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Keep in mind that a Corruptor's damage base is only 0.75, compared to a Defender's 0.65. You could raise the damage base to 0.70, but if you raised it to 0.75, Defenders would do the same damage as Corruptors, and would have greater buffs besides.
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I doubt many would object to corruptors getting a small damage bump as well. In my view, it's the controller-defender comparison that's really problematic, since one of the two ATs is clearly a high performer -- not so much the defender-corruptor one, where both ATs are kind of meh.
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Cuz, you know, Scourge does absolutely nothing for average damage scalar. There's absolutely no data to support Corrupters more accurately having a .95 ranged damage scalar to account for averaging Scourge in.
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Actually scourge makes it about 0.91 from my data.
[/ QUOTE ]
Either way, it's substantially higher than the base scalar gives it credit for.
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Someone did a big anaysis of it actually tracking it over time vs various mob types. I sort of feel like it was Starsman?, but can't find it now.
iirc though it was like 7% for minions, ~10% for luts, 17-19% for bosses, eb, +.
It isn't quite accurate to just add those numbers to the base modifier. At say 19% scourge rate that works out being closer to a 14 pt increase in the base damage modifier.
ie. .75*1.19 = 0.89
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Keep in mind that a Corruptor's damage base is only 0.75, compared to a Defender's 0.65. You could raise the damage base to 0.70, but if you raised it to 0.75, Defenders would do the same damage as Corruptors, and would have greater buffs besides.
[/ QUOTE ]
I doubt many would object to corruptors getting a small damage bump as well. In my view, it's the controller-defender comparison that's really problematic, since one of the two ATs is clearly a high performer -- not so much the defender-corruptor one, where both ATs are kind of meh.
[/ QUOTE ]
Cuz, you know, Scourge does absolutely nothing for average damage scalar. There's absolutely no data to support Corrupters more accurately having a .95 ranged damage scalar to account for averaging Scourge in.
[/ QUOTE ]
Actually scourge makes it about 0.91 from my data.
[/ QUOTE ]
Either way, it's substantially higher than the base scalar gives it credit for.
[/ QUOTE ]
Someone did a big anaysis of it actually tracking it over time vs various mob types. I sort of feel like it was Starsman?, but can't find it now.
iirc though it was like 7% for minions, ~10% for luts, 17-19% for bosses, eb, +.
It isn't quite accurate to just add those numbers to the base modifier. At say 19% scourge rate that works out being closer to a 14 pt increase in the base damage modifier.
ie. .75*1.19 = 0.89
[/ QUOTE ]
except the overall damage scourge deals over time isn't effected by the con level or max hp of the foe. It's a straight 21.25% increase to the overall damage it takes to kill a foe.
The best you can actually get from scourge is about 20.7% bonus damage and thats while fighting the biggest of the biggest HP bags in the game: GMs. And this assumes you are soloing them, too, so also an inflated number.
The link to my experiment can be found here.
Depending what you are fighting, the bonus is minimal, against even level minions its just about 7%, note this may be better against higher level minions but it requires a lot of level jump for a minion to equate the Lt, who gets about 11% out of scourge.
The flaw with a simple formulaic analysis of scourge (as I attempted to describe in my guide) is that although you may get 21.25%, in practice, even the weakest of attacks will make your target jump from something like 40% to dead or 25% to dead, this makes the optimal scenario impossible to achieve against anything but GMs, or perhaps the new Reinchsman encounter, or extremely resistant foes.
[ QUOTE ]
unless you can magically maintain 8 total stacks of sonic blast -res debuffs 100% of the time, a Rad/Sonic defender will NEVER deal the same damage Sonic/Rad corruptor does. The post I was replying to was claiming that defenders have the potential to do the same damage as a corruptor, which is just no where close to being true.
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You may be right. I thought I had seen posts where players took identical Sonic/Rad corruptors and Rad/Sonic Defenders and demonstrated that the defender outdamaged the corruptor due to the better buff/debuff values. I thought it was solo performance, but I may be misremembering, perhaps it was in a teaming situation, where the better debuffs amplified the whole team's damage.
Why Blasters? Empathy Sucks.
So, you want to be Mental?
What the hell? Let's buff defenders.
Tactics are for those who do not have a big enough hammer. Wisdom is knowing how big your hammer is.
