I think you should be able to deploy the stuff fast like traps. Things like the gundrone and Time bomb just take way too long. Those are my only complaints.
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Time Bomb: The biggest problem with this is that you can't control when it goes off. Find a way so that you could set it off when you wanted, and it would be great.
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if they did that they would have to call it remote detonation bomb which would chance the power entirely. as a whole i don't think the set is underpowered at all though. i have it on one of my blasters and i see it used alot in PvP.
I think a discussion sticky for devices in the blaster forum might be a good idea. It doesn't necessarily mean that devices have a problem, but such kind of suggestion comes up again and again, and people have to repeat the same thing.
For targeting drone, my personal favorite is to make a certain percentage of damage to be irresistable. It won't improve the damage for generic mobs, but it would be a great asset for tough mobs, and also make blasters with devices desirable in teams.
For gun drone, I would love to make it a mastermind-like pet, then it would have a lot of tactical uses. You can set it to be on follow in defense mode, which mimics the original behavior of gun drone. So, this would be just an extention of the current power.
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Time Bomb: The biggest problem with this is that you can't control when it goes off. Find a way so that you could set it off when you wanted, and it would be great.
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A common suggestion. Note that time bomb has a nuke-level damage. If you allow it to set off at the exact moment you want, it would be a nuke without side effect. Other nukes either drain all your endurance or have lower damage. The current time bomb has no end drain, but balanced by the setup time and the uncertainty of hitting. Improvements to time bomb need to consider such balance in the power design.
I don't know what primary you're using with Devices, but I have no problem stunning bosses with my Taser and Screech, or Taser and Beanbag, or Taser and Stunning Shot.
Like someone else said, my only complaint is cast times.
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Originally Posted by Dechs Kaison See, it's gems like these that make me check Claws' post history every once in a while to make sure I haven't missed anything good lately. |
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Like someone else said, my only complaint is cast times.
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Pretty much this. Though my complaints also include the fact that Gun Drone needs work, and I dislike the redundancy of Trip Mine and Time Bomb.
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I have an archery/devices blaster, and imho 60 seconds is too short for gun drone, ten minutes or permanent would make me remember to use it.
I didn't even bother with Time Bomb on my archery/devices blaster, it's that worthless in team play. Scrap this power and put something useful in. How about Exploding Shurikens instead?
Goldbrick 50 inv/ss tank
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Timebomb is one of the most worthless powers in the game and should be replaced by something more useful.
Replace Timebomb with Build Up and you're golden!
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I don't know what primary you're using with Devices, but I have no problem stunning bosses with my Taser and Screech, or Taser and Beanbag, or Taser and Stunning Shot.
Like someone else said, my only complaint is cast times.
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That's great if you're playing archery, AR, or sonic. If you aren't, you've got nothing to stack it with (unless you count psychic's nuke).
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I don't know what primary you're using with Devices, but I have no problem stunning bosses with my Taser and Screech, or Taser and Beanbag, or Taser and Stunning Shot.
Like someone else said, my only complaint is cast times.
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That's great if you're playing archery, AR, or sonic. If you aren't, you've got nothing to stack it with (unless you count psychic's nuke).
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It's like they designed the set around synergizing with AR or something.
Never surrender! Never give up!
Help keep Paragon City alive with the unofficial City of Heroes Tabletop Role Playing Game!
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I don't know what primary you're using with Devices, but I have no problem stunning bosses with my Taser and Screech, or Taser and Beanbag, or Taser and Stunning Shot.
Like someone else said, my only complaint is cast times.
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That's great if you're playing archery, AR, or sonic. If you aren't, you've got nothing to stack it with (unless you count psychic's nuke).
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Or Psychic's ST stun...
No
Buffalo buffalo Buffalo buffalo buffalo buffalo Buffalo buffalo
I think you underestimate our fools, sir.
Why /duel is a bad idea
I agree with the notion that Devices needs something more. I'm just not sure I agree with you on what needs more and what doesn't.
