LF advice on the pinnacle of solos

So here I am, slightly frustrated and VERY tired of riffing through page after page of thread results pulled from searches including various combinations of the words GM, killer, build, guide, and solo. What have I found for my trouble? debates on whether team or solo gaming is better, endless threads on AV soloing build debates, and a few threads discussing GMs(who's the toughest, what ones aren't fought anymore, can we get some new ones, which one has the best beach body this summer... OK, so maybe the last one is an exaggeration, but the rest are still just as unhelpful in my quest.) That's right, I'm not interested in the usual AV solo thread. And I'm sure that I'm not the only one intrigued by the idea of taking it up a notch... This thread's intent purpose is to draw out the advice of those who either have achieved or are interested in pursuing the pinnacle of solo achievements.

And while I do understand that soloing a Giant Monster is something that there might only be a few who have accomplished, I KNOW that there ARE at least a few. And besides, it's likely that with the plethora of "AV killers" and data mining fanatics out there, surely enough quality advice can be pooled together to make the conceiving of the impossible possible.

So...

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More to kill here. -- Kicks N Giggles(Arch/Elect Blaster)
Arrest not kill -- Anonymous
Funny thing, I seem to have left my handcuff arrow in my other pants. I DO have plenty of pointy sticks though... -- KNG

If you're looking to solo a GM (and only a few are really soloable), I believe that a Rad/Sonic Defender is for you. Though, to be honest, even those that I've seen with that pair have used a Shivan.

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Let me never fall into the vulgar mistake of dreaming that I am persecuted whenever I am contradicted.
~Ralph Waldo Emerson

"I was just the one with the most unsolicited sombrero." - Traegus

Illusion/Radiation is another top combo for soloing most anything. I recall Ultimus (I think it was him) posting pictures of him soloing Lusca over the course of several hours and crap loads of inspirations (but no Shivan/temps, IIRC).

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I have to say that it's actually kind of surprising that neither suggestion made yet has been a Mastermind! LOL

After you posted it, KitsuneKnight, I've actually had a lot of other people mention Ill/Rad trollers as possibilities. That's DEFINITELY a build I'm going to research more. Thank you!

Has anyone else had experiences with soloing GMs or know of others who have done it?

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More to kill here. -- Kicks N Giggles(Arch/Elect Blaster)
Arrest not kill -- Anonymous
Funny thing, I seem to have left my handcuff arrow in my other pants. I DO have plenty of pointy sticks though... -- KNG

I've never soloed one, but I've heard of people doing it. The only builds I know personally to have done it are:

Rad/Sonic Defender
Illusion/Rad Controller
Bots/Traps Mastermind

Of those three, the Illusion/Rad is by far the best at it since they are the only ones who can solo pretty much any GM, including Lusca. Bots/Traps MMs have soloed some but I don't think they can take all of the redside ones. A Sonic/Rad Corruptor might also be able to solo a GM, since the Defender version can.

Whichever route you go, you'll need a phenomenally expensive build. If Ill/Rad, you'll need Phantom Army up full time, which requires a ton of recharge, and I suspect you'll also need significant recovery (like the uniques). For a Rad/Sonic or Sonic/Rad you'll probably be shooting for a perma-Hasten, perma-AM build as well as softcapped ranged defense, again with massive +recovery. Bots/Traps would be the cheapest, but even there you'll need softcapped defense and recovery boosts, and you will probably have the lowest number of soloable GMs.

If you want to solo as many giant monsters as you possibly can, I'd suggest a fully purpled out Illusion/Rad Controller... take down all the blueside GMs you can, then when Going Rogue arrives flip him over to redside and do the same there.

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Cascade, level 50 Blaster (NRG/NRG since before it was cool)
Mechmeister, level 50 Bots / Traps MM
FAR too many non-50 alts to name

[u]Arcs[u]
The Scavenger Hunt: 187076
The Instant Lair Delivery Service: 206636

For what it's worth, the build I keep hearing mentioned for GMs is Illusion/Rad.