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unless you can magically maintain 8 total stacks of sonic blast -res debuffs 100% of the time, a Rad/Sonic defender will NEVER deal the same damage Sonic/Rad corruptor does. The post I was replying to was claiming that defenders have the potential to do the same damage as a corruptor, which is just no where close to being true.
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You may be right. I thought I had seen posts where players took identical Sonic/Rad corruptors and Rad/Sonic Defenders and demonstrated that the defender outdamaged the corruptor due to the better buff/debuff values. I thought it was solo performance, but I may be misremembering, perhaps it was in a teaming situation, where the better debuffs amplified the whole team's damage.
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You've probably seen one's where they pop pbu first and do a metric ton more burst damage than the corr, but over time the corr is a bit stronger. I say a bit, cause well see my earlier post about what happens when you do more than one attack with sonic.
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Keep in mind that a Corruptor's damage base is only 0.75, compared to a Defender's 0.65. You could raise the damage base to 0.70, but if you raised it to 0.75, Defenders would do the same damage as Corruptors, and would have greater buffs besides.
[/ QUOTE ]
I doubt many would object to corruptors getting a small damage bump as well. In my view, it's the controller-defender comparison that's really problematic, since one of the two ATs is clearly a high performer -- not so much the defender-corruptor one, where both ATs are kind of meh.
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Cuz, you know, Scourge does absolutely nothing for average damage scalar. There's absolutely no data to support Corrupters more accurately having a .95 ranged damage scalar to account for averaging Scourge in.
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Actually scourge makes it about 0.91 from my data.
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Either way, it's substantially higher than the base scalar gives it credit for.
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Someone did a big anaysis of it actually tracking it over time vs various mob types. I sort of feel like it was Starsman?, but can't find it now.
iirc though it was like 7% for minions, ~10% for luts, 17-19% for bosses, eb, +.
It isn't quite accurate to just add those numbers to the base modifier. At say 19% scourge rate that works out being closer to a 14 pt increase in the base damage modifier.
ie. .75*1.19 = 0.89
[/ QUOTE ]
except the overall damage scourge deals over time isn't effected by the con level or max hp of the foe. It's a straight 21.25% increase to the overall damage it takes to kill a foe.
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It isn't. I thought it was. Heck I thought you'd get close to a 35% scourge rate against EB's+, but you don't. It was starsman who did the analysis and I'm glad he has dropped by the thread now. I'm also glad I was so close to remembering his results accurately.
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The best you can actually get from scourge is about 20.7% bonus damage and thats while fighting the biggest of the biggest HP bags in the game: GMs. And this assumes you are soloing them, too, so also an inflated number.
The link to my experiment can be found here.
Depending what you are fighting, the bonus is minimal, against even level minions its just about 7%, note this may be better against higher level minions but it requires a lot of level jump for a minion to equate the Lt, who gets about 11% out of scourge.
The flaw with a simple formulaic analysis of scourge (as I attempted to describe in my guide) is that although you may get 21.25%, in practice, even the weakest of attacks will make your target jump from something like 40% to dead or 25% to dead, this makes the optimal scenario impossible to achieve against anything but GMs, or perhaps the new Reinchsman encounter, or extremely resistant foes.
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I'll concede to the burst killing factor of minions and lts.
However even without scourge factored in, corruptor still ends up being 4% to 16% higher damage when using the same sets. Toss in your 7% for scourge and we're talking a minimum of 11% to 23% that is including the +dmg/-Res debuffs factored in for both ATs. If the idea was that defender +Dmg/-Res is supposed to fill the gap some between corruptors and defenders in damage, it fails heavily.
Just was correcting the note on the 21.25, the guide includes a huge table of averages you can look at, if interested.
As for the Rad/Sonic debate:
Based on cast time and duration, I would assume the sonic build would always keep 4 or 5 stacks of -resist, 20% a pop vs corruptor's 15% a pop, plus the anchor -res for -30%/22.5% respectively, plus Adrenaline Boost 25%/20% respectively (i also ran without it)
I made a bit of numbers and if you are fighting pure minions or lts, the defender may actually pull ahead against even level foes, did not run numbers for purple patch but I assume it would also stay the same up to +3s.
Fighting bosses the fight evens out and both ties against evens, off course corruptors will fare better against higher foes due to purple patch.