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Web grenade: I'm not sure the tradeoff of no damage for some recharge speed debuff is worth it (especially since chillblain gets both). I'd like to see this turned into a mag 4 immobilize to help even it out with the other tier 1's.
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Ice Manipulation's whole shtick is control and slow, so its immobilize gets that. Beyond that, though, Web Grenade trades damage for slow, and in my opinion it's good enough.
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Taser: A mag 3 stun is nice, but the long recharge and lack of anything to stack it with makes it hard to stun bosses, which are often the things you need to stun the most. I'm not sure exactly what should be done for this. I think what I'd like to see most is for it to be increased to a mag 4 stun, with a short duration and about the same recharge. Maybe a base of 7.5 seconds mag 4 stun with a 20 sec recharge. So if you wanted to put the slots into it, you could perma-stun bosses, but it wouldn't be all that easy.
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Stun-stacking with the same powerset isn't something you should so much as suspect, let alone expect. The only secondary that can do that is Energy Manipulation, and that degree of control was cited as one reason for concern. The set, in fact, had a mag 4 stun in Total Focus, but that was reduced to mag 3 at one point. I would seriously not expect a boss-level stun in a manipulation set. Besides that, Taser is pretty good, its limited range and fast animation make it a superior power to Stun.
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Smoke Grenade: Fine just the way it is.
Cloaking Device: Fine just the way it is.
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I don't know whether to laugh or to cry. Smoke Grenade is completely worthless and easily inferior to a whole range of powers for anything other than protecting your team-mates from perception, which isn't terribly useful given its not full protection. Its to-hit debuff is pathetic, and unless you're stacking it on top of lots of inventions set bonuses for defence, isn't worth even considering.
Cloaking Device is only marginally above useless, being functionally identical to Stealth minus the negligible run speed debuff. It provide defence, but two thirds of that suppresses as soon as you attack. Aside from stacking it with Smoke Grenade, which can be done just as well by stacking Stealth over Supoer Speed.
You may as well marry the two powers into a full-on invisibility toggle with unsuppressed defence and give the set something worth taking in place of either.
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Trip Mine: Lower the cast time and the recharge time so it's a little more friendly to use on teams, and it'd be great. Maybe lower the duration as well so you can't stack any more due to the lower recharge.
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Trip Mine's very design assumes a playstyle that the game actively dissuades - laying traps and pulling enemies in them. It works, but it's HORRENDOUSLY slow. Take it from someone who got to 50 doing that - it AIN'T worth it. If you're asking that the mine be easier to use on teams, then you may as well argue for a reimagining of the power, with which I'd actually be in agreement. I don't use it as a trap, anyway, I just use it to mine my own feet as a buffer for any pushy melee-centric enemies. Thank God friendly fire is off.
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Time Bomb: The biggest problem with this is that you can't control when it goes off. Find a way so that you could set it off when you wanted, and it would be great.
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The biggest problem with Time Bomb is that it's treated as nuke, which it isn't. It doesn't have Nuke damage, and controlling it is so crapshot it may as well be blind luck half the time. About the only good way to use it is to toebomb with, and that takes 23 seconds just for the bomb. It doesn't sound like a lot, but no team is ever going to stand back and watch you go in, plant a bomb, go back out and wait.
I'm not sure Time Bomb requires a re-imagining, as it really does work well when used well, but its 6 minute recharge and 8!!! second animation time are simply too high for a power of such situational usefulness, not to mention that cost! I suppose being able to remote-detonate it would be cool, and indeed Mastermind Detonator on thinking henchmen is, functionally, an instant-detonation Time Bomb. I would be very much for that. I'd still be mighty pissed off at the ridiculous cast time, though.
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Gun Drone: Another easy fix. Just make the duration longer or make it permanent, and lower the cast time slightly, and it's a great power.
