An unpopular idea.

I just got an idea while reading another "Do something about AE!" thread.

The only real problem I have with AE isn't the fact that people can level stupid fast in it. It's the fact that new players level stupid fast and learn nothing about the game, resulting in hordes of clueless n00bs being churned out on a daily basis.

Had an interesting idea to combat the ignorance that some of these players are displaying:

When you go to train to certain levels, like multiples of 10 maybe, have the trainer ask some basic gameplay questions relating to stuff you should have learned in the last ten levels. You cannot gain your level until you answer the questions correctly. Would be best to make it multiple choice.

There would be nothing preventing players from asking other people for the answers, and players leveling in AE would actually learn something about the game while they are leveling. You could also just guess until you got it right, but once you get it right, you might remember what the answer was and, voila, you learned something!

I was thinking make it 3 questions relating to basic gameplay, the AT that you are playing as, and maybe the specific powerset you are using. New players would learn more about the powers they have and their AT, and experienced players might learn something they didn't know as well.

As you level higher, the questions would get slightly more difficult, but not to the point where only the most hardcore players would know the answer.

There you go, my idea to combat the lack of general knowledge of the game displayed by so many AE leveled players.

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Im not a fan of this idea. It seems a bit sort of patronising, and would be a source of annoyance to me as a dedicated altitis sufferer.

Also, not everyone who plays this game is a native English speaker, for starters. required text is not a great idea for this reason.

Making it multiple choice means that you can button-mash your way through it, so no-one really learns if they dont want to.

What sort of questions were you thinking of? They'd have to be pretty simple to have an unqualified answer.

e.g.

"Who leads the charge into battle?"
a) Tanker
b) Defender
c) Scrapper
d) Blaster
Has a classical "right" answer (Tanker), but you wont hear that on some of the AT boards here, and not because they are wrong.

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c) Scrapper

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This is the correct answer, assuming the scrapper in question is anywhere even vaguely resembling competent. Tank/heals/dps mentality is for games like WoW, not this game.

And that there is precisely why this idea isn't so great. For a lot of things in this game, there isn't one single right answer. Especially when it comes to the customisation - builds and enhancements, specifically. Just because most people slot attack powers with 2 accuracy 3 damage 1 endredux or recharge, doesn't make that the absolute right way to do it. (I'm not even sure if most people do do that, would need datamining to say for sure probably.) Likewise, even such things as petless masterminds are viable characters. (not optimal, but viable)

I say just make the tutorial mandatory on the first couple of characters you make. Maybe expand it a little or add an optional second section covering more advanced concepts.

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[Admin] Emperor Marcus Cole: STOP!
[Admin] Emperor Marcus Cole: WAIT ONE SECOND!
[Admin] Emperor Marcus Cole: WHAT IS A SEAGULL DOING ON MY THRONE!?!?

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What sort of questions were you thinking of? They'd have to be pretty simple to have an unqualified answer.

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How many levels above you can an enhancement be in order to be used?

What is the base defense of Focused Fighting? (powerset specific, someone playing a non-SR scrapper would get a different question, and you can get the answer just by opening your enhancement screen)

Which zone does NOT connect to Perez Park?

Stuff like that. All stuff that has a definite, indisputable answer. No questions that the player would not have the information to answer yet. Like, no Shadow Shard questions at level 10 heroside, or at all villainside.

No questions that have more than one answer. Any veteran player would likely spend no more than 10-20 seconds answering the 3 questions. And new players would learn something about the game while they are playing.

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Turn this game into school and I guarantee you it loses players new and old alike.

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"You don't lose levels. You don't have equipment to wear out, repair, or lose, or that anyone can steal from you. About the only thing lighter than debt they could do is have an NPC walk by, point and laugh before you can go to the hospital or base." -Memphis_Bill
We will honor the past, and fight to the last, it will be a good way to die...

Okay, I guess people would rather have a game full of players who have no idea what they're doing than spend 15 seconds answering a couple questions every 10 levels. Not even hard questions, it's not like I'm suggesting you pass the SAT or write a college term paper.

One can safely assume that the trainers would require some form of test to be passed before they give you your shiny new title. Currently we don't see that test. I figured it wouldn't be that much of a stretch to make it part of the leveling process.