Against AVs and GMs, the corruptor will have the edge at all times.
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You've probably seen one's where they pop pbu first and do a metric ton more burst damage than the corr, but over time the corr is a bit stronger.
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No, the builds were identical as far as I recall. It very well may have been team damage being boosted though.
Turbo Ski said:
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If the idea was that defender +Dmg/-Res is supposed to fill the gap some between corruptors and defenders in damage, it fails heavily.
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Well, corruptors are supposed to out-damage defenders, so I expect that to be the case. I wouldn't have been surprised if an outlier or two existed where a defender build might be able to outdamage a corruptor one, but it certainly should not be the norm. Defenders buffs/debuffs being better is more team useful.
A lot of people have stated that corruptor buffs/debuffs, while mildly lower in performance than defenders, still get the job done. That pretty much has to be the case. You wouldn't want to design an AT with the expectation that they have functional buff/debuffs and then allow them to fail to get the job done.
So here is the current case:
Corruptors solo fine (even without exclusively building for it); for a team they bring good buffs/debuffs, and good damage.
Defenders bring great buffs/debuffs and low damage to a team. Soloing experiences vary enough that while I enjoy my defenders, I have to believe a potential for improvement exists. Many of the more reasonable solo defender builds have to make sacrifices in their team powers.
My personal biggest gripe is not time to kill, but endurance to kill. Increasing damage will help my end to kill issue, but I'd rather them keep the slower pace, just with less downtime.
Why Blasters? Empathy Sucks.
So, you want to be Mental?
What the hell? Let's buff defenders.
Tactics are for those who do not have a big enough hammer. Wisdom is knowing how big your hammer is.
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I would assume the sonic build would always keep 4 or 5 stacks of -resist
...
I made a bit of numbers and if you are fighting pure minions or lts, the defender may actually pull ahead against even level foes
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The only issue here is that it doesn't take that many attacks to kill even level lts., much less minions. By the time you stack your 5th blast on a lt., he is probably also dying (maybe that is with Aim up though).
Why Blasters? Empathy Sucks.
So, you want to be Mental?
What the hell? Let's buff defenders.
Tactics are for those who do not have a big enough hammer. Wisdom is knowing how big your hammer is.
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The best you can actually get from scourge is about 20.7% bonus damage and thats while fighting the biggest of the biggest HP bags in the game: GMs. And this assumes you are soloing them, too, so also an inflated number.
The link to my experiment can be found here.
Depending what you are fighting, the bonus is minimal, against even level minions its just about 7%, note this may be better against higher level minions but it requires a lot of level jump for a minion to equate the Lt, who gets about 11% out of scourge.
The flaw with a simple formulaic analysis of scourge (as I attempted to describe in my guide) is that although you may get 21.25%, in practice, even the weakest of attacks will make your target jump from something like 40% to dead or 25% to dead, this makes the optimal scenario impossible to achieve against anything but GMs, or perhaps the new Reinchsman encounter, or extremely resistant foes.
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I'll concede to the burst killing factor of minions and lts.
However even without scourge factored in, corruptor still ends up being 4% to 16% higher damage when using the same sets. Toss in your 7% for scourge and we're talking a minimum of 11% to 23% that is including the +dmg/-Res debuffs factored in for both ATs. If the idea was that defender +Dmg/-Res is supposed to fill the gap some between corruptors and defenders in damage, it fails heavily.
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The only place it fails (if at all) is when solo and it is generally only by a few percentage points. The idea was never that stronger buff/debuff of defs would close the gap until they are producing equitable damage. The idea is that as a whole the stronger buff/debuff puts them into a similar degree of risk and reward. Defs tend to be slower, but more survivable.
Whatever balance gap may exist (very debatable) on teams those few percentage points evaporate when you have 7 other teammates benefiting from an additional 7.5% -res (EF) and an additional 5% +dam each, or being 10% less likely to hit due to stronger RI.
(7.5% x 7 people x 100 damage each = extra 52.5 damage that the corr has to make up for with scourge, this cuts into w/e gap may or may not exist in a straight up comparison).
We know forcemultiplication closes any gaps extremely quickly when the stronger values are applied, just look at how easy "support" classes catch up and exceed the "damage AT"s when they cross buff/debuff.