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Gun Drone is nothing more than an endurance sink. Its cost is plain and simple not worth the limited use it has in the minute it's alive. I wouldn't support making it permanently permanent, but increasing its lifespan to at least 4-5 minutes is something I would DEFINITELY want to see. Either that, or slashing its cost SIGNIFICANTLY. That turret is NOT worth as much as it costs, so it either needs to cost less, do more or last longer.
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Targeting Drone: To help make up for the burst damage that devices lacks due to not having buildup, I'd add a small damage buff to targeting drone. Perhaps a 15-20 % buff.
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That's been suggested, but apparently dismissed by the developers, who compromised only partially, allowing Targeting Drone to give more damage to Sniper Rifle and Sniper Rifle alone. I'd like to see that, but a constant damage buff seems scary.
I DO wish they'd go forward with the planned Stealth Strike from Cloaking Device, though. That might serve to helps some.
Generally, I do agree with your general premise. Devices can do with a bit of a sprucing up.
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Originally Posted by Arcanaville
Samuel_Tow is the only poster that makes me want to punch him in the head more often when I'm agreeing with him than when I'm disagreeing with him.
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The biggest problem with Time Bomb is that it's treated as nuke, which it isn't. It doesn't have Nuke damage, and controlling it is so crapshot it may as well be blind luck half the time.
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Actually, time bomb does slightly higher damage than thunderous blast, but slightly lower than nova. I think it's at nuke level.
i have an ice/devs RV bomber, i love when i get someone with my tripmine tp foe combo XD
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The biggest problem with Time Bomb is that it's treated as nuke, which it isn't. It doesn't have Nuke damage, and controlling it is so crapshot it may as well be blind luck half the time.
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Actually, time bomb does slightly higher damage than thunderous blast, but slightly lower than nova. I think it's at nuke level.
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That depends on what you're counting. Time Bomb does 278.05 damage, while Nova does 375.36, all components considered and Thunderous Blast does 312.8. Thunderous Blast, however, is usable at range and has other serious components, like endurance drain to the targets and not a complete drain on the Blaster, from what I'm seeing in the numbers. I don't think I had it on mine.
Yes, Time Bomb is a power in a secondary, but the huge difficulty and, above that, huge delay to using it simply ensures that few people use it even for toe bombing. I use it and I like it, of course, but even I will admit it's a gigantic pain to do so.
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Originally Posted by Arcanaville
Samuel_Tow is the only poster that makes me want to punch him in the head more often when I'm agreeing with him than when I'm disagreeing with him.
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Thunderous Blast, however, is usable at range and has other serious components, like endurance drain to the targets and not a complete drain on the Blaster
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Actually, TB DOES completely drain when you fire it...BUT...it has the chance to give you back endurance, which, if you hit enough targets, generally gives you about 10 endurance back.
So, functionally you are correct, but not for the reason you seem to have thought.
If you fire TB and only hit one target you stand a good chance of being completely drained. But...who fires their nuke at ONE target anyway?
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Originally Posted by Dechs Kaison See, it's gems like these that make me check Claws' post history every once in a while to make sure I haven't missed anything good lately. |
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If you fire TB and only hit one target you stand a good chance of being completely drained. But...who fires their nuke at ONE target anyway?
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Someone COMPLETELY AWESOME! 
Seriously, though, I haven't used Thunderous Blast myself (I think) so I knew I was probably wrong. City of Data lists it as costing 15 points of endurance and then draining another 40, so I didn't know what to think.
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Originally Posted by Arcanaville
Samuel_Tow is the only poster that makes me want to punch him in the head more often when I'm agreeing with him than when I'm disagreeing with him.
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The biggest problem with Time Bomb is that it's treated as nuke, which it isn't. It doesn't have Nuke damage, and controlling it is so crapshot it may as well be blind luck half the time.
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Actually, time bomb does slightly higher damage than thunderous blast, but slightly lower than nova. I think it's at nuke level.
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That depends on what you're counting. Time Bomb does 278.05 damage, while Nova does 375.36, all components considered and Thunderous Blast does 312.8. Thunderous Blast, however, is usable at range and has other serious components, like endurance drain to the targets and not a complete drain on the Blaster, from what I'm seeing in the numbers. I don't think I had it on mine.