Seems like no one cares if new players play the game, never leave Atlas park and then badmouth the game to their friends because they didn't know anything else about it. That kind of thing gives the game a lot of negative word of mouth publicity, and people tend to believe what their friends tell them over what a game box says.

I started playing because a friend of mine told me about this really cool superhero game you play on your computer. Had he told me that there's a superhero game in which you go into one building and fight stuff that doesn't fight back until you get to the highest level, I never even would have given it a chance.

That's the kind of thing that the AE babies are telling people, I've seen it all over the internet when MMOs are brought up.

That kind of negative publicity leads to a lot of people who may have tried the game and enjoyed it not even giving it a chance because they are being told it has no depth.

My suggestion was an attempt to let new players know there is more out there than what they are seeing in AE.

Questions like "What is the minimum level to enter the Shadow Shard?" would have players going "Shadow Shard? That sounds kind of cool, maybe I'll go check that out." Since the game doesn't ever really tell you it's there it would be a good way to let people know about things.

But people seem to be equating answering a couple simple questions with going to school and being unnecessarily annoyed.

Since no one wants the new players to learn anything I'll just let them badmouth the game I enjoy playing and stop making suggestions to attempt to prevent it.

Later on

Claws

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Since no one wants the new players to learn anything I'll just let them badmouth the game I enjoy playing and stop making suggestions to attempt to prevent it.

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No, this is not what we are saying at all. As far as I can tell, most people would agree with you that something needs to be done about the AE farm babies and their general lack of anything resembling knowledge about the rest of the game.

All we are saying, is that your suggestion is not (in our collective opinions) the best way to go about doing that.

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[Admin] Emperor Marcus Cole: STOP!
[Admin] Emperor Marcus Cole: WAIT ONE SECOND!
[Admin] Emperor Marcus Cole: WHAT IS A SEAGULL DOING ON MY THRONE!?!?

I thought it was pretty reasonable actually.

Say it is 3 questions any time you reach a level that grants a badge title. That's 15 questions throughout the course of your character's 1-50 career. None of the questions would require any information that isn't easily obtainable through normal gameplay. You wouldn't need to know everything about the game to answer them, and if you get it wrong all you have to do is pick a different answer.

People would learn just by answering questions. In an example I listed above I suggested a question of: "How many levels above you can an enhancement be to be usable by you?"

That would pre-empt questions like "What are enhancements?" and "Why can't I equip this level 34 enhancement? I'm level 29."

Questions like:

"Which zone does the yellow line NOT go to?"
A)Steel Canyon
B)Kings Row
C)Talos Island
D)Atlas Park

-OR-

"Who is the first contact you meet in The Hollows?"
A)Gordon Stacy
B)David Wincott
C)Flux
D)Talshak the Mystic

Those questions should be answerable by anyone who has reached level 10. And if they don't know they can always ask someone, or guess until they get it right. It would NOT prevent you from gaining that level.

In the case of the first multiple choice example I gave, in answering the question newbies would learn that they can get to Steel Canyon, Kings Row, and back to Atlas if they use the yellow line, but cannot get to Talos Island that way.

In the second one, you learn that you talk to David Wincott first in The Hollows, which you would know if you had ever been there or tried to get a mission from your second contact.

I'm not asking people to know everything about the game by level 10, which is why I said that the questions should be level appropriate.

I probably flew off the handle a little in my last post, for which I apologize, but it really seemed like people were discarding the idea out of hand without even giving it any thought.

In our society (In the US anyway) it is entirely possible to graduate from high school while having difficulty reading above a 3rd grade level due to the "no child left behind" mentality. That is apparently the result of the perception that it would damage a child's self-esteem to be held back a grade. They won't even allow a child's parents to request that they be held back, because they know what's best, apparently.

Speaking for myself, my self esteem would be damaged more by the realization that I was incapable of simple reading comprehension or basic math than by being held back a grade.

I dropped out of high school and got my G.E.D. within a month of quitting because the curriculum was so dumbed down to keep kids moving along. I made it to 9th grade and wasn't taught anything new for 2 years. Teachers seemed more interested in keeping their students grades up by giving them stuff they already knew than they were in actually teaching them. From everything I have seen it is more difficult nowadays to get a G.E.D. than a high school diploma. The G.E.D. requires you to take a test to get, a diploma just requires you to show up. That bothers me, because people look down on someone with a G.E.D., when most of the time they worked harder to get it than a high school graduate did.