The problem is pretty much limited to where the devs have done a crappy job and haven't made a meaningful difference in the strength of defender powers vs corr/troller/mm shared powers.
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I would assume the sonic build would always keep 4 or 5 stacks of -resist
...
I made a bit of numbers and if you are fighting pure minions or lts, the defender may actually pull ahead against even level foes
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The only issue here is that it doesn't take that many attacks to kill even level lts., much less minions. By the time you stack your 5th blast on a lt., he is probably also dying (maybe that is with Aim up though).
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Perhaps, but I'd argue that lts can survive more than 3 attacks from a defender or corruptor at the mid levels and higher, unless the attacks are heavy hitters.
Now do note that the corruptor's 7% scourge benefit against minions is an average of thousands of simulated kills, many kills may get no scourge and perhaps about 7% will get a useful scourge that was not wasted due to the base attack being overkill on it's own, so against small sample of foes you may find the rad/sonic defender out damaging the sonic/rad corruptor. These are single target analysis though, and things get ugly and complicated once you enter AoE and even more once you go to complex real game experiences. I'd put my money on the defender against large groups of minions and the corruptor against EBs, AVs and GMs ST damage, at least as far as that specific combo goes.
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fulcrum shift, speed boost, and siphon speed are identical for both ATs
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Missed this earlier on the thread.
Fulkrum Shift is not identical on both ATs, the corruptor debuffs 20% dmg (not a damage buff nor resist debuff, its a foe damage output debuff) and buffs 40% damage while the defender is 25%/50%, mind you, either can easily take anyone to the damage caps with enough foes.
Speed boost and siphon speed, yea those two are basically the same, defender version of siphon speed has a stronger -speed debuff but it's not like anyone cares about that debuff anyways.
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Well, corruptors are supposed to out-damage defenders, so I expect that to be the case. I wouldn't have been surprised if an outlier or two existed where a defender build might be able to outdamage a corruptor one, but it certainly should not be the norm. Defenders buffs/debuffs being better is more team useful.
A lot of people have stated that corruptor buffs/debuffs, while mildly lower in performance than defenders, still get the job done. That pretty much has to be the case. You wouldn't want to design an AT with the expectation that they have functional buff/debuffs and then allow them to fail to get the job done.
So here is the current case:
Corruptors solo fine (even without exclusively building for it); for a team they bring good buffs/debuffs, and good damage.
Defenders bring great buffs/debuffs and low damage to a team. Soloing experiences vary enough that while I enjoy my defenders, I have to believe a potential for improvement exists. Many of the more reasonable solo defender builds have to make sacrifices in their team powers.
My personal biggest gripe is not time to kill, but endurance to kill. Increasing damage will help my end to kill issue, but I'd rather them keep the slower pace, just with less downtime.
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Oh I never said defender damage should perfectly equal, but it should at least be reasonably close enough even without -res/+dmg buffs in effect on either side. currently doesn't really get close to that unless you go Sonic Blast which frankly is overpowered compared its alternatives for defenders, and even corruptors. Raising the defender base damage modifier from 0.65 to 0.70 would at least help out the other blast sets and close the gap a bit better without trumping corruptor damage for the most part. It certainly would be a step in the right direction if they want to properly balance out the numerical flaws in support sets going between primary<->secondary.
In Rad for instance, raising corruptor/controller enervating field from -22.5% resist to -24% would even it out with transition Rad Infection, Lingering Rad, chocking cloud, emp pulse, mutation, and Acc. Metabolism receive. Also making Fallout not being exactly the same for both ATs is another balance tweak that would need to be made.
That's just Rad as a set though, a lot of the other support sets will require a lot more work to fix the inconsistencies.
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The best you can actually get from scourge is about 20.7% bonus damage and thats while fighting the biggest of the biggest HP bags in the game: GMs. And this assumes you are soloing them, too, so also an inflated number.
The link to my experiment can be found here.
Depending what you are fighting, the bonus is minimal, against even level minions its just about 7%, note this may be better against higher level minions but it requires a lot of level jump for a minion to equate the Lt, who gets about 11% out of scourge.
The flaw with a simple formulaic analysis of scourge (as I attempted to describe in my guide) is that although you may get 21.25%, in practice, even the weakest of attacks will make your target jump from something like 40% to dead or 25% to dead, this makes the optimal scenario impossible to achieve against anything but GMs, or perhaps the new Reinchsman encounter, or extremely resistant foes.