Yes, Time Bomb is a power in a secondary, but the huge difficulty and, above that, huge delay to using it simply ensures that few people use it even for toe bombing. I use it and I like it, of course, but even I will admit it's a gigantic pain to do so.
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For nova, you do get a total damage of 375.36 if you add up all the numbers. Note that 375.36 is the maximum possible damage. There is a 75% chance for the 93.84 damage, and 50% chance for another 93.84 damage. If you factor in the probability, the average damage per mob is around 305. Not all the nukes have the same damage as they have different properties. In my opinion, the damage of time bomb is similar to a nuke. It's ok for me if you think otherwise. I agree that time bomb is hard to use.
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Time Bomb: The biggest problem with this is that you can't control when it goes off. Find a way so that you could set it off when you wanted, and it would be great.
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if they did that they would have to call it remote detonation bomb which would chance the power entirely
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Well, assuming they want to keep it a "time" bomb, how about showing the countdown to detonation over the bomb (in the place where the damage spam would go) in the same way we get the countdown numbers for PVP in a PVP zone or Arena match? "6, 5, 4, 3, 2, 1...!!!!!!!!!!"
That would go a long way toward enabling you to coordinate things with the bomb. Presumably teammates could see it also. Don't know if you could make it invisible to PVP enemies, but even if you couldn't, it's not like there's a lot of people using Time Bomb in PVP who'd complain, is there?
Then I'd still want a shortening of the huge delay. Both these changes and it might be a much more useful power.
If we are to die, let us die like men. -- Patrick Cleburne
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The rule is that they must be loved. --Jayne Fynes-Clinton, Death of an Abandoned Dog
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it's not like there's a lot of people using Time Bomb in PVP who'd complain, is there?
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Ok, placed my bomb. Now, hopefully that Stalker will only try to AS me while I stand here at juuuust the right moment...
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It works, but it's HORRENDOUSLY slow. Take it from someone who got to 50 doing that - it AIN'T worth it.
[/ QUOTE ] This, so very, very much this.
I've seen some folks suggest using the trip mine in a fight when on teams but I've never had much luck with that since AoE will interrupt me and really, most things end up dead too fast for it to make much difference anyway.
But yea, I'm pretty much QFTing here all things considered.
MA Arcs: Yarmouth 1509 and 58812
To me, the problem is that the support for setting up traps in this game is so very, very limited and the time invested in setting them up will NEVER be worth it or bring an equivalent return in the end. I can't say if setting up the bombs is too slow or if they don't do enough damage, but the cost-to-return ration just isn't there.
I don't know what could be done about this. A lot of these powers' drawbacks come from the want to enforce their use outside of combat, making them slow and awkward to use IN combat. Even assuming you could convince a team to sit on their hands while you mine and pull, however, the return is going to be less than what the team could have done in the same time if they'd just gone out and shot the things dead. Hell, even the Devices Blaster himself can do more damage in less time than it takes to lay down and detonate a Time Bomb. Oh sure, it's safer that way, but you're trading a LOT of speed for that safety.
Personally, if I were looking for an abstract solution, I'd make both Trip Mines and Time Bombs NOT placable when an enemy is within 10 feet of you. Simply having an enemy present should interrupt them. In return, however, Trip Mines would do a lot more damage or have less recharge, and Time Bomb would be detonatable. Just make it targetable and let me shoot it. Simple enough.
*edit*
And while we're at it, could we maybe make the Time Bomb a bit more impressive than "Trip Mine with an antenna?" If we're going to be targeting it, it would do well to be a bit bigger anyway.
*edit*
As well, if it'll be triggerable, it might do well for it to have an even longer timer. If you can trigger it early, it makes no sense for it to risk self-detonating early.
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Originally Posted by Arcanaville
Samuel_Tow is the only poster that makes me want to punch him in the head more often when I'm agreeing with him than when I'm disagreeing with him.