And I'd bet that, based on my grammar and spelling, most of you would never have guessed that I'm a high school dropout. Having a piece of paper does not automatically mean you learned anything, just as NOT having a piece of paper does not mean you didn't.

I can't do anything about the real life school issue, but here I can make suggestions to repair or prevent a perceived problem, that most agree IS a problem.

If anyone has any better ideas to do something about it, please share them.


EDIT: Happy Birthday Rebel!

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Your suggestion has a lot of merit, Claws. The main problem I have with it, is that it halts the player in their tracks. They may have just joined an awesome team and paused to train between missions, and really not want to have to deal with the test right now. Its too much like being told to do what you should do when youve logged in to do what you want.

The idea of throwing out snippets of information like the existence of the Shard is a good one though. I just think it would work better if its presented in a way where the player chooses when to read it.

They've got the newsboys near train stations currently, they're used to advertise new stuff, well, Dual Blades and Willpower still. So I guess they could throw out little factoids about the outside world outside the AE building. Just enough to tease the player - "Read all about it! Lava creatures spotted in the Hollows again!" and so on.

Poster adverts within AE would make sense too.
"See the Shadow Shard: Level 40 heores needed at Firebase Zulu" with an image of the Shard in all its Roger Dean glory.
"Vanguard: Keping Earth Safe" and a still of the mothership in the RWZ.
If this redirects a bit of Atlas spam from farm team announcements to "Whats the Shadow Shard?" then thats a good thing.

For teaching about enhancements:
Have a NPC who gives you build advice maybe? A powers doctor/trainer in AE who scans your build and makes simple suggestions.

eg "
you have no enhancements - this is what they are..."
"your enhancements are out of date - this is the rule of 3 levels..."
"youre still using TOs in your 20s - find the origin store on your map..."

But not

"You have Jump kick five slotted!???!" (because I do... I like it! )

He could even speak to you if you walk past and he detects issues: "Unslotted Boy - may I speak to you for a moment?"

Its a lot like your idea of the trainers testing you, but its done more on the players terms, when they have a moment to spare.

Really, one of the best anti-farmspam measures is the newly announced difficulty settings coming in I16. People wont need fillers anymore.

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I don't understand why people think we need all these tricks to fix things. Simple solution -- level-lock the Architect buildings, restrict exploitable mobs. No more level 50s PLing teams of lowbies, no more enemies that grant disproportionate risk vs. reward.

KISS

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"You don't lose levels. You don't have equipment to wear out, repair, or lose, or that anyone can steal from you. About the only thing lighter than debt they could do is have an NPC walk by, point and laugh before you can go to the hospital or base." -Memphis_Bill
We will honor the past, and fight to the last, it will be a good way to die...

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I don't understand why people think we need all these tricks to fix things. Simple solution -- level-lock the Architect buildings, restrict exploitable mobs. No more level 50s PLing teams of lowbies, no more enemies that grant disproportionate risk vs. reward.

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I have actually given a very good reason why the devs CAN'T level lock AE in another thread.

If they did they would be guilty of false advertising. The AE box on store shelves states explicitly that you can level from 1-50 entirely in AE. If they change that, their box is now lying.

Believe me, some enterprising lawyer who smells a quick buck WILL sue them for false advertising. In a country where someone can get a settlement because they broke their tailbone slipping and falling on a drink they themselves spilled not 30 seconds earlier*, someone will take on a game company for lying to them in a heartbeat.

So, level locking AE is not an option for that reason. NCSoft would either have to spend money on a legal battle, or spend money recalling all the boxes that have false information on them.


(*True story, I'll try to find a link.)

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With AE buildings in every single zone, that's not really true in any way. Nowhere did they say "you can level from 1-50 without having to leave Atlas", what they're saying is "you can level 1-50 entirely through MA arcs". Level-locking the buildings doesn't change that at all.

Also I don't think fear of frivolous litigation should ever be a reason to not do something, but that's another argument entirely.

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"You don't lose levels. You don't have equipment to wear out, repair, or lose, or that anyone can steal from you. About the only thing lighter than debt they could do is have an NPC walk by, point and laugh before you can go to the hospital or base." -Memphis_Bill
We will honor the past, and fight to the last, it will be a good way to die...

