I don't see defenders whining that they're ineffective on teams.
While Power Boost sounds nice to give Defenders as an inherent, it's pretty useless for Sonic and Cold, and not super useful for Kinetics or Dark. Substituting one useless inherent for another isn't the way to fix anything.
http://www.fimfiction.net/story/36641/My-Little-Exalt
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I don't see defenders whining that they're ineffective on teams.
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I am specifically referring to Vigilance.
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Defender - Vigilance - utter crap compared to every AT inherent. The problem is this isn't an easy one to fix since the support sets are all completely erratic in numerical values and they all need to be balanced out some to even start talking about a redesigned inherent for the entire AT.
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An endurance discount when you're on teams is boring and in most cases, unnecessary.
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Ok, so we know that Vigilance sucks. Everyone's known this ever since it was first introduced. Even the people who will come into this thread, quote those first two sentences and say that they like Vigilance actually secretly hate it.
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Defiance got re-written into something that was actually useful. Vigilance is crap.. and its still crap...
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Vigilance is hated. I'm suggesting a complete overhaul to achieve two goals: Keep it thematic, and make it useful.
If you have a suggestion to make this idea better, then feel free to share, rather than just say "No." and walk out.
The off-beat space pirate...Capt. Stormrider (50+3 Elec/Storm Science Corruptor)
The mysterious Djinn...Emerald Dervish (50+1 DB/DA Magic Stalker)
The psychotic inventor...Dollmaster (50 Bot/FF Tech Mastermind)
Virtue Forever.
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While Power Boost sounds nice to give Defenders as an inherent, it's pretty useless for Sonic and Cold, and not super useful for Kinetics or Dark. Substituting one useless inherent for another isn't the way to fix anything.
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I seem to have made an error. I had completely forgotten PB has no effect on Resistance or Damage buffs/debuffs. That is a problem...
Back to the drawing board on that one.
The off-beat space pirate...Capt. Stormrider (50+3 Elec/Storm Science Corruptor)
The mysterious Djinn...Emerald Dervish (50+1 DB/DA Magic Stalker)
The psychotic inventor...Dollmaster (50 Bot/FF Tech Mastermind)
Virtue Forever.
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While Power Boost sounds nice to give Defenders as an inherent, it's pretty useless for Sonic and Cold, and not super useful for Kinetics or Dark. Substituting one useless inherent for another isn't the way to fix anything.
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Mez Protection runs into a similar problem: it's not much use to Sonic or FF, who already have significant amounts and see limited use to the current Vigilance, being primarily proactive mitigation.
We'll always have Paragon.
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Vigilance is hated.
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Says you.
After 3 lvl50 def's (emp, dark, kin) and a 4th coming up (cold), I don't hate it and am fine with it as is. I have seen players indicate it could be tweaked but definitely not saying "hated".
So /unsigned to the OP.
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I don't see defenders whining that they're ineffective on teams.
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I am specifically referring to Vigilance.
[/ QUOTE ]Which is part of defenders and which makes up the overall power level of defenders.
If you think vigilance needs a buff on principle, you have clearly not been paying attention to the last three years of the game, and if you think that defenders need more incentive to team you haven't played one.
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Vigilance is hated.
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Says you.
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No, says a lot of people. Edit: Although, it's not as hated as some would think, it's still a bit of a ways from being loved.
There was a thread awhile ago that Castle participated in. Those quotes were from that thread. Er... I think.
Personal opinion on how Suggestions and Ideas should work: If you don't like the suggested idea, tell him why it sucks. Give an alternate idea, if possible. If you have no ideas to add, at least give him information to tweak the idea or convince him to try again.
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Vigilance is hated.
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Says you.
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No, says a lot of people. Edit: Although, it's not as hated as some would think, it's still a bit of a ways from being loved.
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Nice way to contradict yourself. And I would love to meet these people. Apparently you have and can speak for all of them.
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Personal opinion on how Suggestions and Ideas should work: If you don't like the suggested idea, tell him why it sucks. Give an alternate idea, if possible. If you have no ideas to add, at least give him information to tweak the idea or convince him to try again.