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take down all the blueside GMs you can, then when Going Rogue arrives flip him over to redside and do the same there.

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You nailed that one dead on, StrykerX. Whether the build starts me on blue or red side, the plan is to solo all of the GMs on one and then move to the other! A few questions for you all though...

Until starting this thread, the only build I had ever heard of soloing a GM was a Thugs/Dark MM. This strikes me as odd because it hasn't even warranted a mention so far. Has it just been forgotten in the previous posts or are the builds listed so far really that much more effective as GM slaying builds?

Ill/Rad is obviously taking the highest nomination so far, but as I sit here looking at the build in MIDs' I still find myself dumbfounded as to how that can be... Obviously Phantom Army being indestructible should take care of the character's survivability as long as PA holds the aggro, but do the Illusion Control pets really do that much damage? PA's description says that their damage "is illusory and will heal if the victim survives long enough", much like Spectral Wounds. So how is it that a GM could actually be killed by something that is only described as doing short term damage? Is the description misleading or am I missing something?

In regards to the Rad/Sonic and Sonic/Rad builds, what would keep the character alive? All I see in the build itself is a heal, a slow movement, a tohit debuff, and a damage debuff. Those aren't, by themselves, capable of mitigating all of a GM's damage, are they?

And what of the Bots/Traps MM... It seems very promising, but I find myself very confused that the only MM build suggested, so far, is the least recommended. Why is that? Also, if I were to use a Bots/Traps build, does anyone have any advice on how to play it? I know that using bodyguard mode and a taunt is normally highly recommended in a battle with such a powerful single target, but how would that mesh with Traps? After all, two of its seemingly very useful abilities require the character to be in melee range and one of them is interruptible... Or is Trip Mine not worth the trouble?

Thank you all very much for the great advice so far!

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More to kill here. -- Kicks N Giggles(Arch/Elect Blaster)
Arrest not kill -- Anonymous
Funny thing, I seem to have left my handcuff arrow in my other pants. I DO have plenty of pointy sticks though... -- KNG

With my fire/kin I can only solo Paladin or Babbage so far. Babbage is actually a little easier, as he keeps summoning up more and more clockwork to use as fodder for Fulcrum Shift. I just ignore the ones he summons when attacking and let them fuel the damage bonuses against Babbage himself. Both Clockwork GMs are very, very easy though.

The KB from the foot stomp of most of the others tends to send my imps flying to the far reaches of the zones however. That has kept me from really pushing my attempts against other GMs after a series of stalemates vs Adamastor, Eochai, Kraken, or Jack.

I think Jack's terror attack was what kept me from making a lot of progress there. Every time he started to get down to the 3/4 mark on his HP bar, he'd usually get me and the imps with that, which killed all the momentum I'd built up.

Phantom Army wouldn't have these issues though, I'd presume. With this difference, I'd suggest illusion as the primary for a troller that intends to solo all the GMs. For secondary, I'd guess rad would be better than kin, if for no other reason than the debuffs are mostly toggles that don't require constant reapplication.

I have not yet tried soloing the GMs on red side.

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PA's description says that their damage "is illusory and will heal if the victim survives long enough", much like Spectral Wounds.

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Can't remember off the top of my head exactly how the damage works (been a while since I've played either of my Illusion Controllers), but the amount healed is not enhanced by Damage enhancements, so PA does in fact do damage (can't remember if it still does permanent damage even before enhancemnts or not). The Phantasm also does damage, as well as having Spectral Wounds (very good damage when enhanced), as well as your APP powers.

I think the key thing you're over looking is Lingering Radiation, it includes a very nice -regen, which means that the amount of damage you actually have to do per second is MUCH lower. Having Enervating Field will also make all your attacks do more damage, as it includes a -res component (even for PA). Illusion/Radiation is definitely one of, if not the top GM soloing builds in the game.