[/ QUOTE ]
I'll concede to the burst killing factor of minions and lts.
However even without scourge factored in, corruptor still ends up being 4% to 16% higher damage when using the same sets. Toss in your 7% for scourge and we're talking a minimum of 11% to 23% that is including the +dmg/-Res debuffs factored in for both ATs. If the idea was that defender +Dmg/-Res is supposed to fill the gap some between corruptors and defenders in damage, it fails heavily.
[/ QUOTE ]
The only place it fails (if at all) is when solo and it is generally only by a few percentage points. The idea was never that stronger buff/debuff of defs would close the gap until they are producing equitable damage. The idea is that as a whole the stronger buff/debuff puts them into a similar degree of risk and reward. Defs tend to be slower, but more survivable.
Whatever balance gap may exist (very debatable) on teams those few percentage points evaporate when you have 7 other teammates benefiting from an additional 7.5% -res (EF) and an additional 5% +dam each, or being 10% less likely to hit due to stronger RI.
(7.5% x 7 people x 100 damage each = extra 52.5 damage that the corr has to make up for with scourge, this cuts into w/e gap may or may not exist in a straight up comparison).
We know forcemultiplication closes any gaps extremely quickly when the stronger values are applied, just look at how easy "support" classes catch up and exceed the "damage AT"s when they cross buff/debuff.
The problem is pretty much limited to where the devs have done a crappy job and haven't made a meaningful difference in the strength of defender powers vs corr/troller/mm shared powers.
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Except that much of the extra damage from the better buffs/debuffs are frequently lost in over kill. This is why in many situations lower % buffs/debuffs are just as effective as the higher defender values.
-Insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results. - Albert Einstein.
-I do not feel obliged to believe that the same God who has endowed us with sense, reason, and intellect has intended us to forgo their use. - Galileo Galilei
-When injustice becomes law, resistance becomes duty. - Thomas Jefferson
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fulcrum shift, speed boost, and siphon speed are identical for both ATs
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Missed this earlier on the thread.
Fulkrum Shift is not identical on both ATs, the corruptor debuffs 20% dmg and buffs 40% damage while the defender is 25%/50%, mind you, either can easily take anyone to the damage caps with enough foes.
Speed boost and siphon speed, yea those two are basically the same, defender version of siphon speed has a stronger -speed debuff but it's not like anyone cares about that debuff anyways.
[/ QUOTE ]
the difference between a Defender Fulcrum Shift and corruptor fulcrum shift is only a 10% buff.
Defender radiates one +50% from themselves and +25% per foe up to 10.
Corruptor radiates one +40% from themselves and +25% per foe up to 10.
When the numbers scale up to be a max of 300% and 290%, that 10% difference might as well not even exist.
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The best you can actually get from scourge is about 20.7% bonus damage and thats while fighting the biggest of the biggest HP bags in the game: GMs. And this assumes you are soloing them, too, so also an inflated number.
The link to my experiment can be found here.
Depending what you are fighting, the bonus is minimal, against even level minions its just about 7%, note this may be better against higher level minions but it requires a lot of level jump for a minion to equate the Lt, who gets about 11% out of scourge.
The flaw with a simple formulaic analysis of scourge (as I attempted to describe in my guide) is that although you may get 21.25%, in practice, even the weakest of attacks will make your target jump from something like 40% to dead or 25% to dead, this makes the optimal scenario impossible to achieve against anything but GMs, or perhaps the new Reinchsman encounter, or extremely resistant foes.
[/ QUOTE ]
I'll concede to the burst killing factor of minions and lts.
However even without scourge factored in, corruptor still ends up being 4% to 16% higher damage when using the same sets. Toss in your 7% for scourge and we're talking a minimum of 11% to 23% that is including the +dmg/-Res debuffs factored in for both ATs. If the idea was that defender +Dmg/-Res is supposed to fill the gap some between corruptors and defenders in damage, it fails heavily.
[/ QUOTE ]
The only place it fails (if at all) is when solo and it is generally only by a few percentage points. The idea was never that stronger buff/debuff of defs would close the gap until they are producing equitable damage. The idea is that as a whole the stronger buff/debuff puts them into a similar degree of risk and reward. Defs tend to be slower, but more survivable.