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Okay, I guess people would rather have a game full of players who have no idea what they're doing than spend 15 seconds answering a couple questions every 10 levels. Not even hard questions, it's not like I'm suggesting you pass the SAT or write a college term paper.

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That's what's called a "false dichotomy". Just because people aren't fans of your particular suggestion doesn't mean we don't like what you were striving for. I too would like to see people experience the game outside of AE, but your quiz isn't a good solution to the problem.

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Freedom: Blazing Larb, Fiery Fulcrum, Sardan Reborn, Arctic-Frenzy, Wasabi Sam, Mr Smashtastic.

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Okay, I guess people would rather have a game full of players who have no idea what they're doing than spend 15 seconds answering a couple questions every 10 levels. Not even hard questions, it's not like I'm suggesting you pass the SAT or write a college term paper.

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That's what's called a "false dichotomy". Just because people aren't fans of your particular suggestion doesn't mean we don't like what you were striving for. I too would like to see people experience the game outside of AE, but your quiz isn't a good solution to the problem.

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And I apologized for flying off the handle in a later post.

I'll just have to accept that this is an unpopular idea. I still like it, but no one yet has supported it.

But...just because something is unpopular doesn't make it a bad idea. The abolishment of slavery caused a war, but almost everyone would agree now that it was a good thing.

(I am NOT trying to bring an argument of racism into this discussion, I am just giving the best example I can think of of an unpopular idea that turned out to be a good thing)

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What is the base defense of Focused Fighting? (powerset specific, someone playing a non-SR scrapper would get a different question, and you can get the answer just by opening your enhancement screen)



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This question actually took me aback a bit.

I have been playing the game for almost 5 years now, and I have at least one /SR scrapper past 30 - but I don't know this answer off the top of my head. I could find it, sure, but the fact that it is being asked means that the person in charge of gating whether I can level up considers hard numbers way more important than I do.

To me that is a fundamental flaw with the idea of testing before allowing a character to level - who decides what are the truly important things to know about the game?

Also, regardfing some of the geography of Paragon City questions - we have some folks who have played literally for years on redside, who may be starting their first character blueside. I know I have seen several suggested paths of the "good" missions on these forums that skip the Hollows, never touch Perez Park, etc. A veteran player from redside may not know which 4 zones have PP gates - but that doesn't mean they can't play the game!

I am not a big fan of "No Child Left Behind" and this idea just smacks of "No Scrapper Left Behind" paternalism to me, sorry. I can't support someone determining what's "the best way to play" for everyone.

Also, as another altoholic mentioned above, this would annoy the heck out of me having to run thru the same cross-examination every time I start a new character.

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Altoholic - but a Blaster at Heart!

Originally Posted by SpyralPegacyon

"You gave us a world where we could fly. I can't thank you enough for that."

The Focused Fighting question would only be asked to someone who was currently playing a Super Reflexes scrapper. A regen would not be asked that question.

I chose Focused Fighting because it is impossible to skip the power and you can find the information simply by opening your enhancement management screen. The information in question is in parentheses next to the enhanced value.

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......Never mind.

I guess the game asking simply answered questions that can't be ignored is asking too much.

I should know better than to suggest anything in this forum, since anytime someone does it is usually immediately shouted down by people that would rather not be inconvenienced by something.

And if I had simply said "Something should be done about new players not having basic game knowledge." without making a suggestion, I would have caught flak for wasting everyone's time with a pointless post.

It's almost always a lose-lose situation for anyone making a suggestion.

Edit: I'm giving up on this one. Replies have made it clear that no one thinks the game testing your knowledge before you advance is a good thing, so I'm just going to drop it rather than have a 15 page long argument in which everyone and their grandmother tells me how bad of an idea it is.

Peace.

Claws

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Stop being a crybaby. You had a terrible idea and people told you so.

The questions crack me up because my wife has been playing for almost as long as I have and couldn't answer most of them. Every time she plays she asks me about when she can go buy SO's and such, so I guess she's not allowed to level either?

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Okay, I guess people would rather have a game full of players who have no idea what they're doing than spend 15 seconds answering a couple questions every 10 levels. Not even hard questions, it's not like I'm suggesting you pass the SAT or write a college term paper.

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That's what's called a "false dichotomy". Just because people aren't fans of your particular suggestion doesn't mean we don't like what you were striving for. I too would like to see people experience the game outside of AE, but your quiz isn't a good solution to the problem.

