else, we'll still have Rhode Island."
"One day we all may see each other elsewhere. In Tyria, in Azeroth. We may pass each other and never know it. And that's sad. But if nothing else, we'll still have Rhode Island."
Quote:
Many of you that know me know I do not play in RV much, so most of what I say is more aimed at Sirens zone.|
Originally Posted by macskull
That's odd, I don't remember those times.
|
Right now, Sirens is nothing but a Blaster/tank infested place. Mainly fire, sonic and psy and with devs as a secondary. With those blasters you will normally find one or two Emp's dishing out fort, cm and heals and when this happens. Vils are normally pinned into the base and that is normally the way it stays until the said blasters and emps get bored and leave.
Is this down to good teamwork? Possibly, but I would have to say it is more down to the fact that the players are now using this bad PVP system to their advantage. ie, damage wins now full stop. When you have more than 5 or 6 blasters on you, forget it or phase.
Pre i13, you would bring alts into counter, but with the fact with heal decay, DR, speed suppression it makes it a lot harder to do this. Everyone I know now that used to play alts for buffing, have either switched to a damage alt or left the game. For example, my rad/pain corr now doesn't have what you would have expected pre i13. I don't have buffs that would be considered helpful to my team mates. Why? because they virtually have no effect on them. now she is built for damage only.
Another example would have to be Slows. Stormies, Colds, Ice have been reduced to a ghost of their former self's. When you applied Snow storm on someone, you knew it would reduce their speed down by the percentage said, but now, players hardly notice that it is on them, all except their recharge speed goes down slightly (Even this can be countered with IO's now). So what is the point of bringing a chocolate gun to a gun fight, in the mid day sun?
All I can say is that all the sense in pvp has been knocked out. As someone who doesn't regard herself as a great player like many of the people I know, at least I know that skill mattered in PVP before. You had to read the game, understand what was needed to best defeat the other team. Now, it is just a 'Gank feast' of damage, and with players that previously who would never have stood a chance, getting kills the don't deserve.
I'd walked away from PvP when "Jump the Shark" came out, and I've ventured back in lately when I saw there were more numbers in the zones. Not much better, though.
Base Camping seems to be on the rise, but more dangerous for the campers. When the opposition comes out in a group, there's no back and forth movement or reaction to the attack, powers now render us flat footed, so ganks become the order of the day.
Suppression just sucks the life out of PvP soooo badly.
Build > Skill
Always has been. Players see a build that's successful and they copy it. That's how pvp has worked since the beginning.
AE has made copying good builds easier than ever before. As a result, you see the homogeny mentioned in the OP.
I have always wanted a pvp server with an auto-level to 50 feature that would eliminate the need to PL pvp toons. On a server like that, you would likely see a vast majority of players using the same FoTM builds.
People have always wanted to use the best pvp builds, but leveling up new toons takes time, especially for the masses (i.e., those who are not in a group that was willing to level new toons endlessly). That's changed with the introduction of AE.
I think it's a good thing. Now, after the l33t player pwns the nub and broadcasts "reroll nub" the player may do just that and come back the next day/week/month with a copy of the l33t toon.
When everyone's using the same toons, you can begin to see who is actually a better player than the next guy. Unfortunately, that does hurt the l33t player's ego a bit, as he realizes that it's his powersets that set him apart from the nub more so than his leet pvp skills.
Anyway, you can blame the dev's changes to pvp for all the FoTM's you see, or you can THANK the dev's for creating AE and making leveling so much easier. I, for one, thank the dev's.
If AE had been in place (as is) three years ago, you would have seen the exact same impact on the diversity in pvp zones that you are seeing now.