Whatever balance gap may exist (very debatable) on teams those few percentage points evaporate when you have 7 other teammates benefiting from an additional 7.5% -res (EF) and an additional 5% +dam each, or being 10% less likely to hit due to stronger RI.
(7.5% x 7 people x 100 damage each = extra 52.5 damage that the corr has to make up for with scourge, this cuts into w/e gap may or may not exist in a straight up comparison).
We know forcemultiplication closes any gaps extremely quickly when the stronger values are applied, just look at how easy "support" classes catch up and exceed the "damage AT"s when they cross buff/debuff.
The problem is pretty much limited to where the devs have done a crappy job and haven't made a meaningful difference in the strength of defender powers vs corr/troller/mm shared powers.
[/ QUOTE ]
Except that much of the extra damage from the better buffs/debuffs are frequently lost in over kill. This is why in many situations lower % buffs/debuffs are just as effective as the higher defender values.
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I'd argue that if (and I agree sometimes it does) the stronger buff/debuff is resulting in overkill then it is just as likely that scourge is as well.
If we can dismiss stronger buff/debuff as creating unnecessary damage, then it seems only logical that actual extra damage could just as easily be unnecessary. Especially given the back loaded nature of scourge inherently leading to overkill.
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My personal biggest gripe is not time to kill, but endurance to kill. Increasing damage will help my end to kill issue, but I'd rather them keep the slower pace, just with less downtime.
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This reminded me of something from a while back. I don't have a link but some time in the past a Red Name mentioned that Blasters have a built in endurance reduction baked into their blasts. This makes me wonder if Corrupter Blasts were based from Blaster Blast sets and scaled to the correct damage levels only. It feels from play that the Corrupter Blasts are more endurance efficent than Defender which leaves the Defender huffing after a fight while a Corrupter can take a moment and then move on. Well except for the Defenders with End buffs.
Either City of data is incomplete or you got it wrong.
City of data lists a 50% damage buff and a -25 damage debuff.
Login into the game to check real numbers...
Hmmm... I see that 25% there... unfortunately don't have a kin at a level to be able to test this.
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fulcrum shift, speed boost, and siphon speed are identical for both ATs
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Missed this earlier on the thread.
Fulkrum Shift is not identical on both ATs, the corruptor debuffs 20% dmg and buffs 40% damage while the defender is 25%/50%, mind you, either can easily take anyone to the damage caps with enough foes.
Speed boost and siphon speed, yea those two are basically the same, defender version of siphon speed has a stronger -speed debuff but it's not like anyone cares about that debuff anyways.
[/ QUOTE ]
the difference between a Defender Fulcrum Shift and corruptor fulcrum shift is only a 10% buff.
Defender radiates one +50% from themselves and +25% per foe up to 10.
Corruptor radiates one +40% from themselves and +25% per foe up to 10.
When the numbers scale up to be a max of 300% and 290%, that 10% difference might as well not even exist.
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The difference may be small (they also debuff for different amounts) the point is they are not identical
Fulcrum is a glaring example of where they did not make a meaningful difference in the power between AT's. That isn't the fault of defenders though and it isn't evidence that defs need a increase to their base modifier.
Increasing their base modifier wouldn't correct the issue with corrs/trollers buffing to basically the same values with fulcrum. It wouldn't fix speedboost being the same, or all the other kin powers that are too close for comfort.
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Either City of data is incomplete or you got it wrong.
City of data lists a 50% damage buff and a -25 damage debuff.
Login into the game to check real numbers...
Hmmm... I see that 25% there... unfortunately don't have a kin at a level to be able to test this.
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it summons 3 different type of pets total.
First 2 pets:
Debuff Spherical AoE
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* Summon Kinetic Transfer (1s) (PL_StaticObject) at Target
* DMG(All Types) -25% for 30s PvE only [Ignores Enhancements & Buffs]
* DMG(All Types) -25% for 30s If target is a player [Ignores Enhancements & Buffs]
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This one radiates from caster:
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DMG(All Types) +50% for 45s [Ignores Enhancements & Buffs] [Non-resistable]
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This one is summoned by the AoE debuff:
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DMG(All Types) +25% for 45s [Ignores Enhancements & Buffs] [Non-resistable]
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http://www.redtomax.com/data/powers/...netic_Transfer
Click on the 2 links and the link on the debuff pet to see that I'm right here.
