Correct me if I'm wrong, but Rogue is based in pratorean earth where our bad guys are their good guys and vice versa, so it would still make perfect sense =]
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Correct me if I'm wrong, but Rogue is based in pratorean earth where our bad guys are their good guys and vice versa, so it would still make perfect sense =]
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Although there is little information - Praetoria seems to only be where the magic happens, and if you switch sides there, you get to leave Praetoria, and go to the other side. (previously villain-only ATs freely roaming about Paragon City)
Plus; we don't even know if there ARE Praetorian versions of the four patrons... I think it's been said in the past that Marcus Cole may have killed Stefan Richter at the Well of the Furies in the Praetorian universe. I think the only known villain group that is good on the other side of the portal is the Carnival of shadows (known as the Carnival of Light).
Although we don't yet have all the details - I'm guessing Tyrant (Emperor Cole?) rules Praetoria much like recluse rules the islands - but instead of a free-for-all of villainy and scum, he's developed a paradise of a (city? state? country? world?), where, despite their evil war-mongering ways, the Preatorian Arch Villains (by our standards) are the heroes (by theirs).
I'd wager that the direction your moral compass points will have a lot to do with whether you challenge the authority of the ruling body, throwing the universe into a civil war.
Or suppress rebel movements, keeping the peace - even if it means keeping the jerks in their position of power.
"My inner mind has become a reality-cracking overgod. He torments me! Help!"
I imagine the easy way will be to keep things as they are. There's no reason fallen heroes can't keep their Ancillary Pools, or atoning villains can't steal the techniques from the signature villains.
Perhaps GR will introduce Villain Ancillary Pools- and maybe Hero Patrons. Only time will tell.
Alternatively, if you've already got a patron and you switch sides. Why would your hero lose abilities he's already learned? Same with a hero and the epic pools?
By the same token, if you swap at 38, and hit 40 after having 'Gone Rogue' why couldn't you learn the stuff for your side? Especially since odds are only the content made during/after going rogue will care that you were once a villain/hero, unless there is a much more massive world update coming on the GR disc then a MMO normally gets.
I've love to see alternate Patron arcs that involve being a hero taking down your Patron and Lord Recluse to steal their powers.
Same for villains too.
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This leads into a further question. If they did go with this last choice, which sets would they have to choose from? Would they be able to choose any epics? (Doubtful?)
Would it be like this (In terms of Access to Epic sets):
Brutes = Scrapper
MM = Tankers
Corruptors = Defenders
Dominators = Controllers
Stalkers = Blasters????
That would create all SORTS of unbalance.
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I think it would go (for balance??) like this:
kheldians and blasters <--> dominators
masterminds <--> controllers
stalkers <--> scrappers
brutes and arachnos <--> tankers
corrupter <--> defender
Those pairings aren't functional equivalents but sort of closest to powerset coverage equivalents in terms of what they get in the auxiliary/patron power pools.
maybe since its an expansion there will be entirely new pools (with a lot of reused powers) including auxiliaries for villains, patrons for heroes, and those who "go rogue" will have only the auxiliaries to choose from and can't get patron pools (on both sides).
Pretty sure they'd have to modify patron and ancillary pools for other ATs so they don't have any repeat powers. They already have to do that when profilerating powersets. Also, y'know, balance.
...Kheldians don't get Ancillary pools, I doubt they'd get Patrons either. Dunno why though. I suppose Khelds already have plenty of variety in their powers.
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Correct me if I'm wrong, but Rogue is based in pratorean earth where our bad guys are their good guys and vice versa, so it would still make perfect sense =]
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See, with this, I would have to disagree
Our Bad Guys are their good guys. So, if my good guy, in this alternate world, turns bad, why would he still have access to abilities granted to those whom are good when he is bad?
I just don't think it makes sense for Villians who are redeeming themselves to have to go to people they are purposely distancing themselves from to earn their Epic abilities. That breaks character immersion for alot of people.
"HA! I've spent my entire life trying to get from under your thumb, you sick twisted Capt. Mako!"
"uH...Then why are you here?"
"Well...I kinda need more power...so uh...mind teaching me some new stuff?"
Really? 
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I've love to see alternate Patron arcs that involve being a hero taking down your Patron and Lord Recluse to steal their powers.
Same for villains too.
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This would be cool. 
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This leads into a further question. If they did go with this last choice, which sets would they have to choose from? Would they be able to choose any epics? (Doubtful?)
Would it be like this (In terms of Access to Epic sets):
Brutes = Scrapper
MM = Tankers
Corruptors = Defenders
Dominators = Controllers
Stalkers = Blasters????
That would create all SORTS of unbalance.
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I think it would go (for balance??) like this:
kheldians and blasters <--> dominators
masterminds <--> controllers
stalkers <--> scrappers
brutes and arachnos <--> tankers
corrupter <--> defender
Those pairings aren't functional equivalents but sort of closest to powerset coverage equivalents in terms of what they get in the auxiliary/patron power pools.
maybe since its an expansion there will be entirely new pools (with a lot of reused powers) including auxiliaries for villains, patrons for heroes, and those who "go rogue" will have only the auxiliaries to choose from and can't get patron pools (on both sides).
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I Bolded the part that worries me.
If they DO create new epics, I can't wait to hear all the complaining about balance on that. It'll be fantastic.
Thanks for all the replies guys!
This still kinda worries me though.
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I've love to see alternate Patron arcs that involve being a hero taking down your Patron and Lord Recluse to steal their powers.
Same for villains too.
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This would be cool.
