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A test to prove my claim would be simple... have every primary fire each of their ST attacks at identical targets once, and add up the damage.
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That doesn't show which one has better DPS. In fact, it doesn't show any worthwhile metric at all.
The fact of the matter is that DPS>All. DPS is what determines how fast you solo, DPS is what determines how much damage to contribute to a team. Simply adding up the damages on a bunch of powers with no respect for how long it takes to actually deliver that damage is, quit frankly, pointless.
So you'll have to forgive me for interpreting "The Most ST Damage" in a way that is mathematically useful, and not in the way that makes you seem right.
I thought I was pretty clear in saying that my statement was NOT in reference to DPS.
DPS tests come a dime a dozen here on the forums... which is the only place they > all mind you. You can convince yourself that this game is played on paper under controlled settings all you want. It doesn't make my arguement fall. As I said you can have you DPS charts and say whatever set you want has the most DPS. It wont change the pretty obvious fact that Grav/ is designed to do ST damage more so that any other Control set.
It won't hurt you to agree. I promise.
"Situational power? Sure. Although in a sense... all powers are situational. It's just that some situations occur more than others." Understand the situation needed in order for the power to be most effective... and make that situation happen.
I agree that Grav was designed to do the most ST damage.
Unfortunately, it doesn't achieve that performance. Either on paper or in game.
Thats pretty good ,Dahjee. I am really happy someone finally brought up the point that what looks good on paper can play very differently than the paper numbers or" data" shows. Thank you.
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I agree that Grav was designed to do the most ST damage.
Unfortunately, it doesn't achieve that performance. Either on paper or in game.
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Says you. Who admittedly doesn't have a grav// dominator.
"Burst Damage" is generally only meaningful in pve when it defeats the target.
I don't think lift+propel does that past lvl 4 or 5.
In which case dps is generally a much more applicable metric.
Under low recharge grav looks great, but it is hard bound by animation times (propel in particular) that prevent it from scaling as well as other sets.
For doms in particular propel is actually a hindrance as the assault powers tend to be much better DPA, which you can't use if you are stuck animating propel.
edit: that isn't to say that grav can't produce good damage, lift is very nice and most of the powers take the slow proc which can be beneificial.
Ok and how many players do you know with access to gravity that take propel anyway? I don't know a single one. Propel is not only a subpar power it is flatout useless.
I am beginning to think the devs plant you people to pick apart a set at a time while pretending to be the "casual" player. W ouldn't surprise me one whit at this point.
I certainly never said any other grav powers were garbage, heck I even really like dim shift.
I think we are in agreement that propel is horrid, but propel is why so many people think gravity has superior damage output. It hits kind of hard, looks wicked, but takes forever and a day to cast.
If not for propel then what leads people to state that grav has superior st damage?
I think it has very good st damage due in no small part to new lift, but that just happened a few days ago, whereas the belief that it is superior damage has been long running.
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I agree that Grav was designed to do the most ST damage.
Unfortunately, it doesn't achieve that performance. Either on paper or in game.
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Says you. Who admittedly doesn't have a grav// dominator.
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When did I admit that? I've had a grav dom since I bought the game over two years ago.
I thought burst damage was simply the application of damage upfront and in one "burst" as opposed to DoT, and meaningful to anyone looking for powers that that do more damage than others. I'm just a simple man.
I can agree to the findings of any solid DPS testing and I can undestand it's standing as a standard metric, but there's just something wrong when the tests done are done in a fashion so far from gamplay.
What happens when ST DPS is calculated vs. 2 targets instead of 1? Versus 3?
What happens without stamina...
What happens when DPS is calculated into DPE?
A ST DPS test reflects only that: possible damage per second. It, more often than not, does not relfect a more realistic in-game scenario in which an AoE heavy set will not spend it's time, effort, and slots to defeat foes with ST attacks from it's primary.
I am NOT disputing the well known facts of which sets CAN deliver the most damage overall or even ST damage overall.
I am simply stating that Grav/ can and should spend more of its time focused on ST damage more than the others... that it has the tools to do it more so than the other control primaries... That doing so is (or should be) just as much a part of a Grav/ dom's playstyle as it is to a Fire/ dom that uses additional damage for mitgation via secondary effects and AoEs.
I originally stated that "most damage" by my defintion was not based on DPS.
I feel as though Grav/ being ST heavy on damage and mititgaton, 3 AoE "Hard Control" powers, and a control/damage pet is a fair trade for no soft control. It's a playstyle preference. I've leveled and played many other doms as well... every other dom actually... (except plant, but rolled plant on test and as a troller on live) I don't come to the boards with opinions of whats best, better, or useless. I will chime in to OPs that are looking for highlights of a build or help with style of play, troubles with what to do with such powers etc...
I admit it was a mistake to say the phrase "Grav/ does the most ST damage." People interpret the way they want and I could of done a better job of distinguishing my definition from the standard.
"Situational power? Sure. Although in a sense... all powers are situational. It's just that some situations occur more than others." Understand the situation needed in order for the power to be most effective... and make that situation happen.
I got my grav/nrg up to lvl 10. Without propel trained, I had more attacks than I needed to make a chain. I had no hasten or recharge bonus.
I can't see the need for a primary with several attacks, when I have more than I need. I think I'll try some others.
Yay you for playing to lvl10!!!What it take ...45 mins? i really hope you are enjoying your dom and plan to lvl her// him to 50 and contribute to late game dom carnage!!!!
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Yay you for playing to lvl10!!!What it take ...45 mins? i really hope you are enjoying your dom and plan to lvl her// him to 50 and contribute to late game dom carnage!!!!
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I rarely play a character past 32. I find the higher level game boring. It isn't a skill game, it is just a power game.
the teen and 20's is really the sweet spot for the game.
if you need to play level 50's, by all means do. But I find the higher levels distinctly lacking in challenge and interest.
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1: All sets (except Ill and sometimes Mind) benefit from Containment equally. Any effect it has on the data is negligible, since it has the same effect across the board. If you really want to, add ~3-5 DPS to the Mind and Ill scores to compensate.
2: Since the tests were all done against a single target, why does it matter if Hotfeet and AoE powers were used? The DPS measured is still single target.
3: Please follow Ditzy's advice and provide Data to back up your claims.
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I'd rather not go down this road...
I think I see what's happening. You're looking to say that Fire/ and pre-I15 Mind/ Doms can put out damage faster than a Grav/ Dom can to the same target. A tested conclusion that I can agree with and respect, but its not a conclusion that makes my statement false in any way. You can spam a ST hold and immobile back to back all day, but it won't make the combination of the two powers alone add up to the combination of identical ST powers plus two more ST attacks. (One of which deals more burst damage than any other power found in control primaries) Grav/ has a ST attack chain of it's own attainable by level 6.
A test to prove my claim would be simple... have every primary fire each of their ST attacks at identical targets once, and add up the damage.
I think it is unrealistic to expect control primaries with just the ST hold and immobile to slot them for damge instead of control. Usually these sets have AoE damage to make up for what they lack in ST damage. Gravity has only it's AoE immobilize, but offers more ST attacks than any other set. It's likely that most players, especially those with controller backround (like the OP) will slot their ST mez powers for control, and their ST attacks for damage.
The data I used can be found on the player creation screen when scrolling though the dominator primaries.
Some hear "most damage" and think DPS, and some think about the orange numbers floating above... sometimes it's like we debate the quality of burgers and fries, before we discuss the quality of the cows and potatoes they come from.
"Situational power? Sure. Although in a sense... all powers are situational. It's just that some situations occur more than others." Understand the situation needed in order for the power to be most effective... and make that situation happen.