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Ah great, another one that assumes. Look at my post history and you would see I have brought up points on other people's suggestions.
Say from today.
Or from the 20th.
Or from July 1.
Or what about from June 29.
Note I stuck to replies on the orignal idea rather than other replies.
I would prefer if this not devolve into the usual CoX Forum garbage.
To those that had constructive input, thank you. I had overlooked some things which make my idea invalid.
Now, if you don't mind, let this thread be buried and be done with it. People are so god damn touchy around here...
The off-beat space pirate...Capt. Stormrider (50+3 Elec/Storm Science Corruptor)
The mysterious Djinn...Emerald Dervish (50+1 DB/DA Magic Stalker)
The psychotic inventor...Dollmaster (50 Bot/FF Tech Mastermind)
Virtue Forever.
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Lots and lots of quotes.
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Er... I didn't contradict myself. I think. I also apologize if I made my post seem rude. It was unintentional.
Edit: I still want to make a point: Every suggestion thread should be treated as original (Original is not the same as good), and feedback should be provided in the same manner. Link to an existing thread if one is available.
Vigilance is utterly useless. While not everyone HATES it, there's absolutely nobody who finds it useful. I don't know any Defender who has ever said, "Man, I tried to save the team but I just ran out of Endo!"
You're just being snotty, Penny.
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People are so god damn touchy around here...
[/ QUOTE ]Physician, heal thyself.
My point was that a buff to vigilance would be a global buff to defenders. And I don't see them needing it. If it got even better in teams, I really don't see any defender needing that. Is it really that hard to grasp? Is that somehow unreasonable to consider worth consideration?
This thread sums up my reasons for never suggesting anything again. Instead of offering constructive criticism, people just come in and say "ur idea suks and so do u."
Anyways, I agree that vigilance desperately needs to be changed. The Power Boost suggestion was good, now they just need to make it extend to enhancing defense/resistance.
Arc ID: 348998 - Becoming a villain
Arc ID: 373341 - To Save a Hero
Got Inf?
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This thread sums up my reasons for never suggesting anything again. Instead of offering constructive criticism, people just come in and say "ur idea suks and so do u."
[/ QUOTE ]'Can you prove this is useful or necessary' isn't a useful question to ask?
Wait. You said 'needs.' And you put it in bold. Can't argue with that.
I like Vigilance as it currently stands. I get good use out of it on my Empathy Defender. By slotting my heals, attacks and buffs for end discount I am able to completely skip Stamina and run Leadership toggles while hovering, attacking, healing and buffing and I'm rarely hurting for endurance. It's largely because of Vigilance when I'm on large teams and I'm getting a decent end discount at most times.
Simple fact is, that Empathy can benefit from the current vigilance greatly and I am built around the way it operates. I would definitely not appreciate having to revamp the entire build because my endurance discount was removed. However, other powersets like Force Field and Sonic specifically don't benefit much from the current Vigilance. The support powersets are too varied in their abilities to easily benefit equally from the same bonus. Sonic and Force Field don't need scaling mez protection since they get it in a power selection, Power Boost doesn't really help them out that much either, same as an endurance discount. All of those ideas would work vary well for other powersets though.
Point being, replacing Vigilance with something that still doesn't help all the powersets doesn't really address the problems with it.
50s: Anaxagoras - En/En/For Blaster, Vicious Kittie - Claws/SR Scrapper, Rad. Therapy - Emp/Rad/For Defender, Anaximander - En/En/Mu Brute, Marble Vanguard - Stone/EM Tanker
Current: Vitriolic - 42 Bots/Poison MM, Aseity - 38 DB/WP Scrapper, Tai Shar - 42 Earth/Storm
Please, no. No changes to vigilance.
A lot of team support defenders I know seldom bother with stamina and even those that do it means they're layout buffs, debuffs, and heals faster than they're end can recover.
if I lost the endurance discount my defender wouldn't be able to support her team like she does.
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Samuel_Tow
City of Heroes is a game about freedom of expression and variety of experiences far more so than it is about representing any one theme, topic or genre.