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I think that's basically what the villain arcs end up as anyway.
And I think Castle's said that the Ancillary pools were a disaster of balance and if it were up to him he'd remake them from scratch. Patrons were originally supposed to be balanced, but well...
Actually, to be totally fair I did ask this question in the Going Rogue discussion, got a good page or two of discussing if I remember right but for lack of info the topic drifted.
I'm of the mind that it will depend what side you're on when you're coming up to that level. i.e. You're a villain who just dinged 40, ran your patron arc and took your first power. Now you switch sides and you're locked into that patron pool as you've already done what's necessary to unlock that power within yourself, so you can continue picking from that pool. HOWEVER: You decide to respec and when you get to level 40 you no longer have access to it, but rather a correspondant set of epics. This could play story-wise as you digging deep into yourself and distancing yourself from "dark" powers that you came by in a less than noble way. Could work the same way for fallen heroes. You can keep your epics but if you re-invent yourself you can show your devotion to your new cause/patron to earn more power from them.
This could also provide a fun little ditty with dual builds of having one build with a patron pool and one with an epic so you'd have ALOT of variety in your two builds, but that's another story all together.
I for one am hoping that if nothing else, we get a load of new epics. I don't care if they're brand new powers (Though a few wouldn't hurt to give us a bit of variety), I just want to see a corresponding epic for each primary/secondary set in your AT for thematic purposes. I have an energy/energy blaster that I refuse to take an epic on because it just looks stupid to me for him to fire off a slew of energy blasts and then randomly crap out a lightning bolt, or fling a shuriken (He can fire plasma from his fingers, why would he bother?). I want to be able to toggle on an energy aura shield for him, or something else from that set. Same with my Psi blaster. I'd love for her to have something along the lines of mass hypnosis to put a mob to sleep or something else from mind control. Applies to all AT's as well, just give us SOMETHING that can match our main powersets for those of us who have a bit too much logic floating in our heads for our own good. If I get that then I'll deal with however they're doled out in game, just as long as I get them.
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kheldians and blasters <--> dominators
masterminds <--> controllers
stalkers <--> scrappers
brutes and arachnos <--> tankers
corrupter <--> defender
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Kheldians don't get epics. Why would they get patrons?
I still think that they will either introduce heroic patrons that are basically identical to the villainous patrons and give the same pool. Or they will just say you have to go back over to G-Ville and do your patron's arc. Or they will just remove the arc requirement to open up the patron pools, essentially making the access to them just like the heroic epic pools and leave the patron arcs to do whenever you want and call it a night.
I wouldn't expect existing archtypes to get different epic/patron pools depending on their morality. They already have the powers semi-balanced as is...why make more work when they don't have to with already a lot on their plate with all the new zone(s) and everything else with going rogue. I could see them adding new epic and patron pools, and if they remove the patrol arc requirement, it would also make it that much easier to add more patrol/epic pools to the villains and heroes because they wouldn't have to come up with a new patron, story, and missions for it. Plus it makes it more complicated when they do switch sides, which would require a respec just switch the epic pool. Could be wrong, but thats just my 2 cents.
I am pretty sure repeated power will no longer be an issue. They have the technology to grey out powers so you cant take something if you take something else. Just look at the SoA venom grenade, Shields with claws/dual blades.
Bump and Grind Bane/SoA
Kenja No Ishi Earth/Empathy Controller
Legendary Sannin Ninja/Pain Mastermind
Entoxicated Ninja/PSN Mastermind
Ninja Ryukenden Kat/WP Scrapper
Hellish Thoughts Fire/PSI Dominator
Thank You Devs for Merits!!!!
I dunno why this came to me, but it did.
I looked around on the forums to see if anyone else asked this question and no one did. Before I ask the question though, I'll explain how it came up.
I was fiddling around on Mids, contemplating on what Primary I wanted to use in an experimental build that used all three, or just two, of the cones from the Lev. Brute Patrol Pool when I contemplated using SS with SR and I thought to myself.
"Man, SS/SR w/ Arctic Breath would make a cool Redeemed Villian."
Which brings me to my question.
How is choosing a Patron going to effect Going Rogue, I wonder.
This is, of course, a speculative question, since we do not have any more info on Going Rogue.
But, say, for example, this theoretical SS/SR brute of mine spent most, if not all, of it's career fighting his way to prove that he IS redeemed, that he is a good guy. But when it came time for Epic, he...suddenly has Captain Mako as a Patron? That wouldn't make sense. Why would someone who is fighting vigorously to redeem himself choose a bloodthirsty killer like Captain Mako as a teacher/patron for more powers.
I know you can do different arcs to get access to all the powers, but that's not the point.
If my theoretical brute crosses over, will there be no Epic powers for him? Or will he have to choose from Red Side Epics regardless of his loyalties? Or will there be special Rogue Epic sets for each AT?
Or, when they cross over, will each AT have to choose from the Epic Power Sets of their opposites? Like, would a Brute have to choose from Scrapper Epics? A Corruptor from Defender Epics?
This leads into a further question. If they did go with this last choice, which sets would they have to choose from? Would they be able to choose any epics? (Doubtful?)
Would it be like this (In terms of Access to Epic sets):
Brutes = Scrapper
MM = Tankers
Corruptors = Defenders
Dominators = Controllers
Stalkers = Blasters????
That would create all SORTS of unbalance.
Controllers having access to Surge of Power, Stalkers having two God modes (like...picking Power Surge from Electric Epic and from Electric Armor).
So, in speculation only, how do you think they are going to handle Epic Power sets with Going Rogue?