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My opinions:
Taser: You can stack it with Beanbag, if you've got the rifle primary. As is, it will still stun a lieutenant in a single shot. Wouldn't mind a range boost, though.
Trip mine: No complaints about it, it's remarkably useful both solo and on teams, especially combined with invisibility-grade stealth.
Time Bomb: Too damn slow to deploy and too slow to detonate. Cut both by half and take it from there.
Gun Drone: The constant need to redeploy it makes it frustrating to use. Thus, what I propose is keeping the deployment endurance cost, but making it a toggle with a constant endurance drain while the turret is out.
Trip mines already have a fairly incidental recharge for what they are. I especially don't see the point of a lower recharge if you'd have to place them out of combat away from enemies in the first place, what would you need the recharge for then anyway? Most of the drag there is the animation time if you ask me.
But anyhoo, I'd not really be happy with the out of combat idea largely because I really don't see how it would in any way, shape or form aid my performance in a team. I already somewhat feel like a third wheel in teams when I'm there with another blaster as an energy/dev (as compared to say, a fire/energy or even an energy/energy really). Even if the mine did more damage that way I've run into precious few teams that really are up for the whole 'pulling back' idea when they can just push forward en mass with little to no danger of death.
What I think would be interesting is if they could finagle it so that if you were within melee range (or possibly very slightly out of it) and had an enemy targeted, you'd just sort of toss a mine at them which would go off for less AoE damage than normal (since it wasn't set up properly or somesuch). Doubt something like that would ever happen though.
MA Arcs: Yarmouth 1509 and 58812
The trip mines are pretty good for defending the reactor core in the respec trial. Maybe the time bomb can use some improvements, I bet the trip mines will be just left as it is. The game can have more contents like respec trial, then something like trip mines (and other situational powers) can be put to good use.
Another popular thread right now has been discussing what powersets are thought to be weaker than the others. One of the ones that's come up a lot is devices. Some people think it's fine the way it is, while others think it falls far behind the other blaster secondaries. Personally, I think that it has a lot of potential, and I like the fact that it plays very differently than many other sets, but I think it could use some work.
So this thread is meant to offer my suggestions for how it could be improved, and for other people to offer theirs as well. If you think devices is fine the way it is and doesn't need changed, I respect that opinion, but this thread's not for you. I really hope this doesn't turn into a does it or doesn't it need changed argument.
With that out of the way, my suggestions.
Web grenade: I'm not sure the tradeoff of no damage for some recharge speed debuff is worth it (especially since chillblain gets both). I'd like to see this turned into a mag 4 immobilize to help even it out with the other tier 1's.
Caltrops: don't think this needs anything done at all. A great power.
Taser: A mag 3 stun is nice, but the long recharge and lack of anything to stack it with makes it hard to stun bosses, which are often the things you need to stun the most. I'm not sure exactly what should be done for this. I think what I'd like to see most is for it to be increased to a mag 4 stun, with a short duration and about the same recharge. Maybe a base of 7.5 seconds mag 4 stun with a 20 sec recharge. So if you wanted to put the slots into it, you could perma-stun bosses, but it wouldn't be all that easy.
Targeting Drone: To help make up for the burst damage that devices lacks due to not having buildup, I'd add a small damage buff to targeting drone. Perhaps a 15-20 % buff.
Smoke Grenade: Fine just the way it is.
Cloaking Device: Fine just the way it is.
Trip Mine: Lower the cast time and the recharge time so it's a little more friendly to use on teams, and it'd be great. Maybe lower the duration as well so you can't stack any more due to the lower recharge.
Time Bomb: The biggest problem with this is that you can't control when it goes off. Find a way so that you could set it off when you wanted, and it would be great.
Gun Drone: Another easy fix. Just make the duration longer or make it permanent, and lower the cast time slightly, and it's a great power.
I realize that making all these changes would probably make the set overpowered, but choosing a few select ones would go a long way I think towards removing the perception that it's underpowered.