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Please, no. No changes to vigilance.
A lot of team support defenders I know seldom bother with stamina and even those that do it means they're layout buffs, debuffs, and heals faster than they're end can recover.
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srsly, vigilance doesn't have that great of an effect on defenders and if it did people wouldn't be complaining about it being underpowered.
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if I lost the endurance discount my defender wouldn't be able to support her team like she does.
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if, in fact, ALL you were using was the end discount from vigilance, then you werent laying down enough to make a noticeable difference anyway(unless you were popping a [censored] load o blues).
By the way, I would be one of the ones who hates vigilance. It sucks. IT DOES. compared to other inherent powers, short of gauntlet which i also think needs to be changed but thats for another time, Vigilance has little to no effect on gameplay. see containment, scourge, fury, and domination. change it. not necessarily /signed to this idea but /signed to some kind of change.
personally, after looking at the definition of vigilance, something along the lines of + recharge. perhaps something along the lines of the more people on the team the more +recharge is given with yourself giving the largest amount (4% ?) then an additional 1 for each new team member. seems like a possible route. it would effect both the primary and secondary. maybe even a high mag (3?) to sleep and hold. I also wouldn't be apposed to a small defense bonus but i highly doubt that will happen.
Positron's i13 letter: We are trying to make PvP more accessible to new players, while giving experienced PvP'ers the advantage that comes with formulating tactics around the new systems we're putting in place. PvP from now on will be on our priority list. If something isn't working out, we'll be in there tweaking it and making it work, for the entire future of the product, not just Issue 13.
This is what should be done to vigilance (imho):
---include the defender in the calculations for the end reduction
------this means it can actually do something solo
---add in some inverse code to it...when everyone is high in health (in the green), the defender gets a boost to their secondary's secondary effects
------so when no one needs buffs/debuffs from their primary, defenders can blast and get more use out of them
------it would be coded like containment, in that a second amount would be added if the requirements are met (this is better than a powerboost since it would help every set)
I recently had a few ideas concerning the Defender inherant, Vigilance. As it stands, many people dislike the power...And I can certainly understand why. I have been playing a Defender recently, and likewise would love to see it revamped heavily. Therefore, I would like to share my thoughts. For this idea, the current effects of Vigilance would be entirely replaced with two new effects.
Effect 1 - Mez Protection
For each member of the team in critical health, the Defender gains 1.5 Magnitude protection to all status effects. This includes the Defender themselves, and can reach a maximum of 12 Magnitude on a full team.
How is this thematic?
Imagine the scenario: Your team is falling. Everyone is at critical health. What's worse, you're held helpless. You are dedicated to the team, and through sheer force of will you manage to break free to rush to their aid. Sounds heroic, doesn't it? The entire point of this effect is to alow Defenders to "save the day" unhindered, allowing them freedom to take action when it is most needed.
Effect 2 - Power Boost
For each member of the team in critical health, the Defender gains a 6.25% boost to their powers' secondary effects. This includes the Defender themselves, and can reach a maximum of a 50% boost on a full team.
How is this thematic?
Just like the above, this will grant the Defender boosted capabilities when they need it most, allowing them to turn the tide of a battle instantly with boosted heals, buffs, and debuffs. Once the situation stablizes again, the Defender can relax a bit, and their powers return to normal levels.
The theme here is to recreate Vigilance to emulate the feeling of "saving the day". While it does still have the problem of rewarding you for failing, it is a far more powerful effect than the current endurance discount, and gives a greater feeling of intensity in that you are pushing yourself to the limit for your team's sake. Additionally, counting the Defender's health will allow the power to function in solo play, albiet not at full power. Defenders are a team-based archetype, and should remain that way, therefore they can only experience their full potential on a team.
Share your thoughts. The numbers may need tweaking, I'm sure.
The off-beat space pirate...Capt. Stormrider (50+3 Elec/Storm Science Corruptor)
The mysterious Djinn...Emerald Dervish (50+1 DB/DA Magic Stalker)
The psychotic inventor...Dollmaster (50 Bot/FF Tech Mastermind)
Virtue Forever.