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And I apologized for flying off the handle in a later post.

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Oh I missed that. Didn't read the entire thread before I responded. Sorry.

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I'll just have to accept that this is an unpopular idea. I still like it, but no one yet has supported it.

But...just because something is unpopular doesn't make it a bad idea.

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Oh I hear you loud and clear on that! In this very forum I suggested breaking out the challenge slider into separate difficulty/team size settings, and was roundly denounced as an ebil farmer. The ratio of catcalls to posts of support was enormous. It's rather delicious that the devs saw things my way.

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Freedom: Blazing Larb, Fiery Fulcrum, Sardan Reborn, Arctic-Frenzy, Wasabi Sam, Mr Smashtastic.

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No questions that have more than one answer. Any veteran player would likely spend no more than 10-20 seconds answering the 3 questions. And new players would learn something about the game while they are playing.

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I cannot recall offhand or without glancing at maps which zones connect to Perez, and I have been playing since a month after release.

And I don't worry about specific numbers like the base value for X in power Y. That is not about being a veteran, that is about being into number crunching.

I don't bother with trivia (well, not game trivia - I can go on for weeks about old movies, etc.) and would, I fear, resent being required to memorize it for this game.

Not to mention the speed with which answer sheets would go up.

Not to mention the additional broadcast spam about "Hey who's the trainer in Skyway?" or "What is the base speed of Fly at level 12 in furlongs per fortnight?" we'd see.

Not to mention the players I see who know this stuff and wouldn't know tactics (the discipline, not the power) if it bit them on their buffer.

I really dislike this approach to the problem (using the term "problem" advisedly, as it doesn't bother me if people level exclusively to AE, or don't know stuff, etc. - are they pleasant to play with and do they give new stuff a try - otherwise I could care less).

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My scrapper doesn't need an AoE. She IS an AoE.

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Stop being a crybaby. You had a terrible idea and people told you so.

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So, if people disagree with an idea it is automatically terrible, regardless of my opinion, and I'm being a crybaby for attempting to defend an idea that I like.

And giving up on it while explaining my reason for giving up on it is also considered being a crybaby.

I'll just stop having ideas and agree with everyone else's opinions. They have to be right because they outnumber me.

Am I getting it yet?

In every other case where I was disagreed with in this thread, the person doing the disagreeing did not include a personal attack as their opening statement.

You did.

They disagreed with my idea because they didn't like it. Fair enough. I've disagreed with enough ideas myself that I'm not going to expect everyone to praise my idea just because I think it's a good one.

But you felt the need to insult me before even expressing your opinion. Or rather, your insult WAS your opinion.

Maybe I was annoyed that what I thought was a good and reasonable idea was universally slammed and reacted with a little heat. Instead I I'll just accept that everyone else's opinion is more valuable than my own. I'm clearly wrong because everyone said so.

Oh well, it's a terrible idea, everyone said so, and they can't be wrong. Anyone got an idea that I can blindly agree with to atone for the crime of thinking for myself?

That damn ClawsandEffect, he's always coming up with these asinine ideas and then whining about it when people disagree. He's obviously a crybaby, and he thinks that everyone should agree with his idea because he's the only one that knows how to play the game.

There. Feel better now that I agree with you?

(Edit: I apologize to the people who disagreed with me without insulting me in the process, this post is not directed at you. I respect those who have a differing opinion and present it civilly. I will, however, respond to a personal attack)

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Stop being a crybaby. You had a terrible idea and people told you so.

[/ QUOTE ]

So, if people disagree with an idea it is automatically terrible, regardless of my opinion, and I'm being a crybaby for attempting to defend an idea that I like.

And giving up on it while explaining my reason for giving up on it is also considered being a crybaby.

I'll just stop having ideas and agree with everyone else's opinions. They have to be right because they outnumber me.

Am I getting it yet?

In every other case where I was disagreed with in this thread, the person doing the disagreeing did not include a personal attack as their opening statement.

You did.

They disagreed with my idea because they didn't like it. Fair enough. I've disagreed with enough ideas myself that I'm not going to expect everyone to praise my idea just because I think it's a good one.

But you felt the need to insult me before even expressing your opinion. Or rather, your insult WAS your opinion.

Maybe I was annoyed that what I thought was a good and reasonable idea was universally slammed and reacted with a little heat. Instead I I'll just accept that everyone else's opinion is more valuable than my own. I'm clearly wrong because everyone said so.