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fulcrum shift, speed boost, and siphon speed are identical for both ATs
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Missed this earlier on the thread.
Fulkrum Shift is not identical on both ATs, the corruptor debuffs 20% dmg and buffs 40% damage while the defender is 25%/50%, mind you, either can easily take anyone to the damage caps with enough foes.
Speed boost and siphon speed, yea those two are basically the same, defender version of siphon speed has a stronger -speed debuff but it's not like anyone cares about that debuff anyways.
[/ QUOTE ]
the difference between a Defender Fulcrum Shift and corruptor fulcrum shift is only a 10% buff.
Defender radiates one +50% from themselves and +25% per foe up to 10.
Corruptor radiates one +40% from themselves and +25% per foe up to 10.
When the numbers scale up to be a max of 300% and 290%, that 10% difference might as well not even exist.
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The difference may be small (they also debuff for different amounts) the point is they are not identical
Fulcrum is a glaring example of where they did not make a meaningful difference in the power between AT's. That isn't the fault of defenders though and it isn't evidence that defs need a increase to their base modifier.
Increasing their base modifier wouldn't correct the issue with corrs/trollers buffing to basically the same values with fulcrum. It wouldn't fix speedboost being the same, or all the other kin powers that are too close for comfort.
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A base damage increase is where you would need to start to even begin balancing the support sets. Otherwise you're going to be force to scale the lacking support powers too high to compensate.
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Either City of data is incomplete or you got it wrong.
City of data lists a 50% damage buff and a -25 damage debuff.
Login into the game to check real numbers...
Hmmm... I see that 25% there... unfortunately don't have a kin at a level to be able to test this.
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it summons 3 different type of pets total.
First 2 pets:
Debuff Spherical AoE
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* Summon Kinetic Transfer (1s) (PL_StaticObject) at Target
* DMG(All Types) -25% for 30s PvE only [Ignores Enhancements & Buffs]
* DMG(All Types) -25% for 30s If target is a player [Ignores Enhancements & Buffs]
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This one radiates from caster:
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DMG(All Types) +50% for 45s [Ignores Enhancements & Buffs] [Non-resistable]
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This one is summoned by the AoE debuff:
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DMG(All Types) +25% for 45s [Ignores Enhancements & Buffs] [Non-resistable]
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http://www.redtomax.com/data/powers/...netic_Transfer
Click on the 2 links and the link on the debuff pet to see that I'm right here.
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Hmmm.... thats definitively a bug.... the corruptor and controller pets should be summoning this final 20% kin transfer buff
Apparently nothing is summoning it right now, as City of Data shows what powers summon pets and that one does not have any parent summons listed.
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Raising the defender base damage modifier from 0.65 to 0.70 would at least help out the other blast sets and close the gap a bit better without trumping corruptor damage for the most part.
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I am not entirely opposed to buffing defender damage. I even stated back before I11 that the only reason I could see increasing blaster ranged damage was that it gave room to buff dominator, defender, and corruptor ranged damage without infringing. Doms got their buff, it would be nice to see the others improved as well.
Would a 7.7% increase help? How many fewer attacks will I need to kill various +1 enemies with a defender at level 25, 35, and 45 using Energy Blast?
Why Blasters? Empathy Sucks.
So, you want to be Mental?
What the hell? Let's buff defenders.
Tactics are for those who do not have a big enough hammer. Wisdom is knowing how big your hammer is.
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Keep in mind that a Corruptor's damage base is only 0.75, compared to a Defender's 0.65. You could raise the damage base to 0.70, but if you raised it to 0.75, Defenders would do the same damage as Corruptors, and would have greater buffs besides.
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I doubt many would object to corruptors getting a small damage bump as well. In my view, it's the controller-defender comparison that's really problematic, since one of the two ATs is clearly a high performer -- not so much the defender-corruptor one, where both ATs are kind of meh.
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Cuz, you know, Scourge does absolutely nothing for average damage scalar. There's absolutely no data to support Corrupters more accurately having a .95 ranged damage scalar to account for averaging Scourge in.
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Actually scourge makes it about 0.91 from my data.
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Either way, it's substantially higher than the base scalar gives it credit for.