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Of those three, the Illusion/Rad is by far the best at it since they are the only ones who can solo pretty much any GM, including Lusca

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Lusca is not the hardest one to solo. I have never seen a Ill/Rad troller solo a DE Monster or a Kronos Class Titan. People have said they did but never have pics. My brother has try with his Ill/Rad and can put a dent into a DE Monster and he can solo other GM.

Now Silverado has solo DE monster with his Bots/Traps-MM and his Fire/Traps Corruptor. So I would say they would be the best.

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Phantom Army wouldn't have these issues though, I'd presume. With this difference, I'd suggest illusion as the primary for a troller that intends to solo all the GMs. For secondary, I'd guess rad would be better than kin, if for no other reason than the debuffs are mostly toggles that don't require constant reapplication.

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More to the point with /Rad, though, is that it has the only way to buff the damage of Phantom Army, by debuffing the resistance of the GM. With /Kin you can buff the snot out of your Phantasm, but you can't do anything for PA.

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"But in our enthusiasm, we could not resist a radical overhaul of the system, in which all of its major weaknesses have been exposed, analyzed, and replaced with new weaknesses."
-- Bruce Leverett, Register Allocation in Optimizing Compilers

Awesome, KitsuneKnight, thank you for the info!

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My brother has try with his Ill/Rad and can put a dent into a DE Monster and he can solo other GM.

Now Silverado has solo DE monster with his Bots/Traps-MM and his Fire/Traps Corruptor. So I would say they would be the best.

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BrokenPrey, I'm kinda' lost with one. I'm not familiar with a GM with the initials "DE" and can't think of any GMs that could be fought by both hero and villain ATs other than Winter Lord, Jack in Irons, Eochai, and the Arachnos Flyer. So what is the "DE Monster" you're talking about and where would I find it?

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More to kill here. -- Kicks N Giggles(Arch/Elect Blaster)
Arrest not kill -- Anonymous
Funny thing, I seem to have left my handcuff arrow in my other pants. I DO have plenty of pointy sticks though... -- KNG

He's talking about the Devouring Earth Monsters (not Giant Monster class, "just" Monster class). You can find them in the north end of Peregrine Island (on the northern islands, not the one with the Rikti Monkeys), The Abyss (red)/The Hive (blue), and Monster Island (red).

Unlike most of the "Giant" Monsters, these are actually pretty freaking huge. They drop the special Essense of the Earth inspiration used in the Hamidon Raid (done in the Hive on blue side, The Abyss on red side).

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I don't know how I overlooked the Devouring Earth Monsters. Thank you for the info, KitsuneKnight and BrokenPrey!

So does anyone have thoughts on the Thugs/Dark MM build or info on any other confirmed GM soloing builds?

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More to kill here. -- Kicks N Giggles(Arch/Elect Blaster)
Arrest not kill -- Anonymous
Funny thing, I seem to have left my handcuff arrow in my other pants. I DO have plenty of pointy sticks though... -- KNG

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I don't know how I overlooked the Devouring Earth Monsters. Thank you for the info, KitsuneKnight and BrokenPrey!

So does anyone have thoughts on the Thugs/Dark MM build or info on any other confirmed GM soloing builds?

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thugs/traps, not thugs/dark

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Until starting this thread, the only build I had ever heard of soloing a GM was a Thugs/Dark MM. This strikes me as odd because it hasn't even warranted a mention so far. Has it just been forgotten in the previous posts or are the builds listed so far really that much more effective as GM slaying builds?

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I don't know that they're more effective, just more popular (so more people have heard of them). The problem with Thugs/Dark is that Dark has less -regen than some other builds, and you pretty much can't kill a giant monster with damage alone... you need -regen and lots of it. Thugs do hit hard, and Dark has -resist, but I'm not sure Thugs/Dark can hit hard enough to outdamage certain GMs' regen even with the debuffs.

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Ill/Rad is obviously taking the highest nomination so far, but as I sit here looking at the build in MIDs' I still find myself dumbfounded as to how that can be... Obviously Phantom Army being indestructible should take care of the character's survivability as long as PA holds the aggro, but do the Illusion Control pets really do that much damage? PA's description says that their damage "is illusory and will heal if the victim survives long enough", much like Spectral Wounds. So how is it that a GM could actually be killed by something that is only described as doing short term damage? Is the description misleading or am I missing something?

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About 40% of the base damage heals back, but none of the enhanced damage does. Fully slotted for damage you're only losing 20% or so to healing, and the remaining 80% is still higher than most Controller attacks. However, the real key is the Phantom Army... you can't solo anything if you can't stay alive, and perma-PA means that pretty much nothing can kill you. Add in the massive regen debuffs from Rad and you can overcome pretty much any GM's regen... eventually. Note that you will take a long time to kill some though... as much as several hours in extreme cases (Lusca). I think several take between one and two hours of nonstop attacking.

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In regards to the Rad/Sonic and Sonic/Rad builds, what would keep the character alive? All I see in the build itself is a heal, a slow movement, a tohit debuff, and a damage debuff. Those aren't, by themselves, capable of mitigating all of a GM's damage, are they?

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Hover plus softcapped Ranged and AoE defense. And some luck.

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And what of the Bots/Traps MM... It seems very promising, but I find myself very confused that the only MM build suggested, so far, is the least recommended. Why is that? Also, if I were to use a Bots/Traps build, does anyone have any advice on how to play it? I know that using bodyguard mode and a taunt is normally highly recommended in a battle with such a powerful single target, but how would that mesh with Traps? After all, two of its seemingly very useful abilities require the character to be in melee range and one of them is interruptible... Or is Trip Mine not worth the trouble?

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When I solo AVs on my Bots/Traps, I spam Challenge and Web Grenade to keep them stationary and attacking me (and not my bots). Triage Beacon takes care of most of the healing, plus Aid Self if need be (I have 40% ranged defense so getting it off is easy). I only get in melee range to drop a Poison Trap, and with Bodyguard I can survive one melee hit. The key is to keep the bots on Defensive Stay, not Defensive Follow... you want them standing on the far edge of your Triage Beacon from you so they get the regen but are out of AoE splash range. As for Trip Mine, it's not worth the risk to me... takes too long to use, leaving you open to more than one melee attack and risking your taunt wearing off.

I'd actually go with Thugs/Traps before Bots/Traps for GMs... it's more expensive to softcap but Thugs do more damage to single targets and Enforcers can slot Achilles' Heel procs for more -resist. Bots are great but the only thing that beats Thugs on single target damage is Ninjas, and good luck keeping those alive against giant monster PBAoEs.

I actually think a Sonic/Rad or Sonic/Traps Corruptor might be the best bet offensively, the only question is... can they survive long enough? That's why I recommended Ill/Rad... it's the only build I know of that is pretty much never going to be in danger of faceplanting due to a lucky two hits in a row landing. Even with softcapped defense, over the course of an hour long (or more) fight there are plenty of chances to have a bad streak and get flattened.

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Cascade, level 50 Blaster (NRG/NRG since before it was cool)
Mechmeister, level 50 Bots / Traps MM
FAR too many non-50 alts to name

[u]Arcs[u]
The Scavenger Hunt: 187076
The Instant Lair Delivery Service: 206636

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Unlike most of the "Giant" Monsters, these are actually pretty freaking huge. They drop the special Essense of the Earth inspiration used in the Hamidon Raid (done in the Hive on blue side, The Abyss on red side).

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And unlike most of the "Giant" Monsters, these are actually hard to kill (especially the giant shrooms with the sleeps and confuses)

And as always, if you're interested in seeing GM soloing screenshots you can see them here (defender), here (mastermind), or here (corruptor).

Most of these were using no temps and no insps (I'm particularly proud of soloing Lusca with no temps and not a single insp on my defender, which took about 2hrs).

A Fire/Rad Controller is in works at the moment, to complete the quartet of optimized GM killers

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Bots do have some -regen (the Plasma attacks), not that much, but it might be enough to make up for the difference in damage output for the biggest of targets.

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