Oh well, it's a terrible idea, everyone said so, and they can't be wrong. Anyone got an idea that I can blindly agree with to atone for the crime of thinking for myself?

That damn ClawsandEffect, he's always coming up with these asinine ideas and then whining about it when people disagree. He's obviously a crybaby, and he thinks that everyone should agree with his idea because he's the only one that knows how to play the game.

There. Feel better now that I agree with you?

(Edit: I apologize to the people who disagreed with me without insulting me in the process, this post is not directed at you. I respect those who have a differing opinion and present it civilly. I will, however, respond to a personal attack)

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You can have ideas. But this one just wasn't a good.

One of the questions you asked above for example:
At what level do enhancements stop working? Or what level range must you be within for enhancements to be effective/not turn red?

That right there is a problem question. Why? Because with IOs the question is irrelevant.

Same with questions about specific powers. What if you choose to never take that a specific power?

That right there tells you that most of those questions are VERY subjective. There is no one right way to play the game.

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Blazara Aura LVL 50 Fire/Psi Dom (with 125% recharge)
Flameboxer Aura LVL 50 SS/Fire Brute
Ice 'Em Aura LVL 50 Ice Tank
Darq Widow Fortune LVL 50 Fortunata (200% rech/Night Widow 192.5% rech)--thanks issue 19!

I think you've typed plenty of words to prove the "crybaby" assertion (especially in your post about not being one), but whatever.

If I made it through a day being called nothing worse than a crybaby, I think I'd pinch myself.

For some content, as a player of nearly 5 years, you could have stumped me a few months ago if you'd asked if Invincibility's aura still caused travel power suppression. I've written guides, I give build advice, I spend hours in character planners, but even I don't know all this stuff. Since more often than not I'm one of the folks the people I know come to for advice, you're looking at an awfully large percentage of players who couldn't answer these.

Completely agree that the resulting broadcat spam would be hilarious.





I wonder if the people who wanted to get around this would make things like those old wheels they used to use before DRM existed. The game would ask you a question and you'd spin it around to reveal the answer before you could play.

I kinda miss those.

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If I made it through a day being called nothing worse than a crybaby, I think I'd pinch myself.

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Er... wow. I make it through pretty much every day without being called names. Maybe you need to get a different set of friends/coworkers.

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Freedom: Blazing Larb, Fiery Fulcrum, Sardan Reborn, Arctic-Frenzy, Wasabi Sam, Mr Smashtastic.

I don't mind being told my idea is a bad one.

I DO mind being insulted.

Sure, I went a little overboard in my response.

But can you honestly say you never react strongly to someone insulting you?

Had you left out the first two sentences of your first post, I would have accepted it as you disagreeing with me. No big deal.

But since those sentences were there I got a little pissed about being insulted.

A lot of times it isn't what you say, but how you say it.

I realize I probably made myself look like a dip[feces] in this thread. Oh well, it is what it is, and I'm not going to cop out and start deleting posts to cover it up.

Everyone screws up and says things they don't mean, or were poorly thought out occasionally. I'm not going to pretend it didn't happen here.

See, how about that? Someone who admits when they say something dumb. Don't see that too often (especially on these forums )

I'll try not to go off the deep end again. This really isn't worth getting that mad over.

Aura: I amended the question to read: How many levels above you can you first equip an enhancement?

The answer being 3. Whether it is a TO, DO, SO, or IO doesn't matter, you can't equip an enhancement that is more than 3 levels above yours.

You do make a good point about it being difficult to word, as I'm not sure how to phrase it so the meaning of the question is clear.

I still think the short quiz is a workable idea, but I didn't realize how difficult it would be to come up with universal, non-subjective questions for all level ranges.

I knew the answers to all the questions I posed off the top of my head. Perez connects to Steel, Skyway, Atlas, and Galaxy. You can equip and enhancement up to 3 levels higher than your combat level (you don't need to train to slot them), and Focused Fighting's base defense is 11.25%.

But, that doesn't mean everyone would know the answers. I have an analytical mind and a sharp memory, quizzes like that are easy for me. I seldom stop and remember that not everyone's mind works like mine. So, what would be a great idea for me, may not work so good for others.


Edit: Happy Birthday Aura! I missed that when